Racial issues Rp

[Drizzlin]

Lilswanwillow - 2/7/2007  4:26 PM

you know, I'm trying.. hard.. to RP hatred.

but every time I do, I have 10 people jumping on me telling me that I need to accept them.  some say that they have also helped stop the attacks on Hlint

I am very frustrated

Well you know I'm never one of those 10 folks in game =P


If you think drow are every where now, you should have seen it a year ago. The drow population is lower today and will continue to shrink with the restrictions. This is one of the reasons L put them smack down on special races. If you want, dig that old thread up.

[AeonBlues]

You know I play a drow, and he never trusts any drow when he meets them.  He always suspects that they are plotting to put a dagger in his back.  In today's three drow going "yeah" event, I thought that was funny.  I was about to run out of Hint anyway, as I just finished one intensive RP situating being drow undead slayer trying to convince another drow that animating the dead is a bad thing.

I must say that the drow characters do catch a lot more racial hatred then other monster PCs.  When you see someone saying that your character should accept a drow, it is because there is RP history between those characters.  That being said, RPing the racial hatred that my character experiances has been a never ending burden since day 1.  He does have a strong network of friends and allies, but at the same time he continually being hated on, even by some drow that hate Az'atta.

This thread has brought two interesting memories to my mind.

Celgar,

lunchboxkilla - 11/21/2006  6:42 PM

I on the other half have this "old school" type RPing. Celgar thinks all drow should die in horrible ways and when in a foul mood broods on ideas of hurting said drow. All other races he'll veiw with some respect till they do something down right evil.

Just my 5 cents Canadian, 2.5 US.

This reminded me of the time that Celgar took young dark elfs new to layo, Cymeran Vrinn and Nepp, into Krandor crypts.  Demontrated his amazing powers by destroying all the undead, and delivered our two naive drow out of the crypts safely with the grand fathers ashes, bless his spirit.


As if all the racial hatred, and the ECL +2 was not enough....

I use to spend a lot of time playing my character on Layo.  So much time in fact that I would get a lot of XP.  Mind you, I was not leveling so quickly compared to a few extreme examples that I have seen, but I felt that my character should have an additional disadvantage to the ones that he already had.  

So, I decided that I would Roll play that he was a very dusty man. In a nut shell, I decided not to give him eschew materials.  Like a good disadvantage, it would handicap my character while enriching his RP.  By the time he reached 15th level, I came to realize two things.  One was that having to mine topaz every day of your life, is a BIG disadvantage. Oh man.  The other thing I realized is that caring all your spell components, like 30 topaz dust, 16 leather straps, 14 mushroom powders, 14 carbon powders, 20 silver dusts, 10 diamond dusts, 8 sticks of charcoal, an iron bar, and a small book to holly text has the additional factor of lagging the server when ever my character logged in.

AeonBlues

[Polak76]

lonnarin - 2/8/2007  9:40 AM

I think you guys have been doing a pretty good job so far.  Most of Kor's friends are people he dragged to the arena after threatening him in town, and he and dwarves rightly hate eachother with a passion.  I quit playing Rakish long ago because drow were too accepted in V.2...  He even wore a skull mask and a pirate suit and people would just wave and say hello and recruit him for work.  I went through all the trouble of making about 4 different fill-body disguises and aliases just to find people trusted the skull headed drow more.  As such, my interest in him kind of tapered off, though he has too much sentimental value to delete, being one of my first characters here ever.

Kor pretty much doesn't group with anybody unless they're some form of outcast freak or cultist, like Alice, Hector, Czukay, Ptol, etc... and that's the way it should be.  I don't think I've been in a single group with him and an elf, and I KNOW he and dwarves do little more than exhange insults and curse eachother in their own tongues, angrily.  Other than decadent humans, only halflings really have an open enough mind to be his ally (except Triba, who rightly threatens him) and most gnomes either run away or watch Kor with such skittish worry Grand himself could savor the fear.

