Ghostly Glow of the Living

[Gulnyr]

Is there any chance of removing the glow effect from recently respawned/raised/resurrected characters for the next update?

[ShiffDrgnhrt]

Or maybe add some other effect?  the "Ghost" look doesn't really gel with Lore, since we don't come back as disembodied spirits...

[Hellblazer]

I think it shouldn't be taken as if you were a ghost, but more as if you looked weaker, sick. With all the stats being down, and how straining a death would be. That is why I think there is that effect. But it does tend to be confusing, even for some old timers here who still rp as if you were see through.

[Acacea]

It's not so much about intention as it is result.

[darkstorme]

Well, industrious people out there with time on your hands - run through the visual effects available (in the Toolset, maybe) and suggest alternatives!

[Gulnyr]

In my opinion, there doesn't need to be any visual effect.  I don't need a constantly visible reminder that my character has recently returned from the dead; the reflection count server messages and reduced stat display on the character sheet are plenty.  

From the other side, there's no particular reason my character, without being present to actually see someone die and be raised or pop up at a bindstone, should be able to tell anyone has returned from the dead, and vice versa.  If I want anyone to know there is a problem, I can emote and RP it just like if I wanted to let anyone know my character is particularly happy or sad or sick or tired or whatever.  Jennara got a nasty Constitution zap not long ago, far worse than any reduction from respawning, and she didn't glow blue, y'know?  I had to emote it and try to RP accordingly.  Anyway, even without any other reasons, I think letting the player have the option to make it a topic for RP rather than being practically forced into it is enough reason to remove visual clues.

[EdTheKet]

I think it shouldn't be taken as if you were a ghost, but more as if you looked weaker, sick. With all the stats being down, and how straining a death would be. That is why I think there is that effect.

Entirely correct, it is a visual aid to make everyone aware that your character looks bad, tired, pale and the like.

It is a tool to enhance RP, so that people can immediately see you look bad. Just like when you meet somebody who has the flu, you can almost immediately tell that person is not feeling well.

It shouldn't be removed in my opinion, because then it will only be clear to the people you tell that you recently died and not to everyone who sees your character. In addition, if it is removed and a player doesn't want to talk about it, then none of the other players will have any idea even though your character does actually look the worse for wear.


If the problem is that people think you're a ghost, then it shouldn't be too hard to remedy by a clarifying post, in my opinion. Or the person thinking that somebody is a ghost can easily be corrected by the recently-died-player "Hey dude, actually I'm not a ghost, it's just a visual effect to show my char looks bad because of a recent death".

[Nehetsrev]

Okay... but what about characters that keep themselves more or less completely covered up?  How would others be able to tell just by looking at the exterior of their outfits that they're not doing great due to a recent death?

[s0ulz]

Okay... but what about characters that keep themselves more or less completely covered up?  How would others be able to tell just by looking at the exterior of their outfits that they're not doing great due to a recent death?

You can always come up with exceptional cases no matter how this issue is resolved. The fact of the matter is that, if a player is familiar with the lore and OOC systems of Layonara, they'll know what the glow means.

It's near impossible to demand from a rather stagnated engine to perfectly render different cases of character states, heck, we don't even have open-faced helmets, just replacing headboxes.

There will always be some amount of RP effort needed to explain statuses and GFX in-game, so I guess those covered up will just need to explain or correct the people that make assumptions. Common sense applies nicely here.

[ShiffDrgnhrt]

"Hello completely covered up (insert Dark Elf's name here).  You look like something really bad happen to you recently...  Well something bad is going to happen again...."  *kills (insert Dark Elf's name here)*

[Dorganath]

Let me ask this...

Is it the VFX that's really the problem? Or is it the hours spent reflecting after respawning through the bindstones, during which one must endure this ghostly white glow?

I guess what I'm looking for is what is the bigger complaint:  Is it the glow itself or is it the length of time that you have to endure looking at the glow?  I ask it this way because sometimes it's not the "thing" but the length of time the "thing" sticks around.

Like...when you don't mind if your mother comes to visit, but man...if she stays more than a few days...

[ShiffDrgnhrt]

*avoids the question*  Just curious, but is there a way to make it less transparent, and maybe a slightly more subtle color?  I just never really liked the white and the see-through...

[Hellblazer]

I'm going to go on a limb here and add this.

