The World of Layonara
The NWN Persistent World => Layonara Server => Topic started by: orth on January 01, 2006, 08:18:00 am
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For characters who have reached at least 15th level, you may now purchase a rideable horse. The one and only horse merchant is on Dregar in Orcs Watch. You will need a saddle if you buy a horse, also available from the horse vendor. Horses cost about 18,000GP, and saddles cost about 250GP. Horses work in a very similar fashion to oxen. You "talk" to your horse to ride it, lead it with a rope or tie it down. You will need to manage your horse location as you would do for your ox. To dismount the horse, use your saddle's unique power on yourself. Horses do not give you any storage space like oxen do, but they will give you a 50% increase in speed over any terrain. There are 5 kinds of horses available for purchase:
- Black horse
- Brown horse
- White pony
- Brown pony
- Dappled (brown and white) pony
Full-sized character races (humans, elves, etc.) will be able to buy horses. Small-sized character races (halflings, dwarves, etc.) will be able to by ponies. There is a horse tracker system, like with oxen, if you misplace your horse. If your horse dies, you'll have to buy a new one, though you can keep your saddle. NOTE: This system is not the same as the Paladin Warhorse system.
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Orth I'd give you the biggest hug if I could right now.
Edit - I'm thinking the answer to this one is a no, but it can't hurt to ask - with the paladin war horse system I know you must be pure class 15th level paladin, but what about a combination of divine paladin/paladin like (champion) levels - like 10 paladin/5 champion or something like that? It'd make sense to me from an RP standpoint. Would this ever be approved or feasible ever?
(course I'm fine with buying a horse and saddle, but I thought it couldn't hurt to ask)
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Hey...orth didn't do the horses... *grumbles* On second thought...go ahead and hug orth..hehe ;)
Paladins need to be level 14 in Paladin levels to get their warhorses. The general public needs to have 15 character levels.
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Ok then, how abouts a lvl 9 paladin 5 champion? (I'm thinking this will always be reserved for pure class paladins - but I wanted to ask anyhow because of the nature of a champion prestige class.) Thoughts?
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Or the Lucindite paladins with free wizard-multiclass?
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14 Paladin levels.
Edit: Keep in mind, a paladin's warhorse is better than what can be bought by the general public. There's no reason why a multi-classed paladin couldn't by a standard horse. But it won't be a warhorse.
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Good job on the horses Dorg.
And yes, it is paladin levels. I will think about the champion thing but it is likely that I will keep it at paladin levels only.
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That's fine - thanks for giving it a bit of thought. The mere fact that you (the team) brought rideable horses to the public (among everything else) is really appreciated.
Edit: *hugs Dorg*...heh
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This is absolutely awesome. Big thanks to orth and Dorganath, you have done amazing. For me personally, the only thing more from this area would be like boars, wolves and rams to ride on. That would make the choice perfect.
In no way does that decrease the credit of you guys and my respect towards you. Once again great job! :)
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Excellent !
*Hugs the entire dev staff*
* Looks at the 18K cost to get horsies when they die*
One question, can I cast invisible spells on the horse and myself, and
be invisible while riding ? ( i.e I can invis my ox to get him into mines undetected)
-Hali
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Yes.
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orth - 1/1/2006 8:18 AM Horses do not give you any storage space like oxen do, but they will give you a 50% increase in speed over any terrain.
I am wondering how this would apply to monks. Would the 50% increase stack with my monk speed? If not, that's totally fine. If it does, however, I personally would not buy a horse as Xiao unless there was a good RP reason his horse could run faster just because he was riding it.
I have thought of one possible explanation for this. The monk learns to channel the Ki energy through his own body and into the horse, making it run faster, just as he/she does. This would be no small feat, though. I personally would request to have a CDQ run to find an NPC monk who knows how to do this and have him train Xiao in this art before buying a horse. I would suggest any other monks or barbarians wait to buy a horse until this question is answered. This is all if the horse would run faster as a default, of course.
If any GM's want to test this with me, just contact me IG. I could buy a horse to test it, then get my gold back after the test. If the horse doesn't run faster, then buying it would be silly for Xiao, and if it does, I'd want to wait for the CDQ I suggested. Comments, ideas?
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I don't think it will stack, but I am not entirely sure. We should take it for a test to find out.
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Can you attack from horseback? Cast spells? Or can you merely travel and have to dismount to fight?
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You should be able to do all of those things, though there is no bonus for doing so.
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Leanthar - 1/2/2006 6:31 AM I don't think it will stack, but I am not entirely sure. We should take it for a test to find out.
Is it ok if I buy one just to test it, then get reimbursed the gold?
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Yeah, go ahead. When you're done, have a GM kill your horse and give you back the gold.
