Couple more ideas, Lockout timer & teleport

[Shiokara]

On the subject of binding and hearthing, I liked Acacea's idea of an IC Gem of Remembrance. If I'm not mistaken current lore states that on death the players soul is pulled back to the bindstone after going through its whole ordeal and the body is transported and reconnected to the soul. Well, to justify the IC recall, someone could WLDQ or something to create an object which essentially separates the soul from the body thereby calling both to be sent to one's respective bindstone. Of course it'd be up to that player how to rig said item such that the character doesn't have to meet the harbinger, soul mother, or get pulled into the thread, but it might be a nice RP justification of things.

Of course, you could always say such a device is never fool proof and have its use tied to a 1/100 (critical failure chance) of losing a SS. That would help decrease abuse, I'm sure.

For the MMO this tech could be role-played as improved such that one would no longer go through that. I also think that the MMO should have it available at all levels or at least at a very low level since it will be a game that is intended to be more commercially viable/accessible.

For NWN I could see it going either way. If low-levels abused it, they really wouldn't have that serious of an impact on the world. I.E. if I'm full of oak and hearth so I can hit up the craft hall, there isn't any serious repercussion on the game's economy or any of its systems. It's just kind of like, "Really? You did that? Yeesh." It's just questionable RP-wise.

The other convenient thing about this item if it gets tied to the bindstone is this: It will only the stonebound (adventurers) will be able to use such items. It's not even necessary that an NPC invent this. One could "uncover" the item from some ruin of those who left the stones in the first place.

Just some thoughts for RP justification.

[Shiokara]

I actually like the fact that a trip to emeralds or mithril takes as long as it does because it is the main deterant to over mining.  If it was possible to get those items quicker then the rarity and value of those items would fall drastically.  I think most people could set the time aside to go after them if they really, really wanted to and if they had a good group to go with.  It just takes planning.

If you don't want to make the trip then you will simply have to pay for those resources to those that do make the trip.

If you get into the trip and you have an emergency or a problem come up and have to log, then you can always ask for a GM port, tome out, log off in a safe area and ask for a GM port the next day or arrange for a rescue party at a certain time.

I think if you take away the length of the trip, then the spawns that guard it should be made more powerful to balance that and keep the precious rare items like they are.

Another note to point out here is: If these items are made easier to get from any such suggestion, players should not be surprised if said items fall in price do to easier, more frequent trips becoming available. *cough* Not to bring up any previously discussed price fixing threads or anything.

[Guardian 452]

Gear lasts forever......The price of Emeralds, Mithril and honestly everything in the loot table going down is 100% un avoidable in this version of Layonara. Yes I was one of them who chimed in on the price falling too low... and I still think some were selling too low.

As it stands now there are enough players who can (in theory) make the trip daily for Mithril and Emeralds that if they choose to could flood the market, my character included.... however I have no plans of selling anything I have obtained at this time..... and when I do you can rest asured it wont be sold for "X" amount less than what the other guys sell for.


But allow me to steer this back a bit more on topic.....


The above proposed ideas could in fact slow that down. If they put a 24 hour to 36 hour (maybe longer?) lock out on the area after you left, and add a teleport home feature to all classes. Yes many more might be able to acces these areas now but EVERY one who goes will have this same lockout. So it still has a means of slowing it down.

Thank you GM and Content teams for monitoring the discussion of the two proposed ideas further.

I hope a good, ON TOPIC, disscussion continues.

G-452


.

[Dorganath]

Without taking a position for or against any of the proposals and ideas stated in this thread, I think it's worthwhile to inject the following perspective into this discussion in the interest of something potentially positive for the community as a whole coming from it.

Some similar, perhaps even complementary, concepts were raised in a recent thread asking the community what they wanted from Layonara.  There was a lot of feedback from that thread, some of which the GM Team has looked at very closely.  As a general concept, the issues surrounding long runs and how they are somewhat exclusionary to those who are not in the "powergamer" set or who simply do not have large blocks of time to devote to long adventuring runs have been discussed by the te

I will not disclose the nature of these discussions, but I do want to bring up a very important point.

