Post by: Guardian 452 on December 04, 2013, 10:41:47 am
Post by: Aphel on December 04, 2013, 10:47:29 am
The question should not be what, how, or even who - it should be why?
Why should I invest my spare time here?
Post by: Nyralotep on December 04, 2013, 11:08:50 am
In my case I dont have the ability to play tabletop RP although I would love to do so. That leaves online and from what I have seen there is a real dearth of real RP online. Maybe I havent been looking in the right places but Layonara has filled that role for me in the past and is doing so again. Yeah it's an ancient game engine but that can be obviated by having a rich world that you can actually have a change to make an impact.
I've played a number of ARPG's but they all become grind fests at some point and eventually the only thing keeping you there is the people. I've met some awesome people before when I was active and I've met more awesome people now that I'm back. I like having a community where I can come and have my RP immersion from the comfort of my own home.
I would like to see what G-452 has proposed be put into place.
At least that's my $0.02.
Post by: Guardian 452 on December 04, 2013, 11:34:18 am
Make these and or other significant changes... let new and especially OLD players know about it. If the place doesnt pick up in population, and in donations it is clear then that this version of layo is truly dead. What does anyone stand to loose in making such big changes at this point?
If not.. I am 100% in agreement with CBnicholson from the other thread.
I say have a few send off x2 xp weekends and shut it down. As someone who has been a long time donator, my opinion is that Layo is about done. Another round of donations is only going to delay the inevitable even if they amount to enough to keep it Layo running for the next few months. I don't believe anyone has a particular onus against the team or the state of things ig, I just think many of us, myself included, have outgrown the world and possibly the system it runs on. The changes like fortune have been nice, but from my perspective they haven't enticed me to play more nor do they seem to be having the desired effect on the vast majority of former/present players. My 2 true.
Post by: miltonyorkcastle on December 04, 2013, 01:27:48 pm
One way to keep people interested and playing: consistent content updates/additions- say, a new set of areas/new static quest/new playable race/new playable class/etc. every 4-6 weeks. Of course, to have this, you need someone who is constantly working on the modules and working with GMs to combine quests with new, spicy areas. And guess what? We don't have someone that does that or can do that at this time. We keep trying to find someone that is willing and able, and everytime we think we've done that, something happens and the person (usually for very good reasons) has to rather suddenly step away.
Another way is to have regularly scheduled quests every day, so people know they can hop in at the given time any week and find a quest in which to RP. Also, we (the GM team) are designing the next plot series in a manner such that each quest will be a stand-alone, meaning that even if you can't make every quest in the larger series, your character can start and finish one complete story via the quest. Imagine it like a TV series, where each episode has a beginning, middle, and end, and one episode can stand alone from the rest of the episodes in the season. That way if you can only make the one quest in a month, you don't feel like you're coming into a situation where you don't know what the heck is going on, and when it's over things don't just feel unfinished for you and your character.
Another way is to make it very easy and free to distribute, install, and run the interface (NWN). Well, the download is a little long, though easy to find. It's not free, but it's cheap. And the install? Erg. Maybe it runs, maybe it doesn't. I know a few tricks to get it to run on almost any system, but not everyone does, and after the first hour of trying to run the dang thing, most people just give up. Maybe we should try a new interface? Oh, right, we've been trying to build one for quite some time. If only we had more capable volunteers and time in a day, we might be done.
Okay, so clearly I don't stick around because of the interface (NWN) or the awesome new content to explore. Heck, I don't even really get to play in quests anymore. Why the duece am I even still around? Ah, right. Because I love to RP, I love stories (especially in sword and sorcery settings), and I am heavily invested in the Layonara world. I will keep creating stories for Layonara until I'm dead, I suspect. I run PnP Layo quests (in person! *gasp*), I run NWN Layo quests, and I am in the middle of writing modules and short stories and screenplays based in the Layo setting. If I could make a living just creating stories/content for Layo, I'd quit my current job in a heartbeat, and by the gods, y'all would see a serious amount of material start floating onto these forums. But I can't. So I keep working on stuff when I can.
I'm not here to play a video game. Which is probably the biggest reason why I'm still here.
Post by: Pen N Popper on December 04, 2013, 03:24:20 pm
Ahoy!