It's strange though how cunning, slaving, magic adept and connving drow though aren't feared more than orcs from north of Hlint.  I mean, you'd think the verminslayer from the layo-sp campaign  would have come looking for Darilith by now with his robes of spidery doom.

I think it's the perma-loincloth from the orc skin.

Farros is an odd case as a tiefling who looks perfectly human.  It usually takes people several hours of adventuring to catch on to his obsession with curses and bleak, dismal sense of humor... but even then most just think he's just a crazy human who's had way too much to drink.  Of course he's a high-charisma bard, so I try to have him hide his true nature better than most tiefers are able to, given their fangs, tails, accents and weird skin.

Maybe I'll make a more obviously freaky and tainted one once the V3 changes come about...

Hheheehe...so it was you that used to play Rakish!  Man, he was awesome...an absolute nut-bag.
I loved how he used to drift into boastful and bizaare speeches how he was going to take on the gods etc...He was a welcome addition to Ramanon's motley crew of misfits and vagabonds.
I must thank you for the amount of enjoyment I got out of listening to him.  I remember my other comrads would send me tell's "who's this idiot?".  "This guys insane!"
I used to tell them quite the opposite and to simply enjoy his ranting and raving.

Anyway its a shame that you dont play him anymore.

Polak76

[Witch Hunter]

Gah only one in 10 people dislikes drow, where are the drow raids... where:(

[Drizzlin]

lonnarin - 2/7/2007  4:40 PM

It's strange though how cunning, slaving, magic adept and connving drow though aren't feared more than orcs from north of Hlint.  I mean, you'd think the verminslayer from the layo-sp campaign  would have come looking for Darilith by now with his robes of spidery doom.

You are right in so many ways. Keep in mind that Daralith has been on Layonara since Mid 2004. In that time he has done a lot to "work" his way into the cities and become "accepted, but hated" =). There was even a DM quest in hlint where a drow necromancer was brining undead into the town. On that quest Daralith was almost linched as the one doing it. Daralith hid behind a Toran paladin.

What a great deal of people who point fingers at how evil should be treated, forget the purpose of good. Sure there are some over zelous fanatics out there, but for the most part good aligned PCs have a higher purpose. If those PCs are lawful, they have a code that goes along with that purpose that can not be broken. Good PCs are bound by the law. Once a "good" PC starts killing everything they deem evil, without justification, they walk down a path of evil themself. Hatred? Yes. Slaughter everything in site, starting with the orc children and halfgiant babies? Come on now...

I don't feel anyone in their right mind can say that Tomas de Torquemada was a "good" Catholic.

[Leanthar]

"... Once a "good" PC starts killing everything they deem evil, without justification, they walk down a path of evil themself...."

That is a great statement that "good" PC's need to read and understand. Everything needs to have a reason and such. Otherwise why even have an alignment at all.

[Niles09]

Witch Hunter - 2/7/2007  11:46 AM

UP'chee!


I'm bringing this back in light of recent events...
Mainly because I'm shocked by the amount of (prepare yourselfs to be amazed) Drows.
Okay, some are great roleplayers and good people - but still, when my elf enters town and suddenly someone mentions the word drow and three hooded people go "Yeah I'm drow! I'm drow!" I'm rather shocked.

People seem to forget that beyond us players the world is populated by normal folk (and not just the one or two NPCs we get to see, we should assume there are much more... when I go to port Hampshire it's only visually empty, technically I see it as a hub of activity - just an example)
And how would a common person, say a human farmer, that suddenly sees a drow (especially now in the darkages) react? He was grown up being taught that Drows are nasty people that sacrafice human babes and so forth... and suddenly 3 people who he was passing by earlier announce themselves such!

And that's just from a NPC prespective,  my elf was also rather shocked and was quick to draw swords (of course, what would you expect?... ive had a few tells saying "they are much higher level than you, quit it"... what the hell??)
Suddenly you have a Toranite saying "Bla bla bla! these are good drows and you shall not harm them!" or some other thing, and a bunch of people will jump to their defence and finally the elf feels this town is mad and leaves... It's all nice and good.

