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Author Topic: Earning A Level Per Month  (Read 3044 times)

Pen N Popper

Re: Earning A Level Per Month
« Reply #40 on: March 26, 2012, 05:54:35 pm »
As an added note, I'll use myself as an example:

Given that I could only pick one PC to apply the level-per-month to, which would I chose?

On the one hand, Honeybee deserves levels! She is an honestly played pacifist cleric, devoted to harvest and food. She (and her player) would prefer if she never left Center but was there 24/7 to interact and tease whispered tales out of passerby. She doesn't really "need" levels but it begins to feel a bit stagnant if your role is just PC town crier. A level-per-month would feel very satisfying. Maybe she'd be able to collect bodak teeth herself someday! Or cherries! Is it really necessary to grind her for OOC XP?

Now there's Dubbel, the half-giant thunder machine! He's the one that needs levels! It's a low player count server and being able to solo and explore would be fun! Would be great to "tank" for groups too. Perhaps I get him online for a few adventures per week all the while knowing that whether he runs point down Haven or plays mop-up in the Rift, he's going to get stronger. Would certainly free me up to RP with him more, rather than just chose max-XP adventures.

Maybe they both deserve a level-per-month? Maybe it's the player that deserves it, not the PC.

I don't know but there must be a way to make the five hour per week players feel successful too. Remember, even after gaining 30th level on their three year anniversary, they still are only 30th level for five hours a week. You're saying that will cramp your style? Bah!
 

miltonyorkcastle

Re: Earning A Level Per Month
« Reply #41 on: March 26, 2012, 06:05:10 pm »
I like your points; they have validity. And, in fact, the long delayed MMO has this in mind, as we have long thought of providing means of advancement for skills outside of in-game time. As far as something like this being implemented in the NWN incarnation of Layo, I doubt it. That said, I'd love it if we had a quest series for every day of the week, and every player could at least play in one series (so a quest a week), and attendance of between 4-8 quests would result in a level (so, between 16 and 32 hours of quest time). To me, that would be ideal.
 

Aphel

Re: Earning A Level Per Month
« Reply #42 on: March 26, 2012, 06:54:59 pm »
I find the idea interesting. You will, however, not be able to support this for GMT players. It's hard enough to find people for CDQs or events that you can actually participate (And to all GMs out there who make it happen: THANK YOU SO MUCH!). I'd like to apply myself, that would only be the most responsible thing to do, but I don't think I fit the skills needed.
We need players. As simple as that.
 

Pen N Popper

Re: Earning A Level Per Month
« Reply #43 on: March 26, 2012, 07:22:40 pm »
It has nothing to do with timezones or GMs. Just being online and doing stuff (whatever stuff) is great! You deserve reward for playing and being there for others.

Edit: Sorry, didn't realize you were replying to previous post and not the thread. I agree, and always have though, that progression through GM quests is not something everyone is able to enjoy.
 

Aphel

Re: Earning A Level Per Month
« Reply #44 on: March 27, 2012, 08:51:13 am »
Reputation? Infamy? Involvement (which might or might not require a GM)? Trues? Experience? What kind of reward are you speaking of?
Timezones matter. They do. Else I could play with a lot more players and GMs. And not all stuff is great to do. Sometimes it's just crafting/collecting to get that fancy new item you always wanted for your character. It's more interesting to write a CDT about it then actually doing it.
 

Dremora

Re: Earning A Level Per Month
« Reply #45 on: March 27, 2012, 10:38:29 am »
To try and bring this away from the timezone stuff (which seems like abit of a drift even if I support Aphel in this): There is a system that can be used as a template to create something similar that basically gets assigned to characters or logins. It gives you a set amount of xp every set period of time (controlled by GMs) for interacting with the environment. Standing about doing nothing or not typing anything results in no delivery. But it also means combat and the occasional line every set period of time grants the xp.

