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Author Topic: "Common Sense" Statements for Character Submissions...  (Read 383 times)

Nehetsrev

"Common Sense" Statements for Character Submissions...
« on: August 25, 2009, 01:51:44 pm »
It seems like it's once again time to address a commonly recurring issue that could be avoided if all players knew what was expected of them from the start and applied common sense to their role-play time in-game.
 
 In the past week I've reminded several (new?) players through tells that they really ought not to be going through town in animal/monster forms because:
 
 1) The NPC's in those towns likely wouldn't be able to tell they were actually people and not whatever beastie they look like and thus would react in a hostile manner to defend their town if they could be repressented properly in-game to do so.
 
 2) Layonara is supposed to be a relatively low-magic world, where people who can shift forms or polymorph (as well as summon familiars, 'tame' animal companions, or conjure summoned beings, and any other magic ability) are not altogether common, again adding to the potential of a hostile reaction from NPC commoners.
 
 So, that said, here's my idea: Why not add a "Common Sense in Using Polymorph, Shifting, and Summons, Familiars, and Animal Companions Statement" to the character application and approval process that works much like the Dogma Statements required for Clerics/Paladin? These statements could (and in my opinion at this point -should-) be required for players who wish to play Druids, Shifters, Rangers, Wizards, or Sorcerors.
 
 Statement 1 - "I have read the rules and acknowledge that common sense dictates my character should not be in shifted or polymorphed form while within a civilized area such as a town, outpost, city or fort, with the exception of events involving DM interaction and supervision, and I agree to follow this common sense rule while playing my character."
 
 Statement 2 - "I have read the rules and acknowledge that common sense dictates my character should not be accompanied by a creature (summons, familiar, or animal companion) that by its appearance would be considered threateneing by NPC's living in a town, outpost, city, or fort that I am within or about to enter and I will dismiss such creatures before entering such a settled/civilized area when I play my character. The exception being during a DM supervised event such as a quest or impromptu."
 
 Statement 3 - "I acknowledge that even during a DM supervised event, I should expect NPC's controlled by the DM(s) to react accordingly to the pressence of myself in shifted or polymorphed forms, or to any of my summons, familiars, or animal companions."
 
 
 
 My feeling is that if players are confronted with these common sense rules before they enter the world, they'll be more likely to follow them once in play, and thus preserve the feel of immersion in the world of Layonara for themselves, and everyone else.
 
The following users thanked this post: Jilseponie Wyndon, Anamnesis, Hellblazer, Script Wrecked, Lance Stargazer

Hellblazer

Re: "Common Sense" Statements for Character Submissions...
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2009, 05:01:38 pm »
I agree with a lot of things in your post, although I would suggest not to automatically put that 3 things in the submissions for one simple reasons. We have to remember that common sense for us ooc in this* case, will be objective to ther alignment of the character in RP. What is common sense for a good char or lawful (if it is a law) will not be the same for an Evil or neutral char.
 
 Ever since the evil alignment has been open, this is also something that would fall under the things evil personas would do. Infact, chaotic neutral and True neutral would probably also fit in those that may not automatically follow those common sense things.
 
 On the other hand, I would agree that a "good" or any "lawful" (yes even the evil one) character should abide but that statement.
 
 *pointing out that in this case of summons in a town and not the other common sense things about cnrs, pvp etc.

lonnarin

Re: "Common Sense" Statements for Character Submissions...
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2009, 05:07:00 pm »
I think this would best be solved with town guards being possessed by GMs and beating the polymorphed players and their familiars to death. ;)
 

Jilseponie Wyndon

Re: "Common Sense" Statements for Character Submissions...
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2009, 06:45:59 pm »
Its not just new players.  I have seen older ones do so as well, yet they seem to have an excuse every time.  Now in some cases though, if you think about it, the very same actions by NPC's in town/city/forts ... could be done by regular players out in the wilderness or on roads as well.  Many a time I have passed the occasional Troll or Umberhulk toodling down a road.  Who is to say a regular player would not react in the same way and automatically attack?  Would you stop and question every ugly evil type creature you see wandering about or would you automatically attack it before it has a chance to strike at you first?  As for "Common Sense" added in ... you really think it would make much of a difference?  People still bring oxes into a building ... people still cast spells in Prantz, the shapechange/familiar thing  has been mentioned before and other minor infractions ... still happen.  Changing things to add "Common sense" into the requirements will not make much of a difference.  The only thing that will is a constant survey on the DM's part to have the local Guards/NPC's attack any familiar/polymorph person in such places.  Whether to kill or not ... well, which would get the message across better?  Just my 2 true.
 

