Whips

[NEXUS7]

Hi this has been talked about and I have been told in the next Vertion that Whips will be better
But I seem to rember that Sonic wepons where not in Layonara.
After looking at the chat I would say Whips would be a better wepon if they

HAve things added with the normel level restrions and the like

1: Could Trip as a feat
2: Do Sonic atacks (I love the crack sound they make in combat)
3: Could have a grater range
4: Could stun for a round (with the normel defance rolls)
5: Could not unduse atacks of opatunity
6: Could couses fear
7: Could Blind
8: Could have a slowing efeact
9: could reduces miral

THats just some of the thinks that came out of the posts

I know some seem high but whips are all but usless now.

Thats my input

How about ignore AC bonus if foe is using a shield.

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

Ugh. Let me lend a little PnP wisdom to you.

Trip isn't a feat; a trip attack can be made with certain types of weapons, and not others. I imagine in NWN, the system has to have it as a feat. As such, those types of weapons would add that feat.

Sonic attacks... You're crazy. If the thing's got a sonic bonus on it, sure, but the crack sound is just the sound it makes when it strikes.

Greater range? Absolutely. They're a reach weapon, in PnP.

Stun for a round? That's a Called Shot, no matter what you're doing it with. Adding the property to a weapon is ridiculous; most of the things we're fighting are battle-hardened, and won't be stunned for six seconds when a whip cracks next to thier face.

Could not induce attacks of opportunity? Well, sure, if you have the Prestige Class Master Lasher. Otherwise, no. It's a reach weapon, genius.

Causing fear? Why?

Blind? Called Shot, again.

Slowing effect? Just... Why?

I think you meant to say "morale," and that's another idea that just doesn't make sense.

Whips should do 1d4S+STR. Here, they do 1d2+STR, because NWN doesn't have subdual damage. You can use weapons you're not proficient in in PnP, but not NWN; with the proficiency feat should come the automatic damage conversion to slashing. Raise it to a d4, if not a d6. It requires a whole feat to use, and since all it does is hit people, same as a shortbow, but with a much shorter range...

But if anything should be able to have a Sonic effect added (NOT automatic), it's a whip.

[Leanthar]

Stephen, I don't think you meant your post to be taken as it seems to come across--at least I hope not. It comes across as biting and very sarcastic.  Please make sure you give back constructive criticism, not deflating.  Thanks.

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

Aye; point taken. It was a bit biting... As for sarcastic, when am I not?  

But aye, I'll keep it a bit kinder. It's been something of a rough day; no reason to take it out on others.

Still... I really don't understand, Nex, where some of those came from. If you could explain it, that would be grand.

*Goes hunting for caffiene.*

[Tedulas]

How about something like knockdown?
Because the whip could have the ability to wrap around their foes and pull them to the ground for a while, like not sure how many rounds or seconds but just a thought...

[NEXUS7]

>Stephen Zuckerman
I think the big L said it all there, but I’m a big old grumpy gett as well so I know where ya coming from
When you say you have had a rough day.

>Still... I really don't understand, Nex, where some of those came from. If you could explain it, that would be grand.
Sit ya self down drink ya coffee and get ready
Heres where I’m coming from

Whips SUCK! SUCK!SUCK!SUCK!SUCK!
They are utterly useless you get the disarm which you can not use.
But it gos deeper than that even in the Books they still suck.

Whips should not work on be a STR Bonus they should e DEX
I have use a whip and know that STR has very little to do with the use of them
Its DEX and Skill.

Whips are a terra weapon they do, do damage but it’s the ability SHOCK in combat and trip

In Layonara you can empower weapons with fire, could and electricity doing D damage on top
If the normal damage so I’m asking that sonic bonus be allowed to be added to whips.
That would be in Keeping with the sound that a Whip makes.
So I Agre with you on this  

>But if anything should be able to have a Sonic effect added (NOT automatic), it's a whip.

When I siad Trip feat I ment
Expertise (I13) ---> Improved Trip as the Trip feat
So a whip would give you improved trip n PnP terms
My smistake there


>Sonic attacks...
ment sonic bonus Done this one above

>Greater range? Absolutely. They're a reach weapon, in PnP.  
OK with thith this

>Stun for a round? That's a Called Shot, no matter what you're doing it with.
>Adding the property to a weapon is ridiculous; most of the things we're fighting are battle-hardened,
>and won't be stunned for six seconds when a whip cracks next to thier face.
I think not here Its not just a called shot, its an efect part of the sonic bonus/attck
I crit could gve us this only as an small area efect. We live in a world of magic
Thats part of the way the world of Layonara works. So your just plain wrong here.
Whips would stun in a world of magic.
Whips can have that stun limited to work in game.

>Could not induce attacks of opportunity? Well, sure, if you have the Prestige Class Master Lasher. Otherwise, no. It's a reach weapon, genius.
This gos back the the grater range point with in the software of NWN it could be better to just give that than try change the range.

>Causing fear? Why?
See above on wepon of terra

>Blind? Called Shot, again.
Wrong again can be effect or spell

>Slowing effect? Just... Why?
See Fear

>I think you meant to say "morale," and that's another idea that just doesn't make sense.
Morale meants a genaral term for there willing nus to fight a bards cused song afeacts the Morale
of aponets thus lowering thare atacks chance.

Last of all Ive been a PnP GM for 25 years, played more than just DnD in all its forms
GMed at cons all over the world and have been a play tester for meny games.
Doing GURPS Magic now which is very broken.
Look at Enlarge and Shapeshift added and you will see what i mean.
So please dont take me for a green horn thanks.
showing Rule book pages at each others is not what PnP and I hope Layonaras about.
I dont know of any GM who did not change rules they felt got in the way of a good game and fun for all.
*waves James Bond RPG book*
 

[NEXUS7]

>Tedulas
>How about something like knockdown?
>Because the whip could have the ability to wrap around their foes and pull them to the ground for a while, like not sure how many rounds or seconds but just a thought...

Yep thats what i think could be a good thing to add to a whip

[Ne'er]

Alright, I'm pretty sure the question of whips came up before, and it really does make sense that a whip is a horrible choice for a combat weapon. After all, what good is the whip going to do to a heavily armored warrior? And while a whip is painful, it is far less deadly then, say, a sword or an axe. So it really doesn't make sense to raise the amount of damage down.

The tripping makes sense, but that's all I can really think of. And even that would require a bit of skill, such as taking the knockdown feat.

[Eloyn]

If instead of disarm, it had knockdown, it would still be pretty useless unless someone who had all the whip feats and had a good AB would be able to hit anything.  But no point in knockdown becaus you can't do any damage.  It would only be good if it had a slightly larger attack range than a sword or axe, and would be good in groups.  It should somehow give you a bonus on your knockdown checks maybe.

[EdTheKet]

Orth is working on the whips, patience people, patience

[Pankoki]

[orange]While I totally not agree with just about anything that has been put forward in this thread, I wanted to make clear that the whole Strength / Dexterity based thing is incorrect as you point it out.  A whip is a small weapon, as such if your character has the Weapon Finesse feat he or she will use their Dexterity modifier for their to-hit bonus. Instead of their Strength modifier.  Just like all other finesse weapons. So this is working as intended.

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

Hear hear, Pan.

Anyway...

What's all this about the magical world of Layonara somehow imbuing every little mundane thing with magic effects? A whip wouldn't get some sort of magical bonus, just because it's made in a world where magic exists. A wheelbarrow doesn't have jets on it, just because we have jets in our world... If you wanted to put jets on one, sure, but it's not an automatic thing.

A whip wouldn't affect morale; it doesn't inspire terror (finally decoded that one) in a hardened warrior... If I'm running at you with a sword, and a whip cracks next to my eye, I'm just going to squeeze my eye shut and keep running, to hopefully hack you to pieces before you come up with some better idea of stopping me. And that's me. Just a sixteen year old kid with only some very minor tactical training. Try doing that to a bugbear warrior, who's been training his whole life to fight! If you want to add a magical effect, sure, but not just automatically.

I agree on the Expertise bit, though I don't quite follow the logic of having Expertise in particular as part of that Feat tree. It may be part of the Trip and Disarm trees; I've not used those feats, so I've never really taken the time to think about it. Could be. *Shrug.*

Anyway, my basic point is this: The only additions to the whip in Layo that I feel really should be made are these:
- Reach Weapon
- Provokes AoOs unless you've got PBS
- Gives Trip if the regular prerequisites of the feat are made; same with Disarm. (Perhaps represent this with Knockdown; not sure how NWN handles that sort of action.)
- Increase the damage a bit to represent the training a person has to have in order to use a whip effectively (especially seeing as it burns a feat in Layo).

[NEXUS7]

Ne'er

I dont think thats right, in anchanit Japan they used to kill with
Rise flayls, Nunchucks, and even bukets. History s full of wepons used are from every day tools
that then develup a fighting style so that thay can be used on an armred warrior.
I whip is a pesents wepon.

I know spelling all gone to pot )

[NEXUS7]

did the whips get update with the grate new update
)

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

Nunchuku originally WERE flails for the grain.

But there's no Bucket Fighting, seriously now. Unless you're Jackie Chan, anyway.