But theres a limit, Drow are meant to be below ground - on the rare occasion we see them above ground it's ussualy a raid... renegade drows should be by FAR more secretive about their nature :/ and people (especially darn Toranites) should be FAAAAAAAAAR less protective of them because theres also an angry mob of farmers holding tourches and pitch forks at them


This also goes for any other "evil race"

opinions, anyone?


EDIT: Prepare for cheese!
Even Drizzt, although a hero of Icewind Dale, was never fully accepted by all... and needless to say beyond Icewind Dale (so your Drow might be a hero in Hlint... but the world is so much bigger, and againts all odds word doesn't travel that fast ya'know )

yeah Im taking it from here...

I totally agree that people thread drows way to nice, except some/few characters actually have some very good reasons to do that.
On the other side, I disagree that you (or people in general) just draw their weapons at the first drow no matter if it is 10 levels higher... think about it, if you ever met a wanted murder on the street (well ok, probaly not but just think it :p ) would you then jump at him and be the hero of they day, or get away as fast as possible? In my eyes, attacking or threatening a thing that you think is very very evil but also very strong is as bad as meeting the thing openly with a "goodday sir!"

EDIT: and like Leanther said, we have aligments.. Its not the side that seperates good from evil, its their actions. A good person might keep an eye on a drow or warn him, but attacking him unprovoked is a bad action. A neutral char might do that, but not a good one. (which by the way reminds me that its surprising how cruel and uncaring many good characters are to animals, but that is another discussion)

[Witch Hunter]

Leanthar - 2/10/2007  11:56 AM

"... Once a "good" PC starts killing everything they deem evil, without justification, they walk down a path of evil themself...."

That is a great statement that "good" PC's need to read and understand. Everything needs to have a reason and such. Otherwise why even have an alignment at all.

That's true, but to a certain extent that also applies to other things like demons and undead...
There has to be a line somewhere, otherwise they will simply let their guard down.

Also, other than the good pcs around there are plenty that are neutral (I'd assume a simple guard is neutral) and have their families and friends before justice to consider :O
It's not only the paladins that protect drow.. it's everyone.

One of the most famous exuses i hear is "I've traveled with him before.. he's a good drow" - but what reason did one have to travel with him at the first place? :s


as for drawing weapons - that's just my character and his background.
He comes from a line of elven protectors and fighters, he was edjucated that way :p

As for jumping on murderers irl... if I could cast magic or draw a sword as good as my character can - hell yeah.
Technically we IRL are what NPC normal folk are... not adventurers.


I should consider moving to the underdark... less drow there  

[Niles09]

Witch Hunter - 2/10/2007  9:20 AM

Leanthar - 2/10/2007  11:56 AM

"... Once a "good" PC starts killing everything they deem evil, without justification, they walk down a path of evil themself...."

That is a great statement that "good" PC's need to read and understand. Everything needs to have a reason and such. Otherwise why even have an alignment at all.

That's true, but to a certain extent that also applies to other things like demons and undead...
There has to be a line somewhere, otherwise they will simply let their guard down.

Also, other than the good pcs around there are plenty that are neutral (I'd assume a simple guard is neutral) and have their families and friends before justice to consider :O
It's not only the paladins that protect drow.. it's everyone.

One of the most famous exuses i hear is "I've traveled with him before.. he's a good drow" - but what reason did one have to travel with him at the first place? :s


as for drawing weapons - that's just my character and his background.
He comes from a line of elven protectors and fighters, he was edjucated that way :p

As for jumping on murderers irl... if I could cast magic or draw a sword as good as my character can - hell yeah.
Technically we IRL are what NPC normal folk are... not adventurers.


I should consider moving to the underdark... less drow there  

erh... noone said they should let their guard down.

