Tieflings- Question/Suggestion

[Ne'er]

I was wondering first, is the alignment restriction on Tieflings a hard and fast rule, that all Tieflings must be of a choatic alignment? I wanted to know if there were any suggestions (i.e. a multitude of good reasons displayed in the bio) or if there were absolutely no exceptions.

And my suggestion, if the answer to the question above is that all tieflings must be chaotic, regardless of any reasons presented in a bio, that this should be changed. I think that, like orcs, drow, and other generally evil creatures, that it should be need to display a reason why the creature is different than others of its type.

Also, I had always thought Tieflings were more compelled to be evil than chaotic, and that some tieflings were the spawns of devils, which would make them more lawfully based. I have not read that this is different anywhere in the tiefling description. As such, it would only make sense that those tieflings that descend from devils are lawfully inclined.

A good story should be able to override the restrictions, and provide proof that a creature could be an exception to the general rule. For example, the character idea I have been thinking of trying out would be a tiefling monk... however, due to the restrictions it is not possible for a Tiefling to play a monk, even though a good story and reasoning could be used to show why a tiefling would end up as such a class.

Also, as a final point, there are only two options for a tiefling to play for an alignment. This is Chaotic Good and Chaotic Neutral. Since Chaotic Neutral is a restricted alignment for newer players, it doesn't seem to make sense that there is only one playable alignment for a new character. However, I suppose this could also have been done on purpose to restrict the number tieflings in the world.

All in all, I'll be fine if nothing is changed, it just seemed to me like the rule could be revised a bit.

--Ne'er

[Eight-Bit]

Ne'er - 6/30/2006 9:12 PM I was wondering first, is the alignment restriction on Tieflings a hard and fast rule, that all Tieflings must be of a choatic alignment? I wanted to know if there were any suggestions (i.e. a multitude of good reasons displayed in the bio) or if there were absolutely no exceptions. And my suggestion, if the answer to the question above is that all tieflings must be chaotic, regardless of any reasons presented in a bio, that this should be changed. I think that, like orcs, drow, and other generally evil creatures, that it should be need to display a reason why the creature is different than others of its type. Also, I had always thought Tieflings were more compelled to be evil than chaotic, and that some tieflings were the spawns of devils, which would make them more lawfully based. I have not read that this is different anywhere in the tiefling description. As such, it would only make sense that those tieflings that descend from devils are lawfully inclined. A good story should be able to override the restrictions, and provide proof that a creature could be an exception to the general rule. For example, the character idea I have been thinking of trying out would be a tiefling monk... however, due to the restrictions it is not possible for a Tiefling to play a monk, even though a good story and reasoning could be used to show why a tiefling would end up as such a class. Also, as a final point, there are only two options for a tiefling to play for an alignment. This is Chaotic Good and Chaotic Neutral. Since Chaotic Neutral is a restricted alignment for newer players, it doesn't seem to make sense that there is only one playable alignment for a new character. However, I suppose this could also have been done on purpose to restrict the number tieflings in the world. All in all, I'll be fine if nothing is changed, it just seemed to me like the rule could be revised a bit. --Ne'er

 As a long time player, I tend to agree. I believe that the Chaotic nature of their alignment is made to represent how much of an outsider their blood has made them, yet in any right you can spot outsiders of many alignments. In particular, all of my characters. Or is it just me? Regardless, the new cool is uncool. Cool is so uncool. Uncool is so totally cool.

[darkstorme]

I think the most reasonable explanation for the current situation is that the chaotic alignment limitation represents the internal struggle a tiefling suffers with the voices and impulses bequeathed them by their heritage (or other source of demonic/diabolic blood.)

However, unless Tieflings in Layonara are the descendants of demonic progeny only, I don't see why the rule couldn't be changed.  A Tiefling of diabolic descent, rather than demonic, ought, by rights, to be lawful.  He may still struggle with the evil inherent in his heritage, but this shouldn't affect his take on the law/chaos scale.

I think that Ne'er raises a valid point - though whether it's worth easing the restriction is, as always, up to the balance experts.

[Eorendil]

Yeah... I tried that.. =( And the original bio was really good too. I was going to go LN Tiefling Monk with Meira.. Well, I ended up going a totally different route cause Chaotic is pretty much it for Tieflings in Layo. She's an okay character. I like her but she's not what I initially envisioned.

[Variable]

Demons are always chaotic by nature, and devils are lawful. It is because Layo Tieflings are restricted to chaotic that they are from demonic heritage.

[Acacea]

They aren't restricted to demonic heritage. (Hence the thread.)

I think it's more of an internal struggle type chaos. *Waves a hand.* That thing.

[Variable]

Layo Tieflings are restricted to demonic heritage from what I understand. (I know Dnd tieflings are not, but they are also any EVIL, which would make them unavailable in Layonara if we followed those rules).

Every race no matter what will have some "internal struggle type chaos". A tiefling however may be more prone to display this because of the chaotic demonic heritage.