Would there be interest in re-establishing a community on another gaming platform? I honestly don't have any suggestions, or preferences, to which game could be chosen. The goal would simply: Land somewhere where RP could happen effectively amongst the group. Having worked in the tech world for so many years, I know there is true value in having a core like-minded community. Find a niche problem to solve, drive a wedge into the crack, and expand.
Minecraft - Very attractive to a wide range of player ages, extensible, easy to tie servers together (you could build your own house interior running on your own tiny server).
roll20.net - Host GM quests in real pen-n-paper fashion, transferring XP and loot back to game server
There are so many game platforms out there on which to begin coating the sand with pearl. Let's have oyster!
Best wishes to all!
~PnP
P.S. Quick google: https://www.themanaworld.org/
Post by: Guardian 452 on December 04, 2013, 03:31:00 pm
Milton touched on some other points I was thinking of. Ive never been a huge fan of the long drawn out quest series... but I know several here love and live for them! Those are missing (less frequent than they once were)... but what is also missing. The random lost child, random attack by orcs, wild animals etc on a town. random pop in's jsut because we need tormented by whomever the big bad guy currently is. I remember a long long time ago when Llast was under seige.. it lasted for hours! Wave after wave.... laggy as H3LL but was it fun!
So even fixing some of the areas I talked about above will only go so far.... we need GM's. I dare say having a GM on about anytime more than say 2 people were on... adding a some color or spice here... having a sit down RP with some traveler there... etc. That stuff goes a long way! Not just being able to level up quicker or not loose my character cause I had my final crappy dice roll. And since Layo cant pay its GM's they need rewarded another way to make them want to GM! Dunno what that is yet... better XP rates, higher fortune rates... unique items? a secret decoder ring?
.
Post by: Aphel on December 04, 2013, 03:51:07 pm
I agree with milty.
Post by: Pen N Popper on December 04, 2013, 04:34:57 pm
Umm... you know what would get me back? How about some RP here
http://forums.layonara.com/gallery/image/prealphassforestpng
Is the next-generation actually still in-progress? You'd being doing yourselves a big favor by figuring out how to fire up the belly of a sailing ship... then a deck... then another ship off the port bow! Attack! Then... what could be more exciting than a new story that literally starts from nothing, a simple ship, and grows in unknown directions.
Crikey I don't understand Layonara strategy at all!
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/ They've raised $34M and _won't release for a year_!
Post by: Aphel on December 04, 2013, 04:50:57 pm
I have tried that before, Pen, for world building/story writing. It can be interesting, and can go so horribly wrong at the same time. It's fun, tho, and lots of it. If you are into using the traveling spade of death a lot. And don't mind transitions from desert to jungle swept under the rug by exclaiming "It's MAGIC!" and adding another point to your \\\\TODO list that'll expand exponentially depending on your skill in making excuses.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/ They've raised $34M and _won't release for a year_!
I am not sure if that is just advanced trolling or actually enhanced interroga - marketing! - techniques for the whole EVE/X crowd.
Post by: Dorganath on December 09, 2013, 10:36:24 pm
OK, so you've made your "demands" (original post), now tell me, reasonably, what you think would be acceptable.
I'm not committing to anything right now, but I have to say, I've coded in a lot of "gimmes" over the last year...upped XP rates for the low end (on the order of 3x what they were), introduced a 'something for nothing' system (well, sort of) I said I'd never introduce (a.k.a. Fortune) and yet among the first things requested for "keeping interest" are doubling of these gimmes. Let me just say...I skeptical that even the doubling will be "enough". I thought about going into a mathematical rebuttal of the assertions made, but I'll let it lie and just say that there may be some merit in adjusting the low-end XP curves, but Fortune is not intended to let someone ramp up levels in a significantly faster manner. The steady-state rate is not meant to be earthshaking. It's meant to be more than you would have had otherwise, which was nothing. And to be honest, I've had pretty good feedback on Fortune in general. I even had one person tell me it "makes solo crafting worthwhile." I guess it's a matter of opinion and perspective.
But I understand the point of your post at its core. If you don't ask, you won't get. So if we consider that list to be the "wouldn't it be awesome if..." options, how about some more realistic options? What would actually make more sense? What would make a reasonable difference, and could we revert things if you were wrong?
Would any of it really encourage more people to be in-game and RPing at any given moment?
