Author Topic: A Questions about Multiclassing Monks and Fighter (Read 1407 times)

Blackguy · « **Reply #20 on:** February 05, 2007, 12:47:08 AM »

You can have weaponfocus in unarmed

Chongo · « **Reply #21 on:** February 05, 2007, 01:30:48 AM »

There is no weapon of choice for unarmed, either that or it's not counted in the melee 'weapon' menu. That's what Talan is driving at. Trust the man. He looks at it far too much.

*shifty eyes*

Wait... I look at it far too much. Talan looks once, but at the actual numbers, so he's generally right. And saving time I might add.

As for all this talk about monks... geesh. Lay off. Not like they can hit for more then 25! Though they are good at the following expression: Look at me! You're all dead and I'm running like the wind! Weeee!

*sticks a big playful tongue out at his monk friends*

soul101 · « **Reply #22 on:** February 05, 2007, 02:27:09 AM »

Believe me, I've tried... imagine a level 20 monk/WM 7... the high BAB, the extra AB, the 1-20 +3 (17-20/x3) (assuming free multiclassing). from a powerbuild POV, it's insane!

Alas, no, unarmed does not count as melee weapon for WM class... unless Leanthar has changed that rule?

Hellblazer · « **Reply #23 on:** February 05, 2007, 02:40:56 AM »

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ShiffDrgnhrt - 2/4/2007 7:06 PM So a Monk is basically Strong all by itself? Cause I come up with these ideas not to make the ultimate warrior, but more to make an interesting Character.

I only have to say 2 things here and its a split decision on my part. Yes there is balance.
But
the monks, Shaolin in example, have diferent weapons and style training. There for even if they are monk they still use, the boa, the sword and other weapons that they were trained in the monestary.

Hellblazer · « **Reply #24 on:** February 05, 2007, 02:41:47 AM »

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ShiffDrgnhrt - 2/4/2007 7:06 PM So a Monk is basically Strong all by itself? Cause I come up with these ideas not to make the ultimate warrior, but more to make an interesting Character.

I only have to say 2 things here and its a split decision on my part. Yes there is balance.
But
the monks, Shaolin in example, have diferent weapons and style training. There for even if they are monk they still use, the boa, the sword and other weapons that they were trained in the monestary.
and yes it is a RL example, but its a fantsy world although many things in this game has been picked from real life.

gilshem ironstone · « **Reply #25 on:** February 05, 2007, 02:58:50 AM »

NWN Monks have access to training in all sorts of weapons and at high levels (17-20)could be considered masters of them (see them fight a lvl 6 fighter with a Kama), maybe not in the same level as a Weapon Master... But even RL Shao-Lin Monks have inner-discipline and focus as their greatest asset, and I think that is what is being emphasized here... That the team wants Monks to be more about their inner make-up, than their external skills.

I think the Cleric/Fighter/Sacred Fist could be a great answer to that though... Monk Abilities are replaced with cleric spells, and you'd be able to get most of the monk combat feats with your fighter levels... You could walk around saying your a monk, as long as it is a Sacred Fist oreder or some previously unknown order and no one would be the wiser... Except those naughty meta-games out there.

Weeblie · « **Reply #26 on:** February 05, 2007, 04:13:04 AM »

Clerics are clerics, and making the class be something else than that would most probably be seriously frowned upon and IC-ly might result in losing of clerical powers (a cleric not acting like a cleric is kind of straying away from the teachings and the duties laid forth by your deity, in my opinion).

Edit: This is only applied to clerics pretending to be something else, not the actual cases they ARE something else (read: multiclassed).

gilshem ironstone · « **Reply #27 on:** February 05, 2007, 05:00:02 AM »

Thats fair... I was just saying that there might be a way to play a character similar to what is desired without the monk/fighter build.

