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Author Topic: Improving Layonara Experience.  (Read 993 times)

Dremora

Improving Layonara Experience.
« on: December 09, 2012, 09:36:06 am »
Im opening up this thread to bring together people who may have some unorthodox, under-used and/or other-server-inspired ideas for improving the Layonara experience that does not necessarily require other people playing.

Presently, solo-able activities are CNR gathering, grinding, playing cards. Unfortunately, Layonara experiences a decent number of players most frequently whenever a quest is on and this to me may be because there is nothing else to do but grind a very very long, ardous and unenjoyable ladder to the next level on your way to 40, or up the CNR levelling ladder (grinding as well).

So.. has anyone got some thoughts about scripted/automated systems that could be designed and put into Layonara that allows for people to do things when others arent online and keep them entertained. Thus keeping a higher population presence on average and hopefully.. bringing in more people so that they can then group together and do stuff?

Repeatable quests (darkstorme was running a bounty hunting deal once)? Randomized spawns (yes, dangerous and perhaps not suitable since people have to put arguably too much effort into characters to get them to high levels that may then be torn away by a cruel spawn)? A different type of minigame other than basically NWN pokemon :P? Perhaps randomized events where a GM can come on, activiate a code and something bad happens to a village or something else and with a message on the forums, people can come investigate and solve the area (this would require work in advance and isnt friendly on people lacking time). Just throw your idas in and lets see if we don't come across something workable that the dev time is willing to invest time in that may improve the playing experience on a server before it goes stagnant at all times except for quest days.
 
The following users thanked this post: miltonyorkcastle, Mooneyes, Spike, RollinsCat, Aphel

RollinsCat

Re: Improving Layonara Experience.
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2012, 10:04:29 am »
There is a game-in-game at the Leringard Arms: Demon cards?  Don't know the name of it, I've never played but Lance ran a tournament once.  It's supposed to be fun and a decent way to earn coin if you're not a grinder.
 

Dorganath

Re: Improving Layonara Experience.
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2012, 12:59:12 pm »
Quote from: RollinsCat
There is a game-in-game at the Leringard Arms: Demon cards?  Don't know the name of it, I've never played but Lance ran a tournament once.  It's supposed to be fun and a decent way to earn coin if you're not a grinder.

I think that's what he means by NWN Pokemon.
 

Aphel

Re: Improving Layonara Experience.
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2012, 01:05:55 pm »
I am sure it'd be a good idea to propose fan projects, for the Toolset inclined: make a proposal, hash it out, and attach a script or more to your proposal. Those could be vetted and tested by those sufficiently insane to do so.

Some other ideas:
  • More Singleplayer quests. Lots of them. Maybe accept player proposals for quests?
  • Add fluff to the world, for example books. Player submissions acceptable, it is POV anyway and not necessarily correct, what better way to ensure this? Not sure if it is possible to add books which have to remain inside a shelf/building. Maybe similar to the key script used in the Krandor crypts.
  • Add factions, generate random quests/requests from faction, e.g. monthly faction quest like "Bring xyz to improve/maintain faction/create new faction hold in ..."

At the end of the month, a GM can check if the goal was fulfilled.
  • Add items with OnItemScripts, e.