Oh...and the horse merchant can be persuaded to knock 500 off the price, so keep track of how much you actually paid :)
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Dorganath - 1/2/2006 10:51 AM
You should be able to do all of those things, though there is no bonus for doing so.
Will your horse take damage if you fight while on it? or is it one of those things where you take all the damage untill they kill you, then the horse would start taking damage?
-TV
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From a technical stanpoint, when you're riding a horse, your phenotype changes, so that you and the horse are one and the same. There's no difference between you and the horse, because it's one model.
Right now, there's no provision for dying while mounted. I suspect your horse would be restored along with you if you respawn or are resurrected. However, I probably should set it so that if you die while mounted, your horse appears beside you and then is on its own in terms of fending for itself...it'll probably die too from combat, but that's the chance you take. These aren't warhorses, afterall.
In fact...I'm going to do that right now.
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Look for the following regarding horses in the next patch, coming soon:
- Horses are now tougher and harder to kill. They will defend themselves if attacked but shouldn't go charging into battle. Paladin warhorses have been adjusted upward as well. Thanks to Ice for the help with the creature mods.
- Saddles have been updated with the following functions:
+ Dismount + Set speed to normal. (Mounted horse travels at normal PC rate)
+ Set speed to fast. (Mounted horse travels at 50% faster rate)
+ Description added to saddle item (use ox pack to refresh an existing saddle)
Use the saddle's unique power on yourself while mounted to access these features. Thanks to Pankoki for the suggestion on speed.
- Equiping a tower shield while mounted is no longer permitted. If you mount a horse with a tower shield equipped, it will be unequipped. Be sure to manage your inventory. If it is full, your tower shield will be dropped on the ground and may get hit by the clean-up script.
- If you die while mounted, you will fall off your horse and the horse will be left to fend for itself. This will probably mean the horse will die too. Think long and hard before entering combat on horseback. Thanks to Talan for planting that bug in my ear.
- Cross-server speed persistence issues should be resolved. Thanks to Reventage for the report.
- GMs may interact with any player horse as well as inspect them to see which character owns the horse. Interaction includes leading, tying and riding horses that belong to PCs and those that don't.
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Makes me cry I don't have even a level 15 character yet >.<
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Good job Dorg.
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I bought a horse as Xiao and tried it out. It turns out it DOES stack with monk speed. It really wouldn't make sense for the horse to be able to run faster just because a monk is riding it. Since saddles will be updated soon, I think all monks should agree to only use the normal speed setting for their saddles, since this will actually be a full gallop compared to other characters.
I have already mentioned my idea about learning to channel Ki through the horse so it can run faster, as a way of explaining the faster speed. Personally, I think this would be a pretty major thing to learn to do, and would vote that it only be done via CDQ or some other special way. I'll leave this up to the GM staff, but I'd be willing to gather some high level monks to go visit some monk NPC who could teach us to do this.
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Thanks for testing that Chrys. I'm working on some other things with the horses and things that probably shouldn't happen while mounted, so I'll get the monk thing under control.
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Now, if the horse won't allow me to at least eventually run faster than I already do, through a CDQ or some other way as I've already mentioned, then I'll want to get reimbursed for the horse, as it would be useless to me, basically. I'll hold onto it for now until I see how they are re-vamped.
Personally, I do think monks should be able to buy horses and eventually learn how to make them run faster, somehow. Otherwise, a big advantage of being a monk has just been leveled out, since everyone else will effectively be just as fast, providing they are on horseback. Again, I'll leave that up to the staff.
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GM's can ride our horses?
Grrrrr...
they sit in our chairs... drink from our wells... CONSPIRE AGAINST US!
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
in other news... I ran out of coffee filters
in other other news... I think that's a great idea. The animations look great too! Now.. lets get one on Weston and watch him charge windmills.
In response to L below... I'd agree... it's really not for every character. In Weston's case a horse would really be for the whole "I think I'm a Paladin" thing. And it would be cool to see him use magic from a horse and lead charges... hehehe
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I don't think everybody will be on horses, as a matter of fact I will be stunned if they are. Horses do no good in battles and are just a customization and RP thing for a character. And they are expensive--and somewhat easy to die after the next update (real easy as it is right now--which is a bug).
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Also coming soon to a server patch near you:
- There is a -30 penalty to Hide/Move Silently skills when mounted.
- Horses will resist domination through druid/ranger Animal Empathy. While it may succeed, they will break the domination very quickly.
- Monks on horseback will max out at 150% movement speed. For monks 18th level and up, this equates to no change in movement rate.
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All right then. Any other tests you'd like run before I have a GM kill my horse and refund my coins?
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Are these horses weaker than a Paladin's?
