Necromancy

[LoganGrimnar]

[big][orange] Okay before i get started i just would like to specify that i would prefer the opinions of GM's or from thouse that know Facts[/big][/orange]

 Okay well ive read that lucinda rules over all magic, arcane and divine, they all touch her in some way. Now Corath rules over death and undeath. So if a Necromancer disreguarded Coarth and used undead would that be... controdicting? It was said somthing along the lines of, how can your char use be a necromancer, and use the powers, but disreguard the god that grants the powers. now thats not a quote, but its was somthing along thouse lines. So i came up with the idea that a necromancer that dose not follow Corath and uses the power, is in effect deffing Corath, taking from his domain without permission you could say. Now he might not so much have a proablem with this becouse he is chaotic, and that would be chaotic, but where dose the magic really come from. My thought was that i get the power to control the dead from Necromancey, and Lucinda rules over Necromancey, Coarth rules over the dead/undead. So if you were just a necromancer your able to take comtrol of the dead, but if you followed Corath it would be somthing along the lines of a booster.

 Its really late and im very tired, so i likly skimmed over alot of what i catually hoped to gain from this post. I belive Chanda will chime in as well, to get his own questions/thoughts/comments in.

[Pankoki]

Well the answer to this is kinda simple. Corath rules over undeath and the evil act of murder and all the ugliness that comes with it. While that may involve SOME necromantic magic, it by no means is the limiting factor of what Corath would use to accomplish his objective.
  Lucinda in the other hand rules over the Weave. One aspect of it being Necromancy. Not undeath. Necromancy. Now if you notice, every spellcasting class has necromantic magic. Casting the spell Destruction has little to do with undeath, it just taps on the powers that give life and ends them. It doesn't make them into zombies, it just kills people.
  So there you have it, each god rules over their particular domain, Undeath and Necromancy being two completely different ones. One just happens to be an easy way to another.

[Aragon]

Okay let me ask you this then Pan (or any GM):

How does a god get his powers to grant to his/ her followers?  Are those powers tied directly to Lucinda, the Mother of the Weave?  Is Divine magic contolled in part by the Weave?  If Lucinda were destroyed would all Divine Magic cease to exist?  Does a god increase his "power supply" the more followers he/ she has?  

What is the Lore behind the relationship between Lucinda and Corath that develop Xeen?  I ask this and I think Chanda would have some knowledge, atleast from the Corath point of view.  Chanda received some information on this but I was later told that the "story teller" was talking out of his hind side and the tale he told was completely false.  So what happened between Lucinda and Corath and what happened to cause them to be enemies?

Necromancy - "Necromancy spells manipulate the powers of death.  Spells involving undead creatures make up a large part of this school." (PHB pg 158)
n 1: the belief in magical spells that harness occult forces or evil spirits to produce unnatural effects in the world [syn: sorcery, black magic, black art] 2: conjuring up the dead, especially for prophesying (websters dictionary)

Both of these definitions imply the usage of spirits and the dead.  So from the Layo PHB - Domains: Death, Evil, Chaos, Trickery; Governs: Death, blood, lust, murder, lies, hatred, deception

Does Corath infact govern the undead?  He is vernerated by most Demons.  If he does govern the undead we should probably include that in his description.

One last question to this ramble - When a soul dies and is permantly taken by the soul mother ( 10 tokens normally) what happens?  Does the Soul Mother consume the soul or does she pass that soul on to the god who that soul vernerated?  What if a PC doesn't have a deity, does that soul serve the Soul Mother?

*end ramble*

[Pankoki]