Milton touched on some other points I was thinking of. Ive never been a huge fan of the long drawn out quest series... but I know several here love and live for them! Those are missing (less frequent than they once were)... but what is also missing. The random lost child, random attack by orcs, wild animals etc on a town. random pop in's jsut because we need tormented by whomever the big bad guy currently is. I remember a long long time ago when Llast was under seige.. it lasted for hours! Wave after wave.... laggy as H3LL but was it fun!
Brace yourself...I agree!
At least mostly. The occasional long quest series can be engaging. I have developed a deep loathing of time bubbles though, except in extreme cases, and usually then, I'd prefer for the characters to be unplayable during those intervals rather than in a bubble.
But yes...random randomness...usually fun!
So even fixing some of the areas I talked about above will only go so far.... we need GM's. I dare say having a GM on about anytime more than say 2 people were on... adding a some color or spice here... having a sit down RP with some traveler there... etc. That stuff goes a long way! Not just being able to level up quicker or not loose my character cause I had my final crappy dice roll. And since Layo cant pay its GM's they need rewarded another way to make them want to GM! Dunno what that is yet... better XP rates, higher fortune rates... unique items? a secret decoder ring?
I also agree with the bit about mechanical changes only going so far (see the first part of this post). Historically, they don't make a long-term difference but a spike. People on the server draw people. GMs on the server draw more people. More people on the server draw GMs more often. It's kind of a circular dependence. I hear what you're saying very clearly, but it's also chicken-and-egg. Players want to have GMs on more. GMs need players to be online to do anything. If both are watching the Server Status waiting for one or the other, nothing happens! This is an inherent problem in a relatively small active community. It's not an "us" problem or a "you" problem, but a "we" problem.
As for giving GMs a bonus...I can do all these things (well, not sure about the decoder ring), but the question is: Will the community support this?
We have historically not rewarded GMs with anything for being GMs. This blanket policy prevents any sort of grousing about GMs getting kickbacks or special things or faster advancement or whatever. Last year when I gave out GM rewards, I did everything up-front and in the collective eye of the community so there would be no question. Overwhelmingly, the community supported the idea, but there were a few who thought that GMs did not deserve anything else.
So I'm not opposed to this kind of thing, if everyone's in agreement, but then I think the inherent problem is that it doesn't really encourage GMs being GMs more frequently. If anything, it gives a bias toward being logged in as their characters instead. In some ways this is good, but it doesn't necessarily lead to a greater in-game GM presence. Or maybe it does. I don't know.
You tell me! Is this a good idea?
Post by: Dorganath on December 09, 2013, 11:18:10 pm
Crikey I don't understand Layonara strategy at all!
Like Aphel, I am really not sure what your intent with such commentary might be, but on the off-chance you're being serious...
The lapses in our development of the next generation of Layonara have had nothing to do with a "strategy", PnP. If you read my restart of the DevLog, you would know that the most significant component of delay in our next-generation projects have everything to do with significant impacts to the personal lives of the core team for making that next generation a reality. Hopefully that isn't too hard to understand.
No one wants the next generation more than those of us who have been working toward that goal for quite some time.
Post by: Guardian 452 on December 10, 2013, 01:20:26 am
My initial post wasn't supposed to be demands.... But it looks like they were. Clearly people are still passionate about the place.... The mention of it closing and it's already funded for two more months. It really is a chicken and egg thing. People will draw people.... People will draw GMs, gms will draw people. I thought some (all) of those ideas or "demands" might kick start the cycle. I could see adding and reverting implemented ideas too.
Post by: Dorganath on December 10, 2013, 08:54:52 am
Oh, I understand, and that's why I put "demands" in quotes. It's like a negotiation...one starts at a point one considers "ideal" and the end result is some give-and-take after figuring out what works out best for all the involved interests.
In truth, I was hoping to some ideas that didn't involve wholesale hand-outs, because greater attendance only happens while those hand-outs are in effect. If made permanent, they become the new "normal", and people eventually get bored and uninterested in the normal. Tell me honestly...if in 6 or 12 months you were still earning some increased amount of XP, would it still hold your interest, or would you be wondering when the next bonus event is?