And my example... I will make it a bit more clear:
On a normal day you pass down a street with a few people walking around, then you suddenly regocnizes this murder from tv. Now, you don't have any weapons other than a little pocketknife, while it has been warned on tv that this murder is armed and extremly dangarous, would you then attack him? This is compared to you IG have a maybe 12th level character with a plat armor, a iron sword with lots of enchanments etc and the drow you're facing are lvl 26 with epic equipment.

And besides, if your character drawes weapon he must think the drow is evil. In that case he should think that the drow will respond his drawing of weapons and your character does not know that there is a rule that he can't be killed (and we're still working with the low level pc vs high level drow pc). Any character with an int of 10 would know that he would surely be dead if he draws weapons.

[Witch Hunter]

How do I know the drows level exactly? for all I know he's a Drow, perhaps with a bit of luck I'd be able to tell his profession as well.

As for thinking a drow is evil - sorry I forgot the majority of them are good haha - A good drow is one of a million, the fact that we are swamped with them is because it's considered "cool" to play a Drow, and yes, he expects the Drow to draw weapons but he doesn't know if the Drow is powerful or not... Not everyone is gifted with seeing "Impossible" on a floating info box :O

Any char with an int of 10 would know Drow are backstabbing, and would know better than to trust one and let his guard down.


Let me put it this way: you walk out of town, see an Orc - what do you do? draw your weapons and charge probably.
And don't give me the "no I'd wait to see if he's friendly" because you probably did it a thousand times and again while leveling up... if not an Orc than a Giant :p

[Weeblie]

I think drows should be assumed to be "level 20+" if you character's only experience of them are from the stories.

[Niles09]

what I mean with think he is evil, then that will be the case in 90% of all circumstances because most of the PC's arent so that is a fact.

You know why you see very difficult and impossible and not lvl 14 or lvl 20? Thats because you can't see their exact level, but because you at least can recognize their equipment look and so far. You character should be able to see, "this drow wears a platti armor, it sums from his sword, and there are several scars across him indicating he have seen many battles.

EDIT: well said weeblie. To shorten things, if things where as you character are supposed to believe, nearly every drow you meet is evil and it will kill you if you attack or provoke it. But if you character acutally like to be killed, then Im out of words and you win.

[Witch Hunter]

But you don't know that 90% of the PCs are not evil because thats the rule of the server! thats purely OOC...


Recognize their equipment? I've seen people with burning swords at level 5, as well as 20... I've seen people wearing fancy robes at level 5 and 20.
What my character MIGHT see is "A drow in a fancy set of robes"... not a drow in "Robes of the Impossible Archmage+20".

As for actually seeing the material it's made of:
A) Most metals look almost the same, but they feel different to the touch - esecially after said Drow takes his armor and customizes it to look better.
B) Seeing someone in mithiril for example only makes him rich in my eyes, not powerful - I don't know about you but roleplaying level restrictions is silly.


As for assuming Drow are all 20+, not at all, they're not a race of demigods, they're simply evil.
Again, if we assume all Drows are that powerful what stops them from destroying the world? thousands upon thousands of epic level characters as the simple troops of grand armies... please, my character knows of his race relations with the Drow, he comes from a family that fought againts Drow (as all Elves eventually did) and is not scared of the Drow - but he is not an idiot to let his guard down around them.



And lastly - there is no "assuming levels" in game, there's assuming power :p

[Weeblie]

Yeah, the reason I picked 20+ there is to say that drows are pretty much "epicy" in the eyes of the general population. Even if they aren't (though, most underdark drows that have come up here tend not to be the weak ones), they would most probably be perceived as such, because of what the stories say.

I believe the normal reaction of the drow is the one of running rather the one of whacking them... Unless, you are in the middle of the street, backed up by a large side crowd (read: drow burning mob!)!

And... Actually, that's a rather good question. There is actually nothing stopping the drow from taking over the world.

[Niles09]

Witch Hunter - 2/10/2007  10:12 AM

But you don't know that 90% of the PCs are not evil because thats the rule of the server! thats purely OOC...


And lastly - there is no "assuming levels" in game, there's assuming power :p

Try reading my post again! Im saying the same thing! The fact is 90% are good ok, but you character things it otherwise, ok?