Lots of questions there.. I'll answer what I can:
   How does a god get his powers to grant to his/ her followers?
  Ok, this in an interesting question that normally varies from pantheon to pantheon. The way it works in DnD is that it is a symbiotic relationship. A god normally governs a particular aspect of life and by having worshipers or believers (two totally different things) their powers are empowered and it determines their influences. There are different ways of gaining godhood and effectively gaining powers. Some portfolios are stolen, some are granted, some are gained through sheer willpower, some are defaulted as racial creators. This divine influence allows then in turn for the god to grant their followers their powers. Yeah I know chicken and egg deal but thats as deep and simple as you can go without going into a silly discussion of it.
   Are those powers tied directly to Lucinda, the Mother of the Weave?
  Now, it is imporant that everyone understand that Lucinda a neutral deity. She is bound by duty to allow everyone access to the Weave, if she starts picking out favorites then it will soon be time where one of the "Good" deities decide that soon she will start cutting the power of those good deities she doesn't agree with and then a whole mess is started. So she remains neutral. True that Lucinda also has the Good part of her, but that has no bounds on who gets to touch upon the Weave, simply because anyone who taps the Weave effectively believe in her. Her good aspect can be considered in her benevolence for other things that magic can accomplish.
   Is Divine magic contolled in part by the Weave?
  Well divine magic is still magic. Leanthar made a post a while ago that was pretty clear. I can't find it or maybe it was a discussion we had in-game. But what I do know as a DM is that power of faith is granted by each god, but every spell cast through divine magic taps on the same Weave which in essence taps on Lucinda. Her neutrality however doesn't allow her to do squat about it. That doesn't mean that Lucinda controls the faith of other deities. Not in the least. Lucinda is just a tool in a very basic way. One that is used by all faiths to channel their powers.
   If Lucinda were destroyed would all Divine Magic cease to exist?
  I don't think that divine magic will cease to exist. I think that it will take time for the Weave to gain a new home however. My reasoning for this explanation is that when in one of Leanthar's quests when Lucinda was attacked EVERYONE loss their level 8 and 9 spells. EVERYONE. I think you were around. In any case. That carries a huge message there don't you think? The goddess of magic was attacked and people weren't able to use high level spells. Perhaps with time things would have normalized and a new tender of the Weave would have come along, but that is just mere conjecture.
   Does a god increase his "power supply" the more followers he/ she has?
  Yes! This is the principle of faith. The more followers the more powerful the god or goddess is.
   What is the Lore behind the relationship between Lucinda and Corath that develop Xeen?  So what happened between Lucinda and Corath and what happened to cause them to be enemies?
  Totally Leanthar knowledge. Everyone has their theories, some more out there than others. While the stories you've heard might have been entertaining. I can guarantee that the only one who knows this is Leanthar and he hasn't told anyone in-game. Pretty confident on that statement.
   Does Corath infact govern the undead?
  This is just a matter of semantics I think. Sure.. Corath governs undead, that is kinda assumed anyway. He has death also because he is a murdering freak.
When a soul dies and is permantly taken by the soul mother ( 10 tokens normally) what happens? Does the Soul Mother consume the soul or does she pass that soul on to the god who that soul vernerated? What if a PC doesn't have a deity, does that soul serve the Soul Mother?  Well this is explained somewhere in the forums as well I think, but I'll retype it here for clarity. The Soul Mother recieves a soul whenever it dies (or perms) then the god comes down and claims that soul if they are a faithful of them. The god has like 3 days to do that or something. If they are not claimed I think they just roam the Plane of the Lost. But yeah once a god claims a soul as theirs then the soul goes to the halls or realms of their deity.

[Aragon]

Wow, thanks Pan that helped answer a lot of questions and clarify some foggy issues.

[slipperhero]

Think I have to print this and hang it on the wall. Lots of good info, Pankoki.

[LoganGrimnar]

Thanks Pan for your answers, and thinks Chanda for asking the right questions. If any other GM's have anything else to say please do, the better undearstanding of this the easyer it will be to fill in hole about my char, and for others to do the same.

Another question though, is lucinda "the weave" or is she the like.. care taker of it. If she was like the guardian of the weave, and the weave was in fact its own thing, then could other gods not attempt to take control of it?

[Pankoki]

I am not sure if Leanthar wants that question to be answered. I have my knowledge on it but that is as a DM. If he feels that everyone should know it then I am sure that he can post it here.
  The only thing I do feel free to tell you is this. When Lucinda was attacked people didn't get high level spells. You draw your conclusions from that incident or wait for L to reply here.

[Leanthar]

Pan is right on with what he said. I will add one point to this:
  "...When a soul dies and is permantly taken by the soul mother ( 10 tokens normally) what happens? Does the Soul Mother consume the soul or does she pass that soul on to the god who that soul vernerated? What if a PC doesn't have a deity, does that soul serve the Soul Mother?
  Well this is explained somewhere in the forums as well I think, but I'll retype it here for clarity. The Soul Mother recieves a soul whenever it dies (or perms) then the god comes down and claims that soul if they are a faithful of them. The god has like 3 days to do that or something. If they are not claimed I think they just roam the Plane of the Lost. But yeah once a god claims a soul as theirs then the soul goes to the halls or realms of their deity...."
  When a soul arrives at the Plane of the Lost (and all souls MUST go there upon perming) they are judged by the Soul Mother.  If a soul arrives and a deity claims that soul then the soul travels on to that deities home plane to server/live with that deity.  If a soul does not get claimed OR a deity loses the claim on the soul (and yes that can happen--though it is fairly difficult--but not impossible--for a deity to lose the claim) then the soul is controlled by the Soul Mother.  Nobody knows what she does with these souls (well I do--but no living character--and perhaps any deity ) but she has complete control over those souls.  That is the most I can really answer at this time.
 
 

[steverimmer]

I've always imagined the weave as a deep well full of water.  Lucinda as caretaker of that well winds the bucket up and down giving water to all those who want to drink, irrespective of who or what they are.  She also maintains and protects the well to prevent it getting stagnant or fouled with poison etc.
  It may be an inaccurate picture but thats always how I imagined it. 
  Mind you it makes me wonder what would happen if a dwarven deity ever got control of it....instead of water, buckets of golden foaming ale and a lot of mages and clerics spending most of their time lying on their backs singing incomprehensable songs about the happy goblin

[Zhofe]

The weave is an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us, penetrates us, it binds Layonara together.

Oh ... wait ... no ... that's The Force ...