Last time we did a Soul Mother holiday, it was supposed to last for....a RL year, I think maybe 6 months? We lasted 2 months, because people went completely nuts, and the "Bindstone Express" became the preferred method of returning heavily encumbered from a mining trip. We had people who were thrilled about the holiday begging us to put the Soul Mother back because any and all respect for death went out the door....rapidly. Players became reckless and other players often faced the unwanted consequences of such recklessness. So might it bring people back? Yes, possibly. Is it good for us long-term? Maybe...maybe not.
Would you (or anyone, really) like the option of choosing a lower chance of SS loss for a lower rate of combat XP vs. a higher rate of combat XP with an increased chance of SS loss, assuming you had the ability to select one or the other? Would such a trade-off be appealing?
I'm just looking for the middle ground.
Post by: Serissa on December 10, 2013, 02:12:03 pm
The server status page has been unreliable since we switched carriers, especially as to whether the newer characters show up. Maybe a fix to that would help a little?
Post by: Guardian 452 on December 10, 2013, 02:30:13 pm
I would choose any option that had a lower or no chance for SS. This is just me of course. But if the trade off made character progression more stagnant than it is now I wouldnt even want that. so... i dunno.
The stagnent progression can be fixed... it can be fixed without much change to XP rates. We need more people playing. This world is solo unfriendly, always has been, most likely always will be. So the solution is more people playing... just need to figure out how to get to that solution now ;)
.
Post by: IceDragonDuvessa on December 10, 2013, 04:01:08 pm
I actually like the soul strands. The chance to get them is so low that to perm you would have to be both extremely careless AND unlucky. It adds a value to your character that you wouldn't have if there was no chance of losing it ever and the loss of a strand gives excellent opportunities for RP. Plus if you make it up to epic you can take that feat to give you 10 more.
That said for death I would like to see the xp penalty removed from the third death in 30 minutes. Its always been there, I know and I appreciate very much that death effects have been made less horrible but this one crushes me on my squishy leather wearing cleric. Ive lost at least 50K of that coveted xp. That loss inspired me however, to do some work on the mod a bit.
Before the untimely death of my computer I was working on tweaking lowbie area spawns to not need a full group and adding some static quests (that will include a couple new dungeons) in to help people get off the ground. I believe I WAS able to save the work I had done already which is exciting, but it will be a lil bit before I can get back at it.
Post by: miltonyorkcastle on December 10, 2013, 04:04:21 pm
I think the feat gives you five more strands, not ten, but yeah, any more you can get is worth it, heh.
Post by: Leanthar on December 11, 2013, 09:51:56 am
Post by: mixafix on January 07, 2014, 09:39:23 am
Never saw this thread till late so adding in the extended bonus time too, and throwing out some thoughts.
Fortune -
I like this as a system for encouraging those people on RPing, crafting, and doing other low xp reward activities not to feel left out of things. In the event a GM sees good stuff he can of course reward players as normal. I think the value is high enough and is a nod or token to those players doing low xp activities. I see it as a minimum reward and not something for those already out bashing xps. Oh and really like the idea fortune can be used for all sort of other things so hats off to that thought!
Double the EXP rate
not sure how much this would help, I prefer the bonus events already used and perhaps another way for gaining reward during bonus events or at other times is to reward achieving things rather than merely bashing during bonus times. A consideration here perhaps for future bonus events or indeed other times is to locate some special holiday points of interest - or of course a themed end of dungeon cache, providing some sort of rewards...perhaps fortune points. These could be dropped in to not so well used locations during special events - encouraging play where limited gm presence is possible but where players in all time zones can feel they are part of the one themed event. (so not just about xp bonus?)
Reduce the 3 million gap from level 20 to 21. -
dont mind the amount but never really got how it goes back down after one particularly hard level, especially as wldq are not really likely to happen to get by this so...yeah not advocating an easier journey, just one that does not have a disproportionate hurdle half way as it may be a turning point for some players.
Remove the SS system. -
I side with those that prefer SS risk to remain, though think something that increases as it goes has left a few high level characters sidelined but not forgotten. Not sure it is worth changing now but for old characters (in some cases really old *coughs at Guardian) maybe some option IG to recover a SS. (maybe they could invest some of those fortune points) Most modern characters I suspect have had it much easier and are pretty comfortable with the risk.
