Invisible Helmets

[SuperMunch]

I ran a quick search in the suggestions forums and couldn't find this suggested before.

In game I've seen headbands and circlets and I'm pretty sure there are other types of head gear (crowns, tiaras, etc.) that aren't helmets or hoods but go into the helmet slot that wouldn't cover a character's face or even been that noticeable.

Wouldn't it be nice if there was an option to customize the helmet into something transparent or invisible?

I have no idea of the difficulty of how to implement this but since the new cloaks are optionally visible, if the same could be applied to helmets, it might be nice for the characters that use headgear that don't necessarily hide the face.

[Dorganath]

I may be wrong here, and if I am I'd love for someone to point me in the direction of some handy goodies on the Vault, but the issue in NWN with helmets and other head gear is not so much that the helmets cover the head but rather that they replace the head...unlike in NWN2, where the headgear is dynamic.
  So essentially, when your character puts on a helmet or other headgear, the game removes the model for your character's head and replaces it with one representing the helmet/hood/whatever. This is why there are no open-faced helmets, why hoods completely obscure the face of the wearer, etc.
  I am unaware of any workable solution to this, but as I said, if someone has seen something nifty, please point it out.

[Chongo]

Coulda sworn I saw this somewhere, I'd try searching the vault Munch.

[Nehetsrev]

I think what SuperMunch means here is, would it be possible to make an option in the helmet crafting sellections that set the helmet visibility to the default of not replacing the character-models head so it would look the same as if the helm wasn't being worn at all?  Kind of like when you set a cloak to be invisible and when it's worn it doesn't affect the character-model in any way at all.

[Dorganath]

I understand what he meant, but here's the key difference between cloaks and helmets:
  Cloaks are models that get attached to the body and display over top of the existing parts.
  Helmets are replacement models for heads. There is no "invisible" helmet, but there is an invisible head.
  We can make cloaks invisible because we can assign a null model to them, but if we do the same for a helmet, we get a headless PC.
  Again, as I understand the issue, it is a game limitation, but I am happy to be shown I am wrong here.

[SuperMunch]

I spent a few minutes on "The Google" and the bioware forums and nothing relevant turned up.

I understand what you mean Dorg and it's a lot easier, from the engine's perspective, to swap the head out and place a new one in.

[blonde]

I think I saw a hak with open helmets on the vault once. I dont know how they did it, but I will see if I can find it again.

[blonde]

Right i found it. It was done with effects, so no actual helmet. But it did look cool though.

[Nehetsrev]

Hmmm...what about the old cloaks that were actually 'neck' models, wasn't there a default neck that was considered the character's un-clothed neck and displayed with that character's 'natural' skin-coloring?  I guess you'd have to know what value is used to display the character's natural head model when a helmet isn't being worn, and then figure out how to get that to display when the helmet is worn in order to make an 'invisible' option for helmets.  Maybe it's just no possible with the way NWN was coded, I can't say that I'd know since I've got no expertise in that area.

I guess what I'm thinking is that there must be something in the coding that would roughly match the statements:

If Helmet = Not Worn then Head Displayed = Character's Head Model
If Helmet = Worn then Head Displayed = Helmet Head Model

So the trick would be to figure out what value is assigend to Character's Head Model and then figure out a way to assign that to the Helmet Head Model so that when the coding called to Helmet Head Model to be displayed it would get the value of the character's head model from the helmet.

[LynnJuniper]

Its probably possible but it would probably take a way to know your unique character head/hair color/skin color combination. Think of how many possible combinations there are?

[Nehetsrev]

Well to elaborate, the coding has to have a place where it stores the information about your character's normal head, so that when you take off a helmet you've been wearing your character's normal head appears again.  If you find where that information is stored, then you could theoreticly code the program to look there and assign those same values to a helmet.  We know that NWN stores (somewhere) the following information for each character/outfit:  Head/Helm Model Style Neck Model Style Torso Model Style Left/Right Shoulder Model Style Left/Right Bycep Model Style Left/Right Forearm Model Style Left/Right Hand Model Style Belt Model Style Pelvis Model Style Left/Right Thigh Model Style Left/Right Shin Model Style Left/Right Foot Model Style Robe Model Style Cape Model Style **Added in the update for the newer capes/cloaks Hair Color * Skin Color * Tattoo Color 1 * Tattoo Color 2 * Helm Cloth Color 1 Helm Cloth Color 2 Helm Leather Color 1 Helm Leather Color 2 Helm Metal Color 1 Helm Metal Color 2 Body Cloth Color 1 Body Cloth Color 2 Body Leather Color 1 Body Leather Color 2 Body Metal Color 1 Body Metal Color 2 Cape Cloth Color 1 Cape Cloth Color 2 Cape Leather Color 1 Cape Leather Color 2 Cape Metal Color 1 Cape Metal Color 2  ----- *Hair,Skin, Tattoo 1 and Tattoo 2 colors are applied to both head and body parts and can't be changed after character creation.  Also certain values are assigned then that determine the various models available to a character after creation based on their race, gender, and body (fat or slim).  Now, for what we're talking about here (helms) we can pretty much disregard the info about the other colors used on the body, but I think each Helm you customize in-game is assigned values from:  Head/Helm Model Style

[Dorganath]

In theory, sure.
  Problem is, NWN enforces certain things when you put on/take off a helmet. We could expose that to scripting at the following costs:
  1) Lag 2) An incredibly large number of head/helmet models to account for all head shape/skin color/hair color/helmet combos
  In short, it's not as simple as it may seem.
  I've been told of a project that is attempting to do this, but they're having to fool NWN using the "tail" as the head, so that when a helmet is put on, it overlays the "head" and can then show the open-face thing. Of course, that would probably come at a price as well. The first one that comes to mind is that if we ever move to the DLA horses, this head thing probably would conflict.
  The short of it is, NWN wasn't designed for this, and basic support in the NWN binary code (not script) just isn't there, but really should be there for it to be done right.

[Chongo]

Chongo - 1/17/2007  7:10 AM

Coulda sworn I saw this somewhere, I'd try searching the vault Munch.

I did a search again, nothing.  Apparently I was once again confusing an old dream with something that happened.

[pejsaboy]

I don't remember the server where I saw it advertised, but I remember one that claimed they had something similar setup: You put the helmet on, and I'm not sure what then, but after that you could take the helmet off and retain the bonuses or properties the helmet gave you.

[darkstorme]

Sounds like a on-equip script fire.  Which again, screams one thing to me.  Lag.