And... my drow character is not evil, however it do still annoy me extremly when people start saying things that really really hits her deep and they keep doing even though I clearly state that my character just lost her head and would kill them many many times if it wasn't for the OOC rule (and its even worse when its characters that are supposed to be good, that hurt her so deep like that)

[Weeblie]

Oh, by the way... The reason they are percieved as a powerful race is because the enviroment they live in.

Underdark is a harsh world, the weak are quite early wiped out. The adult drows are the ones who have survived. They are already the "elite".

Purely talking about game mechanics, a normal (average) drow might not be level 20+, but I would not hesitate to say at least 15+. If you walk around and talk with the "most powerful good people", you will most probably notice that drow are on their top-10 fear list!

[Witch Hunter]

" clearly state that my character just lost her head and would kill them many many times if it wasn't for the OOC rule "
Which is exactly proof of what I have to say about Drow and why they shouldn't be in town


"Purely talking about game mechanics, a normal (average) drow might not be level 20+, but I would not hesitate to say at least 15+. If you walk around and talk with the "most powerful good people", you will most probably notice that drow are on their top-10 fear list!"
That might be so - but then again so would be guards that repel them, as it is clear that they battle Elves - so are we to assume all guards are level 15+
That infact most of Layonara are 15+? Doubt it.


If most people say that drow are on their top 10 fear list.. why are Drow so easily welcomed in town? before the rule forbidding subraces a drow would walk into town day one wearing no cover at all AND recieve assistance if he pleases so... are we nuts? :p
It appears so - but that's NO reason for my character to run away crying everytime he sees a Drow, i'm keeping my weapons at hand mind you, and I'm not about to let the fact they rate "impossible" scare me away - if that was the case then Layonara belongs to the high levels, and theres really nothing for a new character to do.



As for the underdark being a harsh place:
Uhh.. i don't see deep gnomes being a sinister race...
The reason Drow manage to survive in the Underdark is because they live in cities, protected cities - same applies for the Surface world, we live in protected cities.
Of course among the Drow there are elite warriors, but among the surface dwellers as well...

[Drizzlin]

Witch Hunter - 2/10/2007  1:58 PM



As for the underdark being a harsh place:
Uhh.. i don't see deep gnomes being a sinister race...
The reason Drow manage to survive in the Underdark is because they live in cities, protected cities - same applies for the Surface world, we live in protected cities.
Of course among the Drow there are elite warriors, but among the surface dwellers as well...

But in those gnome cities, it is as safe as it gets. They live in harmony. In the drow cities, they are probably safer out in the wild (granted their safty in numbers within the city keep outsiders away). In the drow city the constant infighting and slaughtering of their own kind for personaly gain is the difference.

[Witch Hunter]

Not quite, gnomes are subject to raids.
Drows manage to live in their society good enough, cruel as it may be it has it's benefits.
And regardless of that, if Drow are so powerful and mighty how come when they escape the underdark they're just level 1?.. wouldn't that require someone to be level..say, 20, according to your theories? or is this all just technicall issues.


Drows are not demigods, they are strong - yes, but so are the Surface Elves for example... the only difference is that the Drow wage war on almost everyone

[Drizzlin]

Witch Hunter - 2/10/2007  2:25 PM

Not quite, gnomes are subject to raids.
Drows manage to live in their society good enough, cruel as it may be it has it's benefits.
And regardless of that, if Drow are so powerful and mighty how come when they escape the underdark they're just level 1?.. wouldn't that require someone to be level..say, 20, according to your theories? or is this all just technicall issues.


Drows are not demigods, they are strong - yes, but so are the Surface Elves for example... the only difference is that the Drow wage war on almost everyone

They are ECL 2 for a reason. Sure they come out as level 1, but they are actually in power repsects level 3. They have never "escaped the underdark". The only reason drow have not taking over and killed every other race known, is due to their infighting. They hold themselves back with their chaos.