Increase the amount of high end CNR (more places to find it)-
... I think the big runs are pretty essential, there are only a very few things where you can come away with your big PCs and go wow...so more power to them to be honest. I support systems/gm intervention that allow players out of course who cannot complete with a particular group but feel that can be done pretty simply by pausing. (I spent 6 weekly sessions with one group on a dungeon run.....enjoyed that more than most things ive done ..so kudos to the big runs...the odd freshen up if time permitted would be icing on the cake.
Do all the above and let the players who left know about it-
well whatever is done we can all help by telling people so yeah. Just got to keep trying here - every one of us, we all gain from it, right?
Get some GM events going again (get some GM's first).-
I get the chicken and egg thoughts around this but little or no GMs is not good and so even if a GM is chasing an audience if time permits I think it has to be worth trying, particularly in the non usa time zones where drop off is highest and gm activity lowest.
Continue to "improve" this version with new areas, items, content.-
I see this as the hardest to fufill given all the time problems but every little change is surely appreciated - and simply done gms putting in the odd clue/treasure/encounter as a one off just by dropping them is quite doable at little effort given the fantastic longevity of server staying up.
So overall I appreciate the tweaking done this past while, particularly where there is limited resources and severe demands on time. My goal would be maximum RP for minimum time over maximum xp for minimum time.
Post by: Aphel on January 07, 2014, 10:11:53 am
"I'm not lacking ideas, merely time and people. Oh. And stamps of approval."
Post by: RollinsCat on January 07, 2014, 12:07:58 pm
maybe some option IG to recover a SS. (maybe they could invest some of those fortune points)
From the list Dorg posted:
Graceful Pleas – Yes, I said it. You will be able to spend Fortune to buy a Graceful Plea, even if you have used all three for a given character. The cost is high, and rightly so. At present, it will cost 100 Fortune to gain one Graceful Plea.
Post by: mixafix on January 07, 2014, 01:25:10 pm
Thanks RollinsCat
Good point about the graceful plea system which is a good route for prevention - for those thinking ahead. It likely does not suit the 'last chance saloon' concerns of those already sitting on their last SS, as getting that pc into game might prove difficult. I had more thought along the lines of spending points/or some other method that allowed an IG chance of pursuing the return of a SS - which one way or another of course might turn out to be an all or nothing event for one so close to perming. Not sure ..maybe something more of a collective and collecting type challenge with less personal risk might be the way to go - with a nice financial price tag thrown in for good measure! It could even draw some others into some rp ..hey hey win win!
Post by: cbnicholson on January 09, 2014, 10:25:42 am
Make the real life times of travel smaller. I know I've suggested this before and Dorg is against it, but for many, it's a killer to run 15 min real life to get to Miritrix, meet up, then go forth for adventure. How about some more pay for portals in some of those hard to reach areas? 300 true to a character over 25th lvl really shouldn't be anything to fret over. My 2 true again or 300, either way.
Post by: mixafix on January 16, 2014, 10:53:56 am
Following on from some of the themes here I thought of a similar one that might draw groups together, even some friendly rivalry.
Player/s and GM discuss..
Establish and declare common goal, with no cost or some fortune points or CDQ or whatever.
Work out the cost of various sub goals in materials and tokens. At a server reset place tokens in game. These may be in themed locations but generally speaking should be placed around the world encouraging exploration, rp and questing around and essentially against the clock (in the form of the next reset) .
It could encourage a rival group to find the tokens to prevent success.
The token count is used to build the common goal - perhaps a combination of window dressing and adventure sites.
eg. Some dwarves get together to claim the lost halls. Some building requirements are agreed with a gm. Perhaps a quest is run to launch the theme. Tokens are placed in game with some associated announcement and rumour drops decided by the GM.
The usual suspects - PC corathites, goblins, orcs etc may choose to try and thwart this plan..what knowledge they hold about it would be up to the GM and the general theme.
They organise some rp and go in search of the tokens too to thwart the collection count by the Dwarves.
On a successful count some aspect of the challenge is complete and in game the Dwraves get a new meeting hall for their uncovered halls with a nice rest area for all to use, the great anvil is going to take some more tokens etc
In tandem with this a level of dungeon might be added below the halls or nearby - for exploring....both the dungeon and the candy count in the halls can be added to with further token searches.
Some of these visual gains have been done via wldq and perhaps cdq previously. This idea though would expand the possible involvement to a larger audience and particularly targets getting in game in their own time to explore and rp a particular theme. Given the reduction of quests and the end of WLDQ this might be a way to keep RP going and follows the maximum RP for minimum GM time theme.