Overall, if implemented, people who have nothing to do for whatever reason or have missed quests, play alone alot, don't have the time will be able to login and gain xp. Its automated once a GM assigns it and can always be removed if a person's RP quality is deemed to have dropped/disappeared (i.e they bash too much).

Cons obviously are similar to the WL xp wand, people may get annoyed if they feel they're striving for it and not recieving it. Sorted out by removing a tiered system that basically becomes a caste system seen on Arelith; just have one or two levels of xp awarded.
People who grind alot WILL level faster and thus the server as a whole will level faster (Dorg didnt like this). It can be remedied if GMs judge on a case by case basis who RPs enough to earn the reward (may lead to issue listed above) and who spends way too much time grinding instead.

Its not really all that different to Gms coming online and rewarding people for RPing with XP. They could be sitting in a town, discussing something interesting and their XP increases and brings them closer to levelling up mechanically. One can argue that it doesn't make a fighter and better fighter by having a chat but if it takes a fighter killing a couple hundred creatures just to get a +1 ab, I think you can call the system flawed anyway. If I went out and killed that many things, I guarentee you I'd know how to handle a sword and shield alot better than before I killed them. So this system just makes the GM logging in more mechanical, and you get xp to help you get closer to your level without having to perform genocide to as high a degree as most of us technically do.

All in all though.. if GMs are active and log in and award you XP for RP. I'd say the system isn't broke so do not fix it.. and I don't really think the above is an improvement but if the team prefer it, its there. It only really solves the no GM, no quest, too to no other player's issue by making you gain xp even without having someone else around. Since crafting is tedious for some, and logging off becomes all the more attractive at the time which isnt really healthy for a server thats short on people.

Note though that people with the most time available to play will also benefit the most if they spend it on the server doing anything to trigger the xp grant.
 

Pen N Popper

Re: Earning A Level Per Month
« Reply #46 on: March 27, 2012, 11:37:46 am »
I guess my thinking is this:

If you play on the server for a consistently reasonable amount of time per month, you will earn one level for one PC.

In general I'd say make "consistently reasonable amount of time" be the most non-judgmental way possible. For example, if you play for four hours one week in a group of six bashing monsters, while the next week you find another person at Center's campfire, while the following weekend you find yourself alone on the server and go pick cotton, you have played enough to be considered a valued member of the Layonara server community and in recognition here is a level to be applied to one of your PCs.

You can think of all sorts of reasons to justify the level OOCly: While I'm not online, my PC is bashing spiders!

Again, I guess I'm wondering if it's so terrible that a player with limited time (or less desire to bash) be allowed to progress their PC in the world.

Just think about it: What upsets you about a PC gaining a level for participating in the game in their own style? Is it because you are "winning" and would feel cheated if someone else took a short cut? Is it that you've invested more than they have? What is it?

How it would work: On the first day of the calendar month, you bring one of your PCs (any of them) to a banker and choose, "Level me because I'm awesome!" A tick gets put by your player name in the database and that's it until all the tick marks are wiped on the last day of the month in preparation for the first.

We're so few players that it probably doesn't need to be any more complicated than that. Don't require journals, don't count hours ingame, etc. Add the stated rule (perhaps in the ingame dialogue) that if you are just logging in on the first of the month to level a PC and not playing it is a banable offense. Lots of rules aren't backed by mechanics but by OOC stated rules.

Try it for a few months, see if we get some more players online. Perhaps the first week of the month becomes a heady leveling fest full of newly more powerful PCs rampaging across the server in joyous RP.
 

Dorganath

Re: Earning A Level Per Month
« Reply #47 on: March 27, 2012, 12:17:37 pm »
@PenNPopper, your idea fails to take into account a couple of pretty important things.

1) It assumes everyone plays under the same player account.  They don't. Your suggestion favors players who play under multiple accounts to a large degree.  This is patently unfair from the start and it's easily exploitable.