Nehetsrev

Re: "Common Sense" Statements for Character Submissions...
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2009, 07:20:01 pm »
First to address Hellblazer's point, at least what I think his point was:
 
 A Character's Alignment would have little or nothing to do with the way the NPC's -should/would- react to them committing the Act.   However, since the multitude of NPC's and their reactions cannot be depicted properly in-game due to game mechanics & limittations of the game engine, and because DM's are not online 24/7 to police Players, it falls on us as Players to police ourselves responsibly in these regards.
 
 
 Addressing Ionnarin:
 
 I agree, DM's should more actively pursue enforcement against such acts.  However, as stated above, DM's aren't online 24/7 to do so, nor do they always have the time or wish to do so when they are online, because they're usually busy running fun quests or whatever.
 
 
 Addressing Jilseponie:
 
 I'm not saying my idea would solve all the problems you've mentioned of players doing things they really ought to know better than to do, but at least it might make some of them think twice before beginning to start some of those bad habbits in the first place.
 
 Heck, I'd prefer a system where the NPC guards were programmed to attack on sight characters of monstrous races, polymorphed/shifted characters and familiars/summons/animal companions brought within city limits, but I realize that'd take a heck of a lot more work to actually implement than this idea.  For one there'd be the AI scripting of the NPC's to work out, and then you'd also have to make paths around all the cities/forts/towns so that movement about the world wouldn't be completely impossible for characters of monstrous races to get around and have more or less equal opportunities as the rest of the characters.
 
 So, in the end, it comes back again to us players to be responsible for how we play.  I'll keep reminding folks in tells, and I'll also try to react appropriately in-character to attack or flee from such threats as they appear to my character.  I'll continue to pray for more DM's to police such acts in towns as well.  There's a reason we have PvP widgets now, mine haven't been getting as much use as they should I guess, because I try to be a nice person OOC and avoid PvP because I know not eveybody enjoys it.  I know I really don't enjoy PvP much.  But if that's what it's going to take... *shrugs*
 

jrizz

Re: "Common Sense" Statements for Character Submissions...
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2009, 07:20:44 pm »
Shift into a dog, house cat, rat, pigeon, ducks, or ox and you should be fine
 

Hellblazer

Re: "Common Sense" Statements for Character Submissions...
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2009, 08:42:49 pm »
My point wasn't on how a npc would react. My point is that a Tn, CN, may or may not feel the need to respect that heart felt disposition not to scare towns folks and NE, wouldn't give a pink unicorn right cheek hide, that they would scare people with their summons, they might even get a kick out of it. what we concider ooc common sense about that fact, may not apply in RP, due to the alignment and predisposition of a persona. That is why I suggest that if such points have to be made in a bio from now on, that it be limited to lawful and/or good aligned character.
 
 True, the gm don't have much time to patrol that, and this is why there is a feeling that it should be enforced equally throughout all players, but to do so would trunk RP for those chars that does not conform to the "well seen" mold.
 
 There would always be the possibility for the team to add and attack summons/familiar/companion script to the guards, and I think I saw one already made on the vault a year ago. And to also put a check active spell script for polymorphed or shapechanged effect on a char and have the guards attack those character/animal companion/familiar/summons on sight. But I understand that this might be a lot of work and this is why the rely more on common sense. Yet again, as a RP world, we have to think of how our chars would act. Would he be that type? would his alignment have any effect on how he feels about scaring little child? that's the real thing that should be done, and understand from all players. If your character feels that some one should not bring his familiar/animal companion/ summons/ polymorphedself into town, then they should tell them in character and/ or poke a gm on irc and try to get something rolling.
 
 That's my own view though and might not fit all.
 