ShiffDrgnhrt · « **Reply #28 on:** February 05, 2007, 08:38:22 AM »

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gilshem ironstone - 2/5/2007 5:58 AM

NWN Monks have access to training in all sorts of weapons and at high levels (17-20)could be considered masters of them (see them fight a lvl 6 fighter with a Kama), maybe not in the same level as a Weapon Master...

What kind of weapons are you talking about? I thought Monks could only use the Kama and the few others in the Monk WP (club, dagger, handaxe, light crossbow, heavy crossbow, quarterstaff, shuriken, kama and sling [WHY NOT KATANA >:/ ]).

Jearick Hgar · « **Reply #29 on:** February 05, 2007, 09:05:30 AM »

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ShiffDrgnhrt - 2/5/2007 8:38 AM

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gilshem ironstone - 2/5/2007 5:58 AM

NWN Monks have access to training in all sorts of weapons and at high levels (17-20)could be considered masters of them (see them fight a lvl 6 fighter with a Kama), maybe not in the same level as a Weapon Master...

What kind of weapons are you talking about? I thought Monks could only use the Kama and the few others in the Monk WP (club, dagger, handaxe, light crossbow, heavy crossbow, quarterstaff, shuriken, kama and sling [WHY NOT KATANA >:/ ]).

that's starting weapons, you can take weapon proficiencies tog et what every weapon you dream of =D.

DMOE · « **Reply #30 on:** February 05, 2007, 10:20:51 AM »

Just to play devils advocate here...
Yes in RL you have Shaolin Monks and Samurai who do the whole monk type thing and use weapons and can use them as a base of an argument for Monk/Fighter levels as you have but....
This is a FANTASY game setting as the last time I checked no RL monk was immune to disease etc, run twice as fast as everyone else, they tend to die when shot, tend to die when connecting with the sharp edge of sword so I fail to see how RL examples of such things can be used to justify fighter levels for a monk, especially when the rules on multi-classing monks are established and very clear.

Stephen_Zuckerman · « **Reply #31 on:** February 05, 2007, 10:36:10 AM »

The katana is nothing more than a differently-named Bastard Sword. Its stats are exactly the same, because the katana is simply a variant bastard sword. Why they included it in NWN, I can never guess.

In any case, if you want to use other weapons as a monk, just (gasp) take other Weapon Proficiencies.

DMOE · « **Reply #32 on:** February 05, 2007, 11:18:19 AM »

Erm.....Stephen.....Have you ever actually fought RL with either sword?
Bastard Sword is classed as hand and a half and Katana two handed for a start before we even get onto the fact that the blades are completely different shapes and the fighting styles used for each sword being dramatically different.
You would break your wrist if you attempted half of the things that can be done with a Katana with a Bastard Sword.
D&D versions 3 & 3.5 don't even have a Katana listed in the players handbook although both do state the Bastard Sword is a hand and a half sword, hence why it is classed as an exotic weapon.
I guess they included it in NWN to allow people to RP the differences in the fighting styles.
But...having checked the Lore entry on Monks...Stephen is quite right in his suggestion that if you wish to have a monk who fights with other weapons then simply take other weapon proficiencies as there is nothing to say you can't. Yes, monk remaining unarmed or using a kama gains a unique base attack bonus but you'd sacrifice that anyway using a Katana regardless of if you take fighter levels or not so why would fighter levels make such a difference if all you simply wish to do is fight with another weapon?
Oh and yes....I have spent FAR too much time both with re-enactors and at the Royal Armories, discussing fighting styles of swords, watching demonstrations which were put together after long and intensive study of actual fighting manuals written in the relevant period for the weapon and also getting to use the weapons myself.

Stephen_Zuckerman · « **Reply #33 on:** February 05, 2007, 11:37:07 AM »

*Grins.* I'm only speaking from a D&D perspective, DMOE. Believe me, I know the difference between your typical arming sword and your typical katana.

