Epic Spellcasting.

[iceyfire]

When i had first purchased the Hotu expansion with promises of epic spell progression.. I was overjoyed.. But once i got into game and tried the system out i felt cheated and rather disapointed with it.
I mean asking for precious feats to get a few one use spells?..
Didnt seem worth it, seemed mostly pointless to progress past level 20 as a wizard.
I have been searching for a change to this system and well i found it...

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Hakpaks.Detail&id=1044#Files

Here is a little quote from the readme.

"This is a spellcasting system I designed to enable high-level epic casters to research
epic spells for a cost of experience and gold, rather than spend one of their valuable
feats at level-up. This is not a dreamed-up scheme to make casters more powerful, or
anything; it's made with the official Epic Level Handbook rules in mind, with a few
embellishments. If anything, it attempts to promote a little more balance, since things
are a little out of balance as is when compared to Epic melee characters. (No improved
spellcasting capacity feats, casting Prestige classes, etc.) Of course this is highly
debatable, but that's for the forums, not here.

The general idea behind it is setting up a bunch of seed books around the world.. To learn as preqs to the spell themselves, taking much gold and experience in the process off the character to research.
Some of the spells themselves seem to be good for rp purposes, some seem to be good for a bit of fun and others seem decent and a few are overpowered.
Also a spellcraft check is made on casting and researching of these spells so one could limit who could use them should they place books around the land.
The system itself is what is most intriguing, being able to add more spells into the game for casters to play around with, especially after or just before epic levels.

Best idea is to check it out yourself, im sure im not the only one feeling this.....

Discuss your results i would be most interested to hear.

[Weeblie]

Sounds like the normal D&D rules...

But, you know how insane amount of gold and how insane high spellcraft you need to research the epic spells?

Take Hellball for example. It requires 810 000 GP, 32 4000 XP, Seed Energy and has a DC 90 spellcraft check. And, when casted, it does 10d6 damage to the caster and also takes 400 XP. To remove the negative factors, you end up with a DC 104 spellcraft check to research it... Ouch!

Edit: Heh! Excellent for the economy, though...

[iceyfire]

Yes.. But, things can be changed to bring them more in line with the server aswell as it being an epic spell needing much much much effort to do... Maybe epic spells could be achieved in Elaborate CDQ's and quests.
Opens up some new broad opportunity's to quests.

[Dorganath]

Epic spells are obtained through a complex CDQ...it's called an ECDQ
  Seriously though....It's almost completly unlikely that a high-level (read: non-epic) spellcaster would be able to produce the insanely high spellcraft checks needed to succeed in something like this on Layonara.  That and we want epic spells to stay in the epic range, and have even moved one 9th level spell (Time Stop) into the Epic spell range.
  Not to mention also that some of those spells seem very powerful, and they most likely would simply not fit Layonara.

[Faldred]

I just thought I'd add a note that there is also a difference between epic spells and epic spell casting.  In either case, you are using your precious feats, but in one case, you are picking up essentially a once/day 10th level spell.  In the other case, you are making your "mundane" spell casting more powerful.

Do you spend your feats on Mummy Dust, Hellball, etc.?  Or do you look for things like Automatic Still Spell to allow for casting in armor?  Or Automatic Quicken Spell to be able to cast twice in a round for big battles?

There's a lot of ways to customize an epic mage (and Wizards more easily than Sorcerers because they get more bonus feats, including the four extra in non-epic levels to get some of the pre-requisites), but all of them still gain additional spells per day and a higher DC to bypass spell resistance and saves.

[ZeroVega]

Personally, I think there should be an Epic Spell Progression anyway. Eg: You have Fireball right? It does d6 fire damage per level to a maximum of 10d6 right? Well, I think once you hit level 21, it should begin another progression. So instead of the normal Fireball description think of this...

d6 per level to a maximum of 10d6 at level 10. At level 22 add 1d6 damage, plus 1d6 per two levels. Which means the spell wouldn't just stop progressing, it would continue to get more powerful, as I believe is realistic as far as magic is concearned. I think it would also be interesting for other spells to instead of gain extra damage upon Epic Progression, to gain new "effects".

Eg: Meteor Swarm. 1d6 Fire Damage per level to a maximum of 20d6 at level 20. At level 24, +d6 physical damage, +d6 physical for every level thereafter. (I mean, I understand it's a fire spell, but they're freaking meteors, it's gonna do more than just burn you, ya know?) (Could do something similar with the Clerical Fire Storm spell.)

Or Prismatic Spray: Fortitude save or be blind for d6 rounds. (Gain this at level 25)

How about Earthquake: d6 physical damage per level to a maximum of 10d6. Upon Epic Progression add an additional d6 for ever even numbered level. At level 30, Reflex save or be knocked down for d6 rounds.

I, know we've got other things to think about for Layo. Things that are far more important. Heck, it won't even affect me really. Plus when NWN 2 does come out, if we switch over, we won't even have to worry about Epic Progression until expansions come out AND a character makes it that high, which will take a while. Just somethink to keep in mind for later on. A backburner idea. Peace!

[iceyfire]

I did not mean that i wanted these spells in particular as they are... I meant thinking more along the lines of progression, bigger better spells, to bring the casters more in line with other classes.
I feel their is a lot of slow down interms of damage dealing ability with casters once they pass twenty.
I was thinking they needed a few more cool things.. Hey some useless fun spells that take time to aquire.. Like the ability to polymorph your enemy.. *Mass penguin..*.
I liked the system set here as you could add in new spells and give it a bit of customization.
I just feel something is missing, Wizards should have lots of useless, fun, and powerful spells... But hey im guessing im a bit biased .
Doesnt matter just a thought *Grins*

[Leanthar]

I agree. Wizards, and indeed ALL classes should be able to get bigger/better stuff through epic. But to do it we must do it to ALL classes at one time and balance them out. We can not just add to a single (or even a few) classes without doing all of them otherwise balance is right out the window. So...this is one HUGE project (100's of hours if done right) but one that I would support. It would take 3-4 peoeple at least 30-50 hours each to do it right though... and then the poor people doing the 2das would have to merge everything. And this is just the tip of the iceburg.

[Eloyn]

Not to mention how unbalanced classes are already.

[iceyfire]

Mmm, the implementation would be difficult in the time frame i guess.
When we think of it September for nwn2 unless it get's delayed further, then probably Jan For Layonara 2.
With the ability to create new spells and feats possibly on the fly...
Mmm, disregard

[Talan Va'lash]

NWN2 will be a great opportunity to tailor a lot more things to our wants from the start.  Epic progressions is surely on that list

[miltonyorkcastle]

ehhh... fireball does get better at epic levels.... it's called "maximized empowered fireball" ....