 But again as I said before, I agree with a lot of things of your post, but with the distinction that it should be lawful and/ or good chars, not all of them.

lonnarin

Re: "Common Sense" Statements for Character Submissions...
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2009, 10:08:14 pm »
Quote from: jrizz
Shift into a dog, house cat, rat, pigeon, ducks, or ox and you should be fine


Nah, then they see the name text over your head and metagame that they know that you're really not a cat.  Just watch the people who obsessively chase Grovel in cat form, and ignore the Hlint kitties. :P
 

Script Wrecked

Re: "Common Sense" Statements for Character Submissions...
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2009, 10:18:52 pm »
Quote from: Hellblazer
My point wasn't on how a npc would react. My point is that a Tn, CN, may or may not feel the need to respect that heart felt disposition not to scare towns folks and NE, wouldn't give a pink unicorn right cheek hide, that they would scare people with their summons, they might even get a kick out of it. what we concider ooc common sense about that fact, may not apply in RP, due to the alignment and predisposition of a persona. That is why I suggest that if such points have to be made in a bio from now on, that it be limited to lawful and/or good aligned character.
 
 True, the gm don't have much time to patrol that, and this is why there is a feeling that it should be enforced equally throughout all players, but to do so would trunk RP for those chars that does not conform to the "well seen" mold.

...
 
 But again as I said before, I agree with a lot of things of your post, but with the distinction that it should be lawful and/ or good chars, not all of them.


Nehetsrev's point is that the PC wouldn't be able to do it at all (alignment or roleplay notwithstanding) because on the first attempt the PC would be dead, but for the AI.

Technically, its an abuse of the AI. Therefore it is an OOC issue and is applicable to all players, not certain characters on the basis of their alignment.

Regards,

Script Wrecked.
 

ycleption

Re: "Common Sense" Statements for Character Submissions...
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2009, 10:20:04 pm »
Quote from: Hellblazer
My point wasn't on how a npc would react. My point is that a Tn, CN, may or may not feel the need to respect that heart felt disposition not to scare towns folks and NE, wouldn't give a pink unicorn right cheek hide, that they would scare people with their summons, they might even get a kick out of it.


And that's fine for them, but it completely misses the point of the prohibitions - that if a character waltzes into a city in umberhulk form, they essentially are metagaming a lack of response on behalf of the guards and populace.

Nobody is saying that a player can't grab a DM and say "hey, my character is going to do something provocative, can you come NPC as needed?"
 

Script Wrecked

Re: "Common Sense" Statements for Character Submissions...
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2009, 10:57:16 pm »
Quote from: Nehetsrev
It seems like it's once again time to address a commonly recurring issue that could be avoided if all players knew what was expected of them from the start and applied common sense to their role-play time in-game.

...
 
 My feeling is that if players are confronted with these common sense rules before they enter the world, they'll be more likely to follow them once in play, and thus preserve the feel of immersion in the world of Layonara for themselves, and everyone else.


Perhaps the (new) players need a primer along the lines of "Whats In The Game But You Can't See It". It would list such things as the general populace(1) and guards. It would note that the Areas are not adjacent to each other, but many days travel apart. That these aren't the same group of monsters you slaughtered an hour ago, but another band that you've chanced upon in a slightly different part of the forest.

Further in might note that most Areas are, in fact, a "condensed" representation of an "area". This means that population centers are much bigger than depicted, even though their perimeter might be wholly within an Area (a la Fort Llast). That places within an Area might not as close together as they appear, viz, the Haven Mine entrance in relation to Haven City, the Red Light Caves in relation to the entrance to Hlint, the coastal cliffs in the West Outskirts of Blackford Castle(2), et cetera.

Perhaps a few pointers might go a long way.

Regards,

Script Wrecked.



(1) perhaps Population Signs outside of population centers might given some sort of IG heads up to the number of people who are actually living there
(2) Blackford Castle is some 500 "statute miles" inland
 

Script Wrecked

Re: "Common Sense" Statements for Character Submissions...
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2009, 11:37:54 pm »
Quote from: lonnarin
Nah, then they see the name text over your head and metagame that they know that you're really not a cat.  Just watch the people who obsessively chase Grovel in cat form, and ignore the Hlint kitties. :P


*sighs*