Detect Alignment

[Talan Va'lash]

Perhaps this spell could be made so that upon a successful casting the result appeared in the chat or server mssg window.

Would be usefull since many class abilities, spell effects, and item properties are alignment dependant.

I thought of this as I was thinking of all the detect spells that are non-existant in NWN.  This is the only one I could think of being usefull and practical/possible to script.

[Frendh]

Wasn't there a similar spell in the BG series?
Or ability

[Dorganath]

Yeah, I think evil glowed red or something.

[General_Ski]

Now that would be quiet ooc I believe... I mean theoretically you would get a sense of a person by the way they are dressed, the way they act, the way they smell, the way they interact. There boundaries between alignments can be rather fuzzy. How can a spell tell a lawful character out of a chaotic one... Good and evil, may be... But rp would probably be clouded by your prejudices. I think detect alignment would detract from rp aspect, and would probably make those not too experienced with rp concepts whole thing act out of character. These are just my two cents.

[Eight-Bit]

I think it would detract from the roleplaying aspect of character interaction. Why bother getting to know someone or even starting a conversation when you can get their alignment printed out for you in clear, yellow server text. It's a good and valid idea, just one that is better off in a single player game, rather than one with upwards of fourty different players on at once.

[FlameStrike]

Would help those dumb paladins in their job, at least that's for sure.

[Variable]

This is a PnP spell for clerics, it is like protection against alignment and can be used to detect good, evil, law, or chaos.

this is the spell description (at least as it is in the 3.5 player's book)

Detect Evil (i'm using detect evil as an example)
Divination
Level: Clr 1
Components: V,S,DF
Range: 60 ft.
Area: Cone-shaped emanation
Duration: Concentration, up to 10 min./level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

You can sense the presence of Evil. The amount of information revealed depends on how long you study a particular area or subject.

1st Round: Presence or absence of Evil.
2nd Round: Number of Evil auras (creatures, objects or spells) in the area and the power of the most potent Evil aura present. If you are Good aligned, and the strongest Evil aura's power is overwhelming (see below), and the HD or level of the aura's source is at least twice your character level, you are stunned for 1 round and the spell ends.
3rd Round: The power and location of each aura. If an aura is outside your line of sight, then you discern its direction but not its exact location.
Aura Power: An Evil aura's power depends on the type of Evil creature or object that you're detecting and its HD, caster level, or (in the case of a cleric) class level; see accompanying table. If an aura falls into more than one strength category, the spell indicates the stronger of the two.

Each round you can detect Evil in a new area. The spell can penetrate barriers, but 1 foot of stone, 1 inch of common metal, a thin sheet of lead, or 3 feet or wood or dirt blocks.

I think this would be great for clerics, it would also allow better use of protection against Evil/Good

[Variable]

I also do not think that this would detract from RP in anyway and I think if anything it would be a great spell for RPing with.



edit: sorry for the double post

[Talan Va'lash]

It doesnt even neccisarily have to work on PCs, thats not why I suggested it.

Only spellcasters would be able to cast it.

If a spell that can tell someones alignment is too OOC, then a weapon that does damage vs a certain alignment is too ooc, or a paladins smite evil ability is OOC.

[General_Ski]

Talan Va'lash - 7/22/2005  6:01 PM

It doesnt even neccisarily have to work on PCs, thats not why I suggested it.

Only spellcasters would be able to cast it.

If a spell that can tell someones alignment is too OOC, then a weapon that does damage vs a certain alignment is too ooc, or a paladins smite evil ability is OOC.

Well actually, effect of the weapon is permanent. I.E. you use a weapon period and if it hits it does damage, it just does more damage against alignments because it has beeen "blessed/spelled to do so". As such I do not beleive that it affects RP. Being able to tell someone is good or evil, lawful or unlawful may give you hints about their integrity and other stuff. And as such I believe it detracts from the rp aspect.
Just my dime:).

[Rayenoir]

With a "vs. alignment" weapon, you don't even necessarily know in-character that you're doing more damage because of it.  After all, you might just be swinging your weapon very well that day, or in that particular battle.  Also, "Smite Evil" can fail on 2/3rds of the available alignments, so there's quite a margin for error there as well.

[Talan Va'lash]

you guys kinda missed the point of my arguments.

"I.E. you use a weapon period and if it hits it does damage, it just does more damage against alignments because it has beeen "blessed/spelled to do so"."

If there are spells that can discern between alignments to hurt specific ones, then spells that merely discern alignments are not far fetched.

"Also, "Smite Evil" can fail on 2/3rds of the available alignments, so there's quite a margin for error there as well."

Yes... it only works against evil creatures

"With a "vs. alignment" weapon, you don't even necessarily know in-character that you're doing more damage because of it. "

Identify spells inform the caster of the effects of enchantments on items.  Some are more powerfull than others, but since the only identify type spell we have is identify, it kinda has to cover all the bases.


In a fantasy setting with magic, we have to work within the context that there is magic.  Of course you couldn't tell someones alignment in real life.  If we were RPing a realistic modern day setting then anything that detected someone's alignment would be OOC, but we are in the dungeons and dragons setting with wizards and clerics who use magic.

The reason a lot of the detect spells (detect thoughts, detect magic, detect alignment, detect poison etc.) arent in NWN is that they're mostly useless in a single player PGing type of game, which is what much of NWN was designed around.

However here, in a RP context the would be useful and fun.

When working in a setting with magic, you have to think in that setting.

An example paraphrased from one of the D&D books, a baazar in a large city might have invisible wizards patrol the marketplace with detect thoughts spells active to spot potential theives before they acctually stold anything.  Any potential theif would have to develop methods different than he would need in a non-magic world.

The counterpart to detect alignment is... i forget what its called, but its basically "fake alignment."

What would be cool if the detect spells got put in is if we had spells and items that would conceal ones alignment, giving a false answer when someone detected their alignment.

The opposed rolls for getting a correct answer would work like spell resistance.  The DC of getting the true alignment of one whos alignment is concealed is 12+caster level.  The detector rolls 1d20+caster level against the DC of the concealers spell.

Then you could have items with "fake Lawfull Good: 18" anyone detecting someone wearing that item would have to get an 18 on a caster level check to see their real alignment, otherwise they appear LG.

It could be a cool new aspect to disguises.

-TV

[General_Ski]

Uh that would kinda call for additional skills and new game engine..

[Talan Va'lash]

not true on both counts, especially the second.

The only tricky thing is making the property to put on items, but it would still be cool even without the items.

The only thing that would be needed is two new spells, though I'm sure I have no idea how to script it so that they interact in the above stated manner.

There are no skills invoved at all.

The checks I described above are the same checks that are made everytime a spell is cast on a creature with spell resistance, and the conceal alignment value (12+casterlevel) is the same computation used when a cleric or druid casts spell resistance.

-TV

Edit: My previous statement about the "only tricky thing" is a bit untrue, by it I meant, the only thing that might not be possible. (also edited for typos)

[Dorganath]

I don't think it would be OOC, because it's been a staple of PnP D&D for 25+ years.

And it's no more OOC than the "Bless Test" many cleric types use in-game now (whether intentionally or as a matter of preparing one's party) to see who's diety is friendly to their own and whose is not.

[Talan Va'lash]

hehe yeah, if you create an IC way to determine something, then knowing it is no longer OOC.

[Etinfall]

I am confused...again. Why would one need to know my alignment? other than me rp ing it?