Creatures following across areas

[Dorganath]

OK, listen everyone....
  As I said, accidents happen.  Monsters get lured out of their little areas, whether intentionally or not, by characters. Sometimes they get themselves into spots they can't get out of, other times they just happen to get too close, or the monsters wander too close.  And my guess is that those that seem to follow you through the transition were already there, dragged by someone else. Or they were behind you and you didn't notice.
  Whatever.
  The issue with luring has to do with respect for other players.  You may burst into town with orcs on your tail and rush into the happy arms of Garent or Talon or whoever.  Or you may stumble over some brand new player just in from the Dragon Dream. Think about that for a moment.  When you come bursting through those doors, you do not know who you will encounter, and how fair is it to others if they die because you didn't want to?
  We could play "what if" all day long. To maintain a practice of luring monsters to towns in order to count on the pawn shops and chickens to kill them is what concerns us here.  Accidents happen, but one should not make a practice of it.

[Leanthar]

Dorganath is exactly right and it is the rules of this server. There are no exceptions to this, they are there for a reason.  Sorry if you don't like them, but that is the rule(s) and they will remain--period.

[Talan Va'lash]

Could someone respawn the chickens in hope and velensk if it hasnt reset yet?

-TV

Edit: acctually, this doesn't really matter all that much.  It'll probably reset before too long (it might have already anyway.)

[blonde]

You have to keep in mind that the towns are not only populated by adventurers. A town like Hlint is full of innocent townfolks, women, children, old people...You would really have to a very morally disturbed character to find an IC reason to drag monsters into such a place. Same goes for Hope and Velenst of course...it's not just chickens that are sacrificed to safe your hide.

[Dark Jester]

Hmm.. I have sortof a 'Devils advocate' argument to this.

I read a lot of fantasy novels and stuff (Mostly Forgotten Realms). There are many times throughout these types of stories that have the 'heroes' being overwhelmed and racing toward the safety of a towns gates.

Yes, there are women, children, etc in a town like Hlint, but realisticly, there would also be multiple guards stationed at every gate, some walking the walls, Barracks nearby for reinforcements.

On the Gameplay aspect: The only reason this is not allowed is because it can be considered an exploit if done intentionally. In shotgunbunny's example, using an NPC as a tank while you kill the monster would be illegal. If you must do something like this, let the NPC finish the monster. Or help, but make sure you don't get the last hit. Then you leave the loot on the ground to get cleaned up by the server.

I don't know.. I have done this a few times. On a system where Perm-Death is a very real possibility, and 'logically' running to a town "full of guards" would save my life, I'd be running for the guards. Forcing a death just because you stepped in the wrong place and running to the guard is not an option seems a bit harsh to me.

Just my 2 cents..

-Dark Jester

[Dorganath]

Dark Jester...and everyone else -
  I observed someone getting out of a near-death experience just last night, and he did it the right way...that is he did not involve town NPCs. The rest of his party had fallen in the Krandor crypts, he had three really nasty undead on his tail and he was down to very few hit points himself.  He ran around, however, stopping to heal and hit occasionally, then ran again, putting some distance between him and the undead...heal and hit...and run and heal and hit.  He got the number down to two undead, and then was able to get himself healed to the point where he could take on the remaining two and eliminate them.  No cows, chickens or pawn shops were harmed or even came into play.
  So the point is that it can, and should, be done.  Making a habit of running to an NPC to escape one's own death is bad RP and exploitive of the game engine for reasons that have nothing to do with loot or XP.
  Edit: And just for clarification...we're not "forcing death" upon players who go where maybe they shouldn't... But if you're going to extrapolate realism, then consider that when you're dragging orcs back to town, you may be forcing death on guards and commoners alike for your inability clean up the mess you created or your own unwillingness to die for your own mistakes.  And you're not dragging back just three of them, but probably more like 30.

[regnus]

Leanthar - 9/11/2005  8:06 PM    Dorganath is exactly right and it is the rules of this server. There are no exceptions to this, they are there for a reason.  Sorry if you don't like them, but that is the rule(s) and they will remain--period.
 

 We can go back and forth with different scenarios but I think this pretty much sums it up.

[HooD!uM]

as i said....buy healing kits....they save lifes...

[Shotgunbunny]

But, even though the rules have been stated, there's still the initial problem, which is, monsters appearing at transitions even if you didn't aggro them, this is the reason why i try to let an npc tank so i can kill them, they're just too strong for me, that's why i avoided them in the first place, but still they show up when i go through an area transition, and that's not right, and don't give me stuff like: "You aggro'd them by accident" I have had more then once, a monster did not see me, did not follow me, did not attack me, i didn't do anything to them, and yet they show up right next to me when i enter a new area.

I understand that using the npc's as tank is against the rules, but it's the only thing i could do, if i had died trying to fight a creature which was far too powerfull for me, it'll also kill other players when they come by, but if i lure them to an npc's and then kill them, nobody will die.

Let me just put it this way: They attacking me in an unfair way(they show up even though i didn't aggro them)so i kill them in an unfair way(using the npc's as tank). I know it's against the rules, but creatures showing up at area transitions even though they weren't aggro'd is(i hope) also against the rules.

And also, i am being blamed (maybe not in words, but i know all you guys now see me as a creature-to-town-lurer)because of something which would not have happened if those creatures didn't show up even though they weren't aggro'd, think about that.

[Harlas Ravelkione]

Shotgunbunny. If you cannot face your enemies, dont seek them out. Period.

You can argue back and forth forever, and you will still be wrong on this matter. Drawing enemies into town and having them attack enemies, and maybe get killed by these is causing man-slaughter. Meeting enemies directly in transition areas unfortunately happens, but the rules are still clear on this subject. If you are doing this in-game you are breaking the rules and will have to face the consequences of your actions.

Harlas

[regnus]

Shotgunbunny - 9/11/2005  11:36 AM

I sometimes have problems with creatures following me across areas even though they didn't target me, i have this a lot when i use stealth, for example

Stealth is not guaranteed.  I have tried using stealth and it works for a while and then the creature would see me and then attack.  I am not sure on how NWN mechanics work and if the creature gets multiple checks after a certain duration, but that is what it looked like to me.  Anyway, is it possible that you are using stealth and at one point you are walking by the creature unnoticed, but as you are leaving the creature sees you.  When you transition then the creature appears beside you.

Shotgunbunny - 9/12/2005  11:50 AM
But, even though the rules have been stated, there's still the initial problem, which is, monsters appearing at transitions even if you didn't aggro them, this is the reason why i try to let an npc tank so i can kill them, they're just too strong for me, that's why i avoided them in the first place...

But you didnt avoid them.  You used stealth and walked by them as stated in your original post.  

Shotgunbunny - 9/12/2005  11:50 AM
I understand that using the npc's as tank is against the rules

But regardless, *points up at your quote* , you understand that it is against the rules.  Breaking the rules is what it is whether the creature saw you or not.

[Leanthar]

This is another one of those cases that shows that nothing can be perfect and that no rule is ever perfect and sometimes is even a little unfair. There is only so much we can do here guys/gals, only so much. The rule is in place and it will be enforced.  Clearly what I stated above was not enough and people want to continue to argue until they are blue in the face.  Like it or not the rule stands and it will be enforced.
  I am locking this thread because no matter how we say it people just want to continue with various reasonings/discussions etc.  Trust me guys/gals we have heard all of them--been doing this for over three years now.
  It is one thing to voice thoughts/concerns etc. but when it just continues to go on and on and on, well it gets sort of pointless.
  Sorry, but please follow the rule.