I have heard (and come up with) several reasons for and against a "teleport" available to everyone.  Many of the ideas and concepts raised in this thread mirror many things that have been discussed/considered/etc.

The key issue is that the length of runs impacts one particular group of people the most:  The "casual gamer"

This category of player has limited time and doesn't want to be left out, but often finds that there just isn't enough time in the schedule to enjoy the fun and rewards of adventuring within the constraints of their schedules. One-way exits and "recall" type teleports (whatever you may call them) are two ways to address this. Though of course, each needs some sort of meaningful limitation which is accommodating to the casual player without opening things up for abuse by those who would take undue advantage of a mechanical path-of-ease.

To a lesser degree, the length of runs also impacts those who usually have some available time but who may fall victim to the dreaded "RL Monster", be it kids, or a work emergency or any number of other unexpected interruptions.

So, as you all continue your considerations and debate, it would be beneficial to keep in mind this basic idea.  Whatever system (or set of systems) that we might put in place really needs to be focused toward accommodating the casual player and the cases of RL emergency while discouraging the over-use, abuse and exploitation by people who have tons of time to spend and who are just looking for a quick, free ride back to civilization.

The context of this is, of course, for NWN only.

Thank you all for your comments so far and your contributions.

And as G said, let's keep this focused on-topic for everyone's benefit.

[jrizz]

Teleportation by all characters? Well, I know mages work their butt off to reach 14th level to obtain the Tome of Teleportation

To be more true to the current state of layo, rare is the player that works their butt off to get to level 14. More like most grind as fast as they can to get to 14th level. So the "getting" of the "reward" is already cheapened.

Sorry to be so blunt but that is more accurate.

[Acacea]

Most changes like these have many other effects than just those proposed, so it is natural to attempt keeping perspective in mind while also trying to contribute to the narrower focus of the thread. Increase, supply, and other previous concerns of the community, while not specifically the topic, would most certainly be taken into account by monitoring GMs so addressing them ahead of time is always a good thing. No need to be rude.

(Edit - I had this on a quick reply before Dorg and jrizz posted, and forgot to press enter. Sorry!)

[Hellblazer]

Never tried it before, but unless there is some mechanical code in place, buy a housing portal, set it and abandon it at your camp in the deep... Do not see any RP reason why you cannot do that, and does not seem like it could be classified as an exploit, at least at this point in time. Would be concerned about an Army of Dark Elves using it to access locations on the other end though... LOL

Personally, I think if you want to teleport, play a mage or druid.

Beside quest chest, you can't put any other placeable in an outdoor tagged area.

[jrizz]

Good topic G. I have to walk away from a lot of trips because I know I only have time for half the trip or so. A way to be able to do these trips and still have a "way out" would be great.

[Ravemore]

Beside quest chest, you can't put any other placeable in an outdoor tagged area.

Thanks for clearing that up... never tried it myself.

[Shiokara]

To make an argument for one of the ideas floating around:

How about an item that is one-time use only at high cost sold by a town vendor, like an arcanist goods salesman?

This really does balance things relatively well.

1) It acts as a money sink to help drain away the excess. (More importantly, it will do such only for the richer characters who can afford it.)

2) The cost will render it virtually unabused because it won't be worth it for lower characters to use since they won't be able to cover the cost.

3) A ludicrously high price will keep it from being used except in those situations which are emergencies.

4) A ludicrously high price will make it so that it is only used during those trips which the buyer is likely to make profit greater than or equal to its cost.

5) The money sinking from buying this item should help high level CNR retain balanced prices. (Difficulty of accessibility decreases, but overall cost of the trip increases.)

Needless to say it should be on a vendor for which donation discounts do not apply, and one that has a higher DC against the haggling skills. Though I don't know if either of these exist?

[Hellblazer]

Needless to say it should be on a vendor for which donation discounts do not apply, and one that has a higher DC against the haggling skills. Though I don't know if either of these exist?

not that I've seen.

