Thieves ear

[Louis D'or]

Is it on purpose the thieves cant can only translate 25 characters at a time?Becuse it really bugs me,i can see a point in it being a sign language,and one can only say so many things in an "emote",
but its kind of a paradox i think when talking in thieves cant,more then one sentence.Ex there is two people standing and for no apparent reason *shields eyes*,*scratches chin*,*looks far* and so on and so on,that would in my humble rp'opinion raise enough suspicion for it to be "useless" as a coded language for thieves,of course people wouldnt understand but still they would be suspicious towards these 2 mutes obviously standing and signaling eachother.
I would love it to be more subtle,so that you can say your piece in one "emote"
Couldnt it be made so that it could hold more characters,well atleast more then 25,count yourself its impossible to have a somewhat reasonable "conversation",even come to terms about a meeting place or the likes...

[Acacea]

They're short hand signs meant to convey quick messages, not drawn out conversation about how the wife and kids are. Sure the emotes can look a little silly, especially if you're TRYING to have the long drawn out conversation; however subtle the gestures, if you spam them, it's noticeable. Better to just use it how it is intended rather than make it suitable for small talk.

Edit-- I would love it to be more subtle, too, but no changes are necessary for players to just roleplay it better. People shouldn't be standing around signing the Cant around for chatter while just staring silently at the same time. That's just blatant and silly. I'm again more for people adjusting how they use it than changing how the actual ear works.

[Ozy_Llewellyn]

Even then the idea of a thieves cant is somewhat ridiculous. After all it exists to spot a mark, target them and adequately get away with the goods. It goes further into a bit of dialect to shift goods and discuss a possible mark. The only problem is that to prevent authorities and merchants from catching on, it must constantly evolve. Because of this very rapid evolution and constantly changing nature every region and even different parts of a city or town hold a different chant.

So like Acacea said, the purpose of the chant is very short conversations. The longer you have it the more likely someone is going to notice, in many towns even being suspected of being a thief results in you being the first investigated then executed. A thumb jerk and tapping of a wallet might be enough to indicate a good mark. A sneeze while pointing to someone indicates the gullible for a game of street cups.

Next keep in mind the chant is normally used in a crowded area where people are very unlikely to notice or care if someone is shielding their eyes from the sun. Or scratching their chin while leaning against a bar stall. Most of the chant would finally be normal conversation using keywords which of course also evolves to suit the times.

Now watch me re-write this post fifty times in an attempt to not sound like a condescending know-it-all. *Sighs* Wish me luck berks.

[Filatus]

Good luck, Ozy.

[Dorganath]

What Ozy and Acacea said is pretty much right on the mark.
  Thieves' Cant is not, nor was it ever, nor will it ever be intended to be used for long conversations. It's designed for conveying short, subtle messages. And by that, I mean both the "real" Thieves' Cant AND the mechanical in-game ear that allows its use.
  There is also an Ear for Sign Language, which is a more overt gesture-based system of communication. It too, is limited, but to something like 75 characters at a time.  Again, this was designed to convey relatively short messages, though unlike the Cant, it can convey full thoughts and such because subtlety is not a factor.

[kaiser ravenloft]

I totally agree with the use of the cant "in-game", as being a means of brief hand communicated messages, and not intended for drawn out conversation. But, I think what Louis D'or is making a reference to is the way thieves would also talk to each other when not "working" a target.....my thoughts is that the hand signals, like pointed out, are used as they should be, although thieves and "gangsters" really do have their own coded speech that you would pick up while serving "time", or from the established guild members of the town who passed the sayings down, (after all as pointed out the profession is at best frowned on).I think it would only be possible to role play that type of speech, using real life examples of "prison slang", tatoo markings, clothing appearance, etc. unless it was developed as both hand gestures and verbal cues not easily picked up by those that would not follow the thieves code.After all, most thieves would never speak in anything but the secret language when discussing work and such due to fear of informants,or to show as proof of being a thief, and the "language" would be discouraged by others trying to learn it due to the negative association with criminal activity.Real life example....search prison gangs on the internet and you will find they have practically a different language they use, that makes no sense to the outside world. Sure you could learn it.....but you could also learn Orc or Drow in the same way.

[Dorganath]

Again...the Thieves' Cant is intended not for lengthy conversations but to signal others and convey very short thoughts.
  Modern day gang signs or whatever is also very similar, being that they're intended to identify and convey short messages, not say, "Hey Frank....catch the game last night? That was some contest huh?"

[kaiser ravenloft]

No I agree with that..it's just that I was thinking of the slang of the Bronx gangs where they add "Z"'s in random form and change verbs and such to where unless you know the slang, it really does sound like another language. I have heard very indepth conversations,(I'm a police officer), that took quite a while for us to figure out by wire tap and such. I'm fine with the way the thieves cant is now...just thought that type of dialect was what Louis D'or was talking about.

[Pen N Popper]

Thief 1:  I'm off to the market then, roses for the missus. *waves hand, looks far, touches belt buckle*
Thief 2:  Jolly good, I'll tag along and pick up some bread. *nods, strokes chin, picks nose*

Translation:

Thief 1:  I take one in red, you the left.
Thief 2:  Any mixups and we meet at the bakery.

That's how I see thieve's cant working.  The real conversation hidden behind a public one.

[Dorganath]

@PnP: Well, that's almost exactly how it does work in reality...that being the conversation itself was unimportant, but the gestures conveyed the real meaning, or at least a modification of the spoken words. The latter is pretty much impossible to do in-game, so we're limited to the former.
  Taking things one step further though, two thieves in a crowd could communicate the "I'll take the one in red..." bit at a distance without actually appearing together at all, thereby making it more covert and showing no association between the two.
  On the dialect question...this is a tricky thing.
  Thieves as individuals are by nature not really a trusting group. Within a given thieves' guild, perhaps, there would be a modified system of communicating so that only other guild member could really know what was said. It's unlikely two thieves as individuals would develop such a code, and if they had, it would likely morph and change over time. If a player-run thieves' guild existed in-game, I see no reason why they would not be able to work out a system of communication that they shared privately (though it would not be in the form of a language ear most likely).

[Leanthar]

@nods to Dorg. Agreed on all you stated. I also happen to know that one deity/temple have their own in game communication code...they do it through RP and working together to learn the code.

[Louis D'or]

Thanks all for ideas and reasoning,it has been most helpfull in my understanding the cant.
I rest my case and stand "corrected"