Secondly, I'm afraid you're not quite right about the Katana. It is a one-handed weapon; I've dual-wielded them in the OC. Statistically, the katana is IDENTICAL to the bastard sword, both in NWN and PnP, as both are 1d10 Slashing 19(18?)-20/x2 weapons which can be wielded (in PnP) as two-handed with the Martial Weapon Proficiency, or one-handed with the Exotic Weapon Proficiency. It's the same way dwarven waraxes are handled.

The reason the katana is not listed in the handbooks is because the katana is a carbon-copy of the bastard sword, mechanically. In the Alternate Weapons section of the DMG and Arms & Equipment Guide, it says to use bastard sword stats for a katana, just as one should use Club stats for a shillelagh (I'm spelling that wrong, I'm sure) and kukri stats for a tanto.

I've done plenty of the reenactment bits myself, and melee weaponry is an interesting hobby of mine.

Sadly, I don't have the money to actually own any of the fun pieces of dangerous metal that my instructors let me play with.

Jearick Hgar · « **Reply #34 on:** February 05, 2007, 11:38:35 AM »

i think Stephen was talking about stat wise for NWN DMOE. becuase they are exactly the same weapon stat wise.

1d10 dmg, 19-20/x2 crit range Exotic weapon proficiencyslashing dmg. nothign different but graphics.*shrugs*

Hellblazer · « **Reply #35 on:** February 05, 2007, 11:41:27 AM »

*Shake his head at the mention of a Katana being a bastard sword*
M'Lord, I think you should speak with my friend M'Lord Pandorn who is a weapon master of the Katana. YOu would be surprised at what he could teach you about the use of this fine blade. Oh yes, I will never touch it, but I can see the grace in its use.
// in d&d it is a single hand weapon, but the Katana is truly a two hand weapon, you are talking of the smaller version called the wakazashi which is used to swiftly cut if a sword lock is made. Also used in the traditional hara-kiri
Basicaly the Katana is a blade that vary from 27 inch to 30 inch in lenth as the Wakazashi varise from 18 to 21 inch generaly. there is also a big diference in weight between the two.

DMOE · « **Reply #36 on:** February 05, 2007, 11:43:55 AM »

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Stephen_Zuckerman - 2/5/2007 7:37 PM
Secondly, I'm afraid you're not quite right about the Katana. It is a one-handed weapon; I've dual-wielded them in the OC.

Just because you have dual-wielded them does not mean that is there intended use or make them one handed.
Being the first place I could be bothered to look...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katana
"The katana was primarily used for cutting, and intended for use with a two-handed grip."
And for those who don't trust Wikipedia...
http://www.jitsuka.org/jitsuka/sword.htm#GRIP
"The katana is held in both hands with the right hand nearest the tsuba. The tip should be slightly raised and the sharp edge away from you"
There was one famous Samurai warrior who learned to wield a katana in one hand, instead of the usual two-handed grip, and began the development of a style of fighting using two swords. He was Miyamoto Musashi and he was most certainly the exception to the normal two handed fighting style.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/alabaster/A681004

ShiffDrgnhrt · « **Reply #37 on:** February 05, 2007, 12:03:05 PM »

Actually, the Katana is most affective when wielded with two hands since the blade was made primarily for chopping(slashing). You can not get a much force using a Katana Onehanded as you could two handed, although they can be used either way... (owns his own KAtanas)

Oh and another thing. The only reason I wanted fighter lvls for the monk would be for the extra Weapon specialization on the Kama... But i guess that is pwr gaming

ShiffDrgnhrt · « **Reply #38 on:** February 05, 2007, 12:31:33 PM »

I actually have a new question. How do monks fit in to Layo... Like are they servants of the gods like clerics and paladins, are they scholars? Where are they most often from? Is there a culture on Layo that emphasizes a monks way of life?

Dorganath · « **Reply #39 on:** February 05, 2007, 12:41:54 PM »

Short answer: Yes
Long answer: They are disciplined in all aspects of their lives, and so if they are believers in a particular deity, then their faith would surely follow along such lines. There's a fair latitude available for this kind of thing.