Post by: Aphel on January 16, 2014, 11:20:20 am
I like the idea, especially since we already have deity-related things. I have already tried and started something here in the forums with one character, but those involved - including myself - do not have enough time right now. And while it's understandable, not having enough time and not having enough players really is a problem for a world like Layonara.
I think I can provide impulses to some more of those, I'll try to type them up real quick and post them here as concepts.
Post by: Dorax Windsmith on January 16, 2014, 11:09:25 pm
eg. Some dwarves get together to claim the lost halls. Some building requirements are agreed with a gm. Perhaps a quest is run to launch the theme. Tokens are placed in game with some associated announcement and rumour drops decided by the GM.
The usual suspects - PC corathites, goblins, orcs etc may choose to try and thwart this plan..what knowledge they hold about it would be up to the GM and the general theme.
They organise some rp and go in search of the tokens too to thwart the collection count by the Dwarves.
Wow Mix, what a fabulous idea! I'm in!
Post by: Aphel on January 18, 2014, 02:02:46 pm
Took me a little longer than expected to get around to it, but here are some ideas from my side.
An effort for the wardens of the land
After the war against the cult and the recent famine and the destruction of settlements in or near woods by dark elves, there are plenty of tasks to solve to rebuild and strengthen both their numbers, resources and influence. Recruits need to be found, alliances made and resources of all kinds gathered. The wolfswood, the forest of fog and other regions provide a lot of possibilities for RP and development. There are conflicts with the city dwellers to solve, conflicts on the borders of kingdoms and so on, and some might even support those nature-aligned in unlikely alliances: Kingdoms have a keen interest in information about what is going on in their sphere of influence and need capable scouts for their armies, some religions like to have access to good trackers or information about where certain creatures dwell. Those patrolling the lands and taking care of it are usually the first to find and fight undead incursions, attacks from the deep or corruption that whips wild creatures into a frenzy. Also, great mysteries are hidden - for a reason - and harsh guardians make sure that they are not discovered.
And cultural endevour
There have been a lot of enjoyable events of a more cultured nature in the past, but why stop there? Between the Silver Buckle, The Angel's Guild and The Academy of Hempstead there are still a lot of things to explore, stories to write and to read, and songs to sing and dramas to play. I'd love to see something like a school for artists, a theatre piece or two, an gallery of sculptures and so forth. Culture is also a well of provoking ideas: why not spread literacy, or discuss ethics, morale and religious philosophies? It goes even further, to the point where problems must be solved and things devised: what good civilisation without development of technology? A meeting of those interested or professional in crafting generates not only conflict between them, but also with other factions that do not like when certain things are developed. In short: stories ought to be written, paintings to be painted, a theatrr or bard school founded, knowledge spread, solutions found for problems that ill individuals and groups. Dwarves retaking old places? Hilm and Fiorez developing their spheres of influence? Regions recovering from war and famine? There's plenty of opportunity to be had for arts and sciences.
With fortune and the possibility to write forum entries in IC forums (CDT or others), most of the "tokens" can be aquired without much further ado, however, it's important to do it.
Post by: Aphel on February 04, 2014, 10:12:32 am
Quote from: "mixafix"&cid="2752837"eg. Some dwarves get together to claim the lost halls. Some building requirements are agreed with a gm. Perhaps a quest is run to launch the theme. Tokens are placed in game with some associated announcement and rumour drops decided by the GM.
The usual suspects - PC corathites, goblins, orcs etc may choose to try and thwart this plan..what knowledge they hold about it would be up to the GM and the general theme.
They organise some rp and go in search of the tokens too to thwart the collection count by the Dwarves.
Wow Mix, what a fabulous idea! I'm in!
Anything moving in this direction already?
Post by: miltonyorkcastle on February 04, 2014, 12:35:09 pm
Actually, yes. At least, I'm working with a current WL on something like what Mix suggests. :)
Post by: Aphel on February 20, 2014, 08:02:55 am
Use the "Rumor has it" section of the forums to spread news and rumors about the world, making it look less static. Severe weather destroying roads near Fort Llast? Storms keeping the merchant fleet of Hempstead in the harbor? Trade relations between two kingdoms improved by new bill on trade taxes? Let us know!