Wail Banshee (or what ever it is called)

[Varka]

I hear you Twidget ....

No harm done - it is just a game.

[Ar7]

Many of the spells have been lowered in their efficiency, this topped with the fact that Wail is the only spell that was improved, makes it such an obvious choice for all the spellcasters out there. I would rather see it affecting everybody, just like it did before.

I will say one more thing one more time, though probably nobody ever listens, since I've been saying that for months, if not longer, with no effect. Please improve the arcane spells, the changes that have been made to evocation, Bigby's and other spells, is what pushes all the mages into melee and into using Wail. Mind you, I would rather see necromancers using Wail, illusionist Wierd, enchanters Dominate Monster (which by the way is also useless)

Remember the previous days? There were evocers, enchanters, necromancers, different mages used different spells. How many evocers can you see now, it simply is useless, same goes for Bigby's hands. And I agree with one of the previous posters, that mages are turning into those who cast mass haste, protection from spell and mind blank. Heck, if it wasn't for Wail, they would already be like that!

This was discussed months ago and when I proposed a spell progression for all spells, passed level twenty, people seemed to support it, even non arcane people, yet this proposal has somehow disappeared into the fog of the past. *sighs*

Now don't take this post like I am trying to make my character more powerful, I have been playing a wizard with all the changes and probably will continue no matter what, but it is simply becoming silly.

[miltonyorkcastle]

oi, I recall that thread, Ar7.  

@ Harlas:  My opinion, and you're entitled to yours, but isn't magic ~supposed~ to be overpowered?  Isn't that the whole point of it being Magic?  If anyone could do it, it would cease to be magic.  Magic is supposed to be powerful.  Beyond powerful even.  There's a reason people would devote their lives to it.  And why it's often feared.  Wail of the Banshee is just what it should be.  The kind of magic that all fear.  The ultimate death dealer.

again, I don't care whether it kills everyone or just enemies, because that doesn't detract from the might of the ~9th~ level spell.  It simply changes how you deal with it's use a little.

[Varka]

I agree 100% with AR7.

[Pankoki]

Alright, a little bit of history for those who were not around, or tend to forget it.
  When we moved to V2. The current version of Layonara. Very few changes were done to spells. Minimal anti-powergamish type changes to spells that come overpowered from the NWN Official Campaign. We trusted in the community to not abuse them and more importantly we wanted everyone to be able to have fun and not be bored at the world.
  For a while, all was well, we knew of a few spells that were too powerful but the community was small enough that those with the spells were responsible enough to not abuse them, for the most part. (And just as a note, this now and ahead of this includes both players and DMs, so take that as you will). However, the community grew, and it grew in humongous steps. Popularity rising and soon enough we had to go through 10+ Character Submissions a day. This had both good and bad effects. Good of course is that our world grew and more people were able to have fun in it. Bad that with the mobs there are always those that come along to abuse things.
  And abuse they did.
  For a while most complaints we were getting were from a selected few over the insane powers some mages had, workarounds systems, their ability to gather things way above their levels, ALONE. At first we talked to these invidividuals, some learned, most did not, and simply started looking for more and more workarounds in the system. Some people got banned, others were severely reprimanded, but the abuse continued. It seems that no matter what is said, some people just don't get it. And so we had to nip the problem from the bottom, which was changing the spells.
  The change was big, it wasn't a smooth transition from A to B. Nope. It was a huge step from A to 34,890. And this of course created a huge cliff for some of the old players. Likely why AR7 continuous posts in the same type of topic. But we had to make those changes. It was necessary because in the end, people to abuse systems were always going to be around and as a DM team we simply cannot bear the constant struggle of having to take time apart from Quests and Development, and of course our real lives, to deal with abusing players.
  A lot of spells are different now, the mage can't solo anymore like they could before, and this in the end is what we wanted to achieve (And even with that said, people STILL are able to solo as mages to some degree, so the problem is not completely solved, but that is just pulling at ends).
  Now. AR7, we do listen to everyone's advice and recommendations, we understand that some things can still be improved, however we can't be spending so much time on the same class over and over and over again. It's just not good for us as a development team to hit the same bug over again and get the same results from different approaches. Not to mention of course that there are more than just mages out there. We would rather build for the entire world than focus on them, that's not saying that we don't care about them, it simply means that there are more people out there that we also need to keep our sights upon and make Layonara a better place for them.
  If somewhere down the line we get time to rework spells and fix a few things here and there, I can assure you that we will review the issue. Unfortunately, right now and in the immediate future that will not happen, there are more important things that need fixing in our world and they will take priority. So the only comforting words I can give you is. Patience.

[Leanthar]

Excellent post Pankoki, right on the mark.

[miltonyorkcastle]

aye aye, cap'n

[Ar7]

That post made me look like a person who wants to empower his class. So just to make it clear, what I proposed was met for all spellcaster: druids, clerics, mages, bards and sorcerers, not wizards only. And secondly, the changes were not supposed to give wizards a lot of power and the ability to solo, just make the spells equally useful at all levels, without being overpowering.

That being said, I understand that the team is constantly swamped with other things to do, simply in my opinion these changes would greatly affect a very large part of the player community.

[iceyfire]

Perhaps im biased, but Wizards/Casters have had some interesting and harsh restrictions placed on them in Layonara, Granted Wizards and Sorc's between 15-20 they are powerhouse's that tend to have very little in terms of a equal during these levels, in realty i feel after epic levels start its when all the other classes are brought up on par with them as Wizard's Sorcs, tend to level out.
For instance, Component restriction is a very big pain especially the restrictions of Cut diamonds, diamond dust, etc being placed on the use of spells.
Furthermore crafting of the higher spells requires such fun items to gather such as Diamonds, Emeralds,Yew to craft spells.

When it come's to useful spells Wail has to be probably our best in terms of killing power.
When you think of it however us wizards and sorc's are limited when it comes to extended hunting without rest, most of one's spells get focused on buff's.
Then whats left is a few simple attack spells to throw in from time to time, in most cases i feel some of these spells do not do enough damage as you cant get to many off..
As once a Wizard/Sorc is out of spells they are pretty much useless when it comes to doing most anything besides throwing some potions on allie's.

Even the epic spells are not so useful, i mean you get one use of them per rest,sure that may help with another group but in the long run not so much..

Anyway im beginning to ramble but you get the general idea im trying to put across.
That Wizards/Sorcs are powerhouses, but this is limited, its like getting a weaponmaster to crit for 200 damage about 4 times occassionally, then sit around getting hit for the rest of it.
Burst damage is the term heh.
And yes wail is easy to save against if you place up deathwards so it is not like it is the allmighty undefendable spell..

[Acacea]

iceyfire - 5/4/2006  8:44 AM

That Wizards/Sorcs are powerhouses, but this is limited, its like getting a weaponmaster to crit for 200 damage about 4 times occassionally, then sit around getting hit for the rest of it.
Burst damage is the term heh.

Burst damage is exactly the term and exactly the idea.

And yes wail is easy to save against if you place up deathwards so it is not like it is the allmighty undefendable spell..

They're talking about making the spell affect party members as well as enemies, not really diminishing its effect on enemies.