2) The GM oversight required for this, such as your bannable offense of logging in once just to level a character and what I mentioned above, would be significant if really monitored as it should be. I can tell you it would not be.  Database access is restricted, and I've got far more I need to be doing than scouring the database looking for exploiters or writing some analytical code to find them in a more automated way.

@Dremora: I have something like this already, coded and mostly tested. It's missing administration tools...meaning a way for GMs to activate it.  It's self-limiting (expires after a set period of time), it's sensitive to things like a character being idle (i.e. going afk for hours) and so on to keep it reasonable and appropriate.

Why isn't it in place? Well, I've not fully decided if it's the right thing or not for one.  And again, it's just not falling into my priorities at the moment.

Beyond these two replies, I'm not getting into a discussion on the merits or pitfalls of the general idea any further than I already have.
 

Pen N Popper

Re: Earning A Level Per Month
« Reply #48 on: March 27, 2012, 12:28:43 pm »
I'll take this as a firm, "No, level-per-month is not going to happen." Got it!
 

mixafix

Re: Earning A Level Per Month
« Reply #49 on: March 27, 2012, 01:51:09 pm »
Popper
 I think your voluntary approach of a group levelling at the same pace would be much easier to progress, and visits some of the same ground perhaps in a manner much more likely to be viable and if required changeable. IE still a good area to experiment without forcing change on the server and tying up valuable team time.
 
 Your other thread where I added a point about granting some free levels granted to new start players under some agreable scheme or other to allow them the chance to play with the big PCs - would be a much simpler to implement approach.
 
 Here there is some related precedent whereby players have previously been granted up to 3 million XPs for not playing a series - single levels each I grant you, but there is some area of common ground, and the xp hit I think was supported by player base and team alike on that occassion. However there may be common ground under a set of circumstances found to be comfortable that allow more levels to be granted - again perhaps in isolation for one specific series as an experiment etc.
 

Dremora

Re: Earning A Level Per Month
« Reply #50 on: March 27, 2012, 02:34:19 pm »
Quote from: Dorganath
Beyond these two replies, I'm not getting into a discussion on the merits or pitfalls of the general idea any further than I already have.


Didn't ask you to. It was a suggestion that didn't require a reply, I simply listed the pro's and cons of a system I've seen in action before as a sort of 'expect this' guide incase anyone on the team liked the idea of that sorta system or had been coming up with something along those lines.
 

Dorganath

Re: Earning A Level Per Month
« Reply #51 on: March 27, 2012, 02:58:26 pm »
Quote from: Dremora
Didn't ask you to. It was a suggestion that didn't require a reply, I simply listed the pro's and cons of a system I've seen in action before as a sort of 'expect this' guide incase anyone on the team liked the idea of that sorta system or had been coming up with something along those lines.

You misunderstand.

That comment was directed at the thread in general, not to your specific suggestion.

As I said, I have a system very similar to what you suggested.  It's unfortunate that your response avoided this point and instead focused in on a general statement of my desire to not get involved further in a debate about free XP.
 

Dremora

Re: Earning A Level Per Month
« Reply #52 on: March 27, 2012, 06:10:40 pm »
Sorry, thought it was since it was under the "@dremora" section.
I did notice what you said, hence I added the part about incase someone came up with idea already or something similar (referring to you).
If you considered my post to be defensive or seemingly 'off' in terms of my mood behind it, I apologise. I had somewhere to be so I was curt in my explanation that it was just a general suggestion. :(
 

Pen N Popper

Re: Earning A Level Per Month
« Reply #53 on: March 27, 2012, 08:15:37 pm »
It was a good suggestion, Dremora. I'm sure any ruffled feathers can be blamed on the original poster! ;)
 

Dremora

Re: Earning A Level Per Month
« Reply #54 on: March 28, 2012, 05:53:51 am »
Not in this case Pen. Its fine anyway, just a bit of miscommunication, relax. :)
 

mixafix

Re: Earning A Level Per Month
« Reply #55 on: March 28, 2012, 09:24:33 am »
Food for thought.....a follow on to some previously aired ideas here and elsewhere.
 
