Put the Soul Mother to Rest? Maybe? Perhaps?

[Dorganath]

The IC mechanism of Soul Strand loss is due to the strain of death (i.e. one of the strands that tethers a soul to a body snaps as the soul attempts to leave the body on death), not the strain of returning to life.   That's presented as an FYI.

The only comment on loss of play time I have is that it really hurts people who don't have a lot of time to play, don't have time or desire to invest time into backup characters, etc.  Remember, people play to have fun, which is part of the basis for this discussion in the first place...it's not fun to lose one's character...it's not fun to not be able to play for a day, etc.

[jrizz]

The IC mechanism of Soul Strand loss is due to the strain of death (i.e. one of the strands that tethers a soul to a body snaps as the soul attempts to leave the body on death), not the strain of returning to life.   That's presented as an FYI.

The only comment on loss of play time I have is that it really hurts people who don't have a lot of time to play, don't have time or desire to invest time into backup characters, etc.  Remember, people play to have fun, which is part of the basis for this discussion in the first place...it's not fun to lose one's character...it's not fun to not be able to play for a day, etc.

OK I see your point on the loss due to death but it could also be explained that you open yourself up to a loss due to being pulled back from death, that somewhere in the twilight between life and death the Souls Mother lurks waiting for a weak moment to reach in a take her tax. But lets put that aside as well as the loss of play time (but that is what multi characters are for).

How about my first suggestion? That one does not change the way the Soul Mother works or the code for the script in any way. What it does is show that a PC's soul get stronger has she grows in power not weaker. I have always had an issue with PCs growing in power all the while having parts of their soul ripped away, it really makes little sense, it should be the other way around. I am sure there could be some obscure way to make it sound sensible, like the SM reaps the SS but that the essence of the person stays whole inside what strands are left. That could be a way to explain it away. But since we have this point where PCs get a boost of SS (21st level SMD) then we are already trying to have a system where as the PC grows her soul get stronger. I think it can still work in that way but even better with my method. It also does away with the hopelessness that players get when their PC hits 9 or 14 DTs. It does not make sense that a PC at the apex of her power suddenly stops adventuring (what this means most of the time is that they vanish from play). With my proposal they will keep playing maybe moving into less risky play styles, until feeling more "whole", and this means we will not lose them from the world and the richness that they bring.

[LynnJuniper]

I still agree with Jrizz. Though Dorg, It ultimately comes down to how much leeway you're (as the team, Leanthar, etc) are willing to make lore wise, or how much you're willing to change something in general to make something better mechanic wise, or something that the players and later, consumers would like to compromise with you with in edging the end of NWN layonara. If the answer to that is none, then this argument is null from the get go

[Dorganath]

I'm only currently commenting on thing that have significant barriers to their implementation. I did not say anything about your first idea for that reason.  That should not be seen as an endorsement either.

As for how one might interpret death, well...people are free to interpret death as they see fit, but when we get right down to the IC mechanics of death, that's not how it works.  I think it's a bit of a misconception personally that the Soul Mother collects Soul Strands...she doesn't.  She collects souls.  Strands are simply the thing that keeps one's soul tethered to one's body, and they can only take so much strain.   Think of them as little rubber bands.

[Dorganath]

I still agree with Jrizz. Though Dorg, It ultimately comes down to how much leeway you're (as the team, Leanthar, etc) are willing to make lore wise, or how much you're willing to change something in general to make something better mechanic wise, or something that the players and later, consumers would like to compromise with you with in edging the end of NWN layonara. If the answer to that is none, then this argument is null from the get go

The answer is not "none".  If it were, I'd have not solicited comments.

That said, there are certain lore factors that are (pardon the expression) pretty much carved in bindstone.  In this case, what happens when a person dies has been defined in an IC sense, is part of world lore and should be clarified at least somewhat when we release the handbook update, which Ed is working furiously on doing.

There was a system we were going to put in place to help allay fears and concerns about a growing number of lost strands, but time and priorities have made that unlikely in NWN.  I say this to let you know we're not blind to the concerns, and one way or the other, this will most likely make it into Layonara. I just don't know when.

Anyway, carry on!

[jrizz]

I'm only currently commenting on thing that have significant barriers to their implementation. I did not say anything about your first idea for that reason.  That should not be seen as an endorsement either.