@Meira,
In Dnd tieflings are limited to any evil so for both Dnd and Layo, an LN tiefling would not work.

@Ne'er
While there are some points that you bring up that I agree with. In Dnd and Layo there have always been restrictions on characters that do not make, complete sense for some RP situation. However they should be enforced since it is how the game and races have been designed to work. And make these rules make Huge generalizations about races especially. (Evil Drow anyone?)

Also on your point of there being only one alignment for new players. I personally think that it is good to limit this race like that. Otherwise i feel that Hlint would be overrun with as many Tieflings as there are Drow and Aasimar.

From LORE:

Tieflings and their planar opposites the Aasimar are the two planetouched playable races found in Layonara. Tieflings are natives of planes of chaos and evil. They have some amount of demonic blood somewhere in their ancestry, but should not be mistaken for half-demons, as their abyssal heritage is much more dilute, never more than 1/8th of their blood and most often the demonic influence is even farther in their past than that. While some claim to have descended directly from the Gods, it is more likely a cover story to divert other's attentions from the fact that one of their ancestors was a Demon. However, most of them cannot trace their heritage back to a specific fiendish being.

Personality:
Due to their abyssal heritage, tieflings are a sinister and cunning people, often drawn to the path of a rogue and mercenary work. The majority of tieflings have an evil alignment and do not get along well with most other people.

- http://nwn.layonara.com/tiefling

[Talan Va'lash]

I've surmised that Layo tieflings are only from demonic (abyssal) heritage.
 
  As stated previoiusly in this thread, thats the only thing that makes sense with the alignment restriction. A human with some amount of fiendish (devil...ic) heritage would NOT NOT NOT lean toward a chaotic alignment.
 
  Layo tieflings are different from the monster manual tieflings.
 

[Acacea]

I wasn't saying it made perfect sense, just that I thought that was the intent behind the restriction (whether or not it did make sense), and can think of a few tieflings approved on Layo with infernal heritage...

[EdTheKet]

This is under discussion at the moment. Stay tuned

[Rayenoir]

Variable - 7/6/2006  12:35 PM

Layo Tieflings are restricted to demonic heritage from what I understand. (I know Dnd tieflings are not, but they are also any EVIL, which would make them unavailable in Layonara if we followed those rules).

*snip*

@Meira,
In Dnd tieflings are limited to any evil so for both Dnd and Layo, an LN tiefling would not work.

*snip*

That says "Usually" evil.  Checking the front of the book, "Usually" in front of an alignment means at any given point, 50% of the whole of the race is an alignment of that kind, what you will run into more often than not.  So... the other half of the tiefers in the multiverse can be whatever they want.  Even "always" doesn't necessarily mean always in the D&D glossary.

Check under elves.  It says "usually" chaotic good there too, I believe.

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

Ray - I can't even REMEMBER the last time I saw a CG Elf. CG Drow, OH yeah, but never elves. *He chuckles.*

In any case, I have to say that I'd agree with Tiefers at the very least being any Non-Lawful.

Besides, since when does Chaotic mean that the character is NEVER careful and methodic?

[EdTheKet]

The Tiefling description has been updated. Alignment remains CG or CN for Player characters to reflect the internal struggle of dealing with being of fiendish descent (note: fiendish can mean demonic or devil).

[Varnart]

I understand the "internal struggle", but what if a tiefling didn't struggle, but embrace its devil heritage? I'd say definitely LN or LE then. As I understand it, many people want to play a lawful tiefling, because currently we have NO race traditionally aligned as Lawful Evil. Drow, Orcs Goblins are CE, and half-ogres are more chaotic as I understand it. This leaves us the tiefling to turn to, but the only way for us to play a tiefling is either CG or play a LOT till CN. I don't know about the others, but I myself have always liked to play lawful tieflings, especially LE. Now, I understand that evil is rare, but we should at least be able to keep the lawful part. As it stands, the only way of us playing a character with an evil racial influence is with a CE influence, which is not appelative to many. I believe that the tiefling alignment restriction should be changed to "Any Nongood", but that's just me. I do understand that some people like their CG tieflings, but I think it's WAY more plausible to have a LN than a CG tiefling.
 Now, I only have to get people to actually hate drow and goblins instead of being nice to us, but that's a rant for another time...

[Rayenoir]

If I'm not mistaken, duergar are the predominant LE race currently available.

[Varnart]

Who likes dwarves?

[Faldred]

Varnart - 8/16/2006  3:59 AM

Who likes dwarves?

Other dwarves.  Sometimes.

[Eight-Bit]

Thank you for the update on that Ed. I've been RPing Key as a Baatorian Tiefling since day one, and to change all of that because of a simple alingment restriction would really just be a bummer. As for the point that Tieflings -have- to be Demonic because of the alignment restrictions, I believe that is way off for how Layonara is. That would just be a needless rule that would limit the possibilities of a Tiefling's roleplaying potential.