[Guardian 452]

Making it a money sink as well could be yet another potential for taking coin out of the game. Hopefully keeping people from buying them and using them like candy... and yet.. keeping the price realistic enough for people who truly would benefit from them can still afford them.

I think some kind of timer system would still have to be tied to the use of it... so no one could in just run in ... load up.. and poof im out. Risne and repeat every single night.


.

[EdTheKet]

Well:

To make an argument for one of the ideas floating around:

How about an item that is one-time use only at high cost sold by a town vendor, like an arcanist goods salesman?

This really does balance things relatively well.

1) It acts as a money sink to help drain away the excess. (More importantly, it will do such only for the richer characters who can afford it.)

2) The cost will render it virtually unabused because it won't be worth it for lower characters to use since they won't be able to cover the cost.

3) A ludicrously high price will keep it from being used except in those situations which are emergencies.

4) A ludicrously high price will make it so that it is only used during those trips which the buyer is likely to make profit greater than or equal to its cost.

5) The money sinking from buying this item should help high level CNR retain balanced prices. (Difficulty of accessibility decreases, but overall cost of the trip increases.)

6. A ludicrous high price can be detrimental to casual players, because they usually have less gold than people who have ample time to play.

Just goes to show that systems are not as easily developed as it sometimes sounds

[Guardian 452]

Ok well here is another angle I havnt seen taken yet...

Instead of a Coin cost for this call home feature.... how about an XP cost? Again this is more costly to the average gamer than the hard core player.

I keep comming back to a lockout timer...  lol

[HooD!uM]

How about some sort of teleport spell, or better yet a mass teleport spell which would work like the tomes, a single teleport spell would take the targeted person to the anchored spot where the Mage set it and theass teleport would take the whole party ( that's on the same area) to said anchor spot as well. That way if someone needs to leave, the Mage can send them back to safety...

[HooD!uM]

Oh..and it dosent need to be a teleport spell(which is still good) but a dimension door or something....

[HooD!uM]

ill just elaborate on this a little. When people goto the deep, they have at least on mage, at relitivily high level. With either teleport, mass teleport or dimension door, they canot goto a anchor that is below ground, so the mage will have to anchor somewhere topside, that way they cant just mass teleport back into the deep for another mining trip so to speak, that way you wont even need to have a lockout timer, cause honestly..lockout timers dont really bring the feel of realnist in a world like layonara.

[RollinsCat]

A single-use item scaled price-wise to char level then?

for example:

three-ten, one thousand

ten-fifteen, five thousand

fifteen-twenty, ten thousand

etc.

also, can Layo items be made unique?  Only one in inventory at a time?

I thought of a timer on the use, say once per rl week, but then that limits the use for actual emergencies.

[Dorganath]

Again, I would remind people of my last post, and Ed's last as well.

Things that have high costs, whether gold or XP, will more negatively impact the causal player or the player who has emergent RL situations.  For the player who can spend large amounts of time playing and reaping the gold and XP rewards of such, there is far less of an impact.  This doesn't really help the problem at all, and in fact, makes things better for the more hard-core gamer and worse for the casual gamer and the victim of circumstance.

[lonnarin]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around this "teleporting after mining is exploiting" thing.  So If I storm a castle to kill the king and I know there are 60 employed guards within the castle, I am expected to kill 60 guards, kill the king, and then upon leaving the throne room kill those same 60 guards again who have for some reason risen from the dead without a cleric present?  How about if I spent too much time using the chamberpot, am I to expect the decapitated king to stand back up, screw his head back on atop his neck-hole, and fight me again?  Because with the NWN respawn timer system, that's exactly what happens.  Putting a one-way transition at he end of the dungeon which takes you back out to the dungeon entrance is something that's been done sine Legend of Zelda.  Link holds up the triforce segment, he cheers, the screen fades to black and he walks out the dungeon entrance.  The only real reason to play through the same dungeon again is if it's somehow different on the way up.   If it's the same, then killing them twice is considered camping, no?