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@chrys, none that I can think of right now...if we need one later we can always give you the gold for the test then remove the horse. Thanks for your help. Go ahead and have a GM kill your horse and refund your gold if you do not want to keep the horse.
@gulnyr, yes they are weaker than a Paladin's warhorse. However, both are being updated to be better than they are currently (at this time) in game.
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I have to agree that it makes little sense for a horse to run faster at all reguardless of level cause a Monk is sitting on it.
well maybe they dont ride it they push them.... ;)
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I got an idea while talking to Xiao about mounted combat.
If a character is successfully knocked down while mounted on a horse, they will be knocked off the horse.
Also, seeing as how being seated in a saddle is not quite as easy as standing your ground, fighting on horseback would incur a negative modifier to Discipline, or giving an attack bonus to enemies making the attempt to knockdown.
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Fighting on horse back would require training to my mind like using exotic weapons etc. Should be a feat that must be chosen.
But there can be a giant thread on all the changes to combat dynamics that a warhorse would provide and probably a lot of code writing as well. I.e. if you use a spear from a horse it does extra damage to opponents and conversely if you run into someone with a polearm set vs a charge you and or your horse would take extra damage. No longbow use from a horse and no crossbow reloading also come to mind.
However I think that the horses are not war horses (unless a paladin has one?). If the horse is not trained and or the rider not trained then I think you should not be able to fight from horseback without some giant negative attack modifier and possibly a bonus to attackers against you if you are on a regular horse. Might work like a handed weapon fighting thing with the horse as the proverbial "2nd weapon".
of couse this is a Dwarfs' opinion. :>
And as a Dwarf I would like to see all the humans and elves having to practice Dressage all day in the fields *laughs loudly*
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I think one should beable to fire a bow or crossbow from the horse. People have hunted from horse back for ages. A reduction modifier maybe afer an intiative failure, (Not being able to take the first shot) but as a rider of horses, they can stand pretty still. Other than that, all other suggestions sound reasonable.
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I know war horses and horse combat would be very cool to implement--*sighs lovingly*. However, we have no intention of introducing war horses, lances, jousting or anything like that. A paladins warhorse is very much different than a normal horse.
I'm sorry. The horses are for RP and character customization only at this time.
I just didn't want people to get their hopes up on that stuff and be waiting for things, it just isn't going to happen for quite some time--if ever.
You can already fight, cast, use range combat etc. from the horses. We just will not be adding anything more to them. This includes horse armor, character benefits or decrements, feats or anything like that, besides what has already been listed and/or pertains to something that is exploitable.
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With the bows I was thinking that giant traditional European long bows would be too long. Short bows yes. Hence the size of say Mongal bows which where recurved and small. Unless you like the Japanese long bows which I think are short on the bottom so they can be used from horseback.
While you could shoot a crossbow once I think loading would be hard from horseback in combat. Mabey not though.
However dwarven fire breathing war ponies should be available and Thrain has it on good authority that they will.
* the authority being the drunken dwarf at the inn*
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I don't suppose that horses can climb mountains, but how about jumping things like the creek on Rilara?
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Horses can go anywhere you can go, and in the same manner that you would use to get there.
Nothing more, nothing less.
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*Looks to the answer to his previews post* I don't know if that is a good or a bad thing... this way I am still not sure if I want to take levels in Champion of Toran :(
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What do horses have to do with Champion of Toran? Or am I missing something?
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Believe that's in reply to the Paladin Warhorses not taking Champion levels into consideration.
Edit- Ah, right, and the normal horse being weaker than the warhorse, ie liking that the warhorse is stronger but not liking having to wait for an extra long time because of multiclassing. Or something. Eh.
Edit again- Oh, right. Not a "not understanding the comment," but a "this shouldn't have any impact on your decision" thing. *Sighs and goes back to bed since her comprehension rate is at an all time low.*
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Gilmh - 1/6/2006 5:46 PM*Looks to the answer to his previews post* I don't know if that is a good or a bad thing... this way I am still not sure if I want to take levels in Champion of Toran :(
Please don't "not" take CoT levels because you will not get a warhorse. Make that decision based on if that's the direction you see your character heading.
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[orange]WARNING TO THOSE WITH PREVIOUS HORSES BEFORE THE UPDATE!! If you get on a horse your saddle wont work anymore and you wont be able to get off!! I REPEAT DO NOT GET ON A HORSE!! THE ONLY WAY TO SOLVE THIS RIGHT NOW UNTIL THE SADDLE IS FIXED IS TO HAVE A DM KILL YOU AND THEN RAISE YOU!!
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Not entirely true, Pan.
The Phenotype wand will help as well.
I'm checking on this problem now...should have a fix shortly. Sorry folks.
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Fixed.
http://www.layonaraonline.com/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=21356&posts=4