 There have been 2 series started at level one where pcs are introduced on a series of quests. One of these did not finish properly. The other, designed to introduce some lore to the game was set in the past and where all the pcs were constrained to being Gnomes and is still ongoing but has been a very lengthy production, and the lore and the characters are not yet in game. There are many reasons for these outcomes and I mention them because thats the way they are and no slight intended anywhere.
 
 That withstanding I think both games have offered a common story and something all those PCs could hang their hat on RP wise as they go forward from the point of finishing. Both adventures have been tight and more fun for the close grouping of levels and the themed stories.
 
 Okay adding that to the mix in the above posts.
 
 Start a themed quest (needs to well thought out time zones) introducing/embellishing lore.
 
 The PCs all start at an enhanced level - say somewhere agreed between 15-20 (all would be the same)
 
 
 The PCs are all constrained by a common theme, and may be fed a history by the GM if both agree to it.
 
 EG All the PC must play survivors of the recent conflict at Hilm Castle - all were present at the siege, whatever their role or side. (this could be more complex and detailed as the gm/loremaster deems fit)
 
 EG fed history. GM to player A - I know you said you were a kitchen porter drafted into holding the south tower, and learned your skills during that battle but you also previously joined the secret guild of master Kitchen Porters who are seeking the long lost meat cleaver of Hilm and I need you recall that going forward..is that agreable ?...(both sign up to whatever)
 
 Some provision is made for late joining or a future production dependent on success -to best serve fairness and demand.
 
 The series runs (ideally given the past events with these efforts this needs to be run over a set time - I suggest no more than 3 months, with as many sessions as the GM/s can happily do.)
 
 At the end of the series the pcs are in game and free to play as normal (provided they participated in sufficient games)
 
 This provides an intense background both written pre game and during series to make up for the lack of the usual route. I would argue these intro games provide a pretty solid background and I think that applies regardless of entry level.
 
 It brings pcs in at a higher level for those that miss that/desire that. This should provide a limited player base more opportunity to mix and visit other areas. This may aid retention/fun/mystery/something new.
 
 It may lead to a follow on series if the Players find they like the idea of growing with level compatability and GMs support it. or indeed players might voluntarily continue as a group with whatever agreement suits them.
 

osxmallard

Re: Earning A Level Per Month
« Reply #56 on: March 28, 2012, 11:38:22 am »
I like your idea mix.  I would be happy to run something like this starting in the summer since I am currently taking a college course, an HR certification prep course, and moving my family from Hawaii to Washington, DC... so a little tied up right now.  I will have time in July though.  =)
 

Xaltotun

Re: Earning A Level Per Month
« Reply #57 on: March 28, 2012, 04:31:03 pm »
OSX - if you can run it in GMT time or GMT +1 then count me in :)

One thing would be a nice addition though - to take part in this scheme, could the participants be allowed to have an additional character for this so it doesn't count towards the max number allowed at the moment. I am at my max and would not like to delete a character to take part in this experiment, much as it sounds like a great idea.
 

Alatriel

Re: Earning A Level Per Month
« Reply #58 on: March 28, 2012, 04:33:34 pm »
As I mentioned in the GMT Players thread... I'm also working on a few ideas that I hope to run during GMT.  This summer will be easier for me because my kids will be out of school and we won't be on a schedule, so if you can bear with me, I am working on it as much as my rl will allow me.  It won't be exactly what Mixafix described below, and no, to my knowledge, at this time we will not be allowing people to have over the allowances on characters for a quest series.  The ideas I have in mind, so far, though, do not require you to submit a new character unless you want to.

Thanks for your patience.
 

silverblades

Re: Earning A Level Per Month
« Reply #59 on: March 29, 2012, 04:18:12 am »
@ Dorg
Free XP on this server very unlikely..least not my direction
There can be only One.
 

 

anything