Wither or not you know someone or not, if that person seems to drag him/herself across a room with great effort (visually seen and heard, with slowness, loud breathing and maybe even erratic breathing. Slight moaning. Grunting with efforts. Dizziness, lack of focus, speech impairment for those that the int goes under 10) That when you speak to her, you can hear the strain in that person voice. Well you would know something is not right. Would you know right off the bat that this person died? -maybe- not, but that is when RP comes into play and you engage in conversation with the person to see what happened. If you know the person well though, it might be easier to spot on right from the bat what was the problem. As to you have seen that person with the same symptoms before.

Now I am going to hear the, oh but he was all covered.. did you roll a perform to try and pass the voice as being her normal self?, rolled a bluff? etc?.. it's easy to want to get rid of a vfx, while there could be a myriad of other things that could be done before hand to enhance the RP at the player base level.

[miltonyorkcastle]

I know all this has been discussed before, but as I've searched the threads, it seems much of the pertinent info is spread out... granted, I gave up the search after about ten minutes... anywho... I wanted to find the thread in which a good number of players said they'd be more likely to stick around and play their characters while recovering from death if the "ghostly" effect were removed. That is enough reason for me suggest the vfx be removed.

If you want to "see" the effects on a person without them emoting them to you, "examine" them. You can see all the negative death effects in the form of red-colored attribute loss.

EDIT: Found them. All are polls started by Dorg.

http://forums.layonara.com/general-discussion/186632-biggest-problem-reflections.html

http://forums.layonara.com/general-discussion/186482-death-reflecting.html

http://forums.layonara.com/general-discussion/186542-game-death-reflections-poll.html

[Dorganath]

If you want to "see" the effects on a person without them emoting them to you, "examine" them. You can see all the negative death effects in the form of red-colored attribute loss.

Just a point to note that subrace penalties show up as red attribute losses too.  Granted, there's more from death, but simply because someone has penalties active doesn't mean they've recently died.

[Serissa]

Less time spent recovering would certainly be welcome.

[miltonyorkcastle]

simply because someone has penalties active doesn't mean they've recently died.

Nor should one assume from an IC perspective that someone walking up with a ghostly vfx is anything more than hurt or sick- the fact that they might have just died should be unknown until the character spills the beans, unless there is some specific and uniquely identifiable trait across race and person that indicates someone is recovering from a recent death.

In other words, should a person be able to immediately recognize that someone is recovering from death, or simply that said someone looks pretty bad, and that poor health might be attributed to recent death, but might also be attributed to something else.

If there is some specific trait that everyone has while recovering from death,  then we ought to spell out exactly what that is. Simply looking to be in poor health could indicate a hundred other things as well as recent death.

[Dorganath]

In other words, should a person be able to immediately recognize that someone is recovering from death, or simply that said someone looks pretty bad, and that poor health might be attributed to recent death, but might als be attributed to something else.

Well again, it's been suggested that death is traumatic on one's physical body regardless of how they returned to life.  Clearly our mechanics suggest also that Resurrection is the most restorative after death, followed by Raise Dead and lastly bindstone respawning.  While the appearance of a character, shrouded or otherwise may not scream "Hey look at me...I just died!", the physical, debilitating effects would be noticeable to an observer.  

As people have said, you will likely move slower, be more lethargic, have trouble thinking and speaking clearly, appear weaker and so forth.  Since NWN doesn't let us effectively display these sorts of traits outwardly, the glow serves as an OOC sort of queue for an IC sort of observation. "Hey Bob, you feeling alright?  You seem sort of sluggish."

And yep, the other side of the coin is that people can just include that in their emotes...which is perfectly fine as well, though the downside is that if anyone new comes around, someone who would also be able to see your character looking (literally) like death warmed over, you have to keep emoting that fact or send tells...something.  An outside observer would conversely need to reflexively use the radial Examine on everyone to get an idea of a recent death experience or be potentially completely oblivious to the possibility.

By the way, I'm not trying to convince one way or the other.  This is all a matter of perspective, and I get the sense that some of us as players interpret a little more into the ghostly glow, like perhpaps that it's "insult to injury" or something.

And no one's answering my question from several posts up.

[miltonyorkcastle]

And no one's answering my question from several posts up.

For me, it's the VFX. Whether it's applied for ten minutes or ten hours makes little difference.


Perhaps we could give the option to turn off the vfx at the bindstone. In this way those that wish to keep the vfx can do so, and those that wish to get rid of it can have their cake, too.

[orth]

I'm sorry if I'm not getting the problem here?  If someone is RPing that you look ghosty, then tell them its wrong.  If they ask you if you're feeling okay, say what you shall.  What's the deal?

Is this a matter of the player's ego being hurt to have to saunter around displaying to people that they just died? Why do you feel you must log off rather then play ghosty?