As for how one might interpret death, well...people are free to interpret death as they see fit, but when we get right down to the IC mechanics of death, that's not how it works.  I think it's a bit of a misconception personally that the Soul Mother collects Soul Strands...she doesn't.  She collects souls.  Strands are simply the thing that keeps one's soul tethered to one's body, and they can only take so much strain.   Think of them as little rubber bands.

So if you have a deity then the soul mother does not get you in the end. She may loosen it up but your deity takes you in the end. So she is really not getting a lot of souls anyway LOL

[Dorganath]

Not quite.  If a deity claims you, then your soul goes to that realm.  If not...well...

At any rate, there are a whole lot of people in a polytheistic belief system who do not worship only one deity.  Remember that the adventuring population is only like...1% of the entire world, at best.  Also remember that there are other worlds in the universe, planar creatures, etc.  Many, many, many things have souls.

If she only had the adventuring population to gain souls from, she'd probably have to get some kind of other job on the side.

[jrizz]

Too funny

[Chongo]

Your first idea is pretty neat sounding jrizz.  I'm thinking that it won't be a viable solution given the time constraints, but who knows.  It lets people continue in looking forward instead of resigning to stagnation as a character.
 
 And fair point Gulnyr, as to the solution for NWN.. I haven't really offerred much at all.  So, ceasing in the foward complaints, which I think we've all gotten a few cents in on, I'd say the easiest solution for the time being, with the angst filled coupling of server timeline + 'I'm about to perm', is pretty simple.  GM quests to fill the gap on what was initially proposed by Leanthar for V3.  Soul Mother specific series.  It's only one GM asset, and it can fill the gap in the coming months.  No major scripts, no major lore changes.  Run a quest(s), make success a requirement, make it a big deal, make folks step it up and brave the danger involved in helping to save their friends from the soul mother's grasp.  It's exciting, it's a big deal, it serves to offer the dangerous chance of having us all around until Layo converts, and kills a few birds with one stone that isn't already in use by the 'Layonara Future' team.

[twidget658]

Though I like jrizz's ideas, with a few modifications, I thought of another that may be able to be used in conjunction with or even as standalone. Ever wonder what you could do with all those temple receipt? It is very spiritually uplifting to donate to your temple and support your deity. Once you have the receipts for a certain amount of donations, your spirit makes testimony for itself and grows stronger.
 
 For the people that do not follow a deity can usually find some amount of joy in donating to other causes, maybe a deity that someone they like follows or a deity that they do not necessarily worship, but whose domains they favor.
 
 Charities would also be a way to earn a certain amount of credit.
 
 Am I saying that you can 'buy' back a SS? Not exactly. What I am saying is that there are events or circumstances that make the spirit heal or grow stronger in faith. This will also influence people that follow a deity t support their deity more.

[LynnJuniper]

I like that twidget the only problem is it assumes every character has some sort of good nature and gets a 'warm fuzzy feeling' inside for doing something nice. What for those who do not? Maybe for them bathing in the blood of virgins would repair their soul. Kidding!

[Falonthas]

i once heard an ooc talk about what a druid should do when they get their 9th strand ripped,do they sit in the grove and prune flowers all day

no they do exactly what they have been since they lost their first strand
they follow their tenets and their oath and be seen as guardians of the oak

if they lose the last link to their soul,so be it
then they passed doing exactly as they did when they lived
serving the balance in their way
now if druids are the only ones who dont sit on their butts then perhaps its to say people are afraid to let their char they love so dearly evolve to his or her next stage

clerics know they are going to serve their god goddess,so why would they sit and hide
ok they like to be living,but again and this has been brought up before
are they living growing roots on the bench

we play adventurers
guess what
its not a bankers job
we fight
we bleed and yes sometimes we die
and sometimes we perm

but do we go out being who we are or do we turn into little ancient husks for pigeons and gulls to poop on

[Masterjack]

I have a suggestion. Soul Strand loss is a percent chance based on your current level when you die. In theory once you have a 100 deaths you should be perm'd. I know people (including myself) have lost strands due to game mechanics. Since we do not adventure with GMs or WLs much, we are not able to get a reimbersment of strands. So I present this solution. If a character perms and has not had 100 deaths, then the character's god is able to return one strand. This would be a one time thing. I do believe that deaths are tracked in lore so it will be an easy thing to verify.

I was thinking that the character would appear in their gods temple. That will help RP the time lag it takes to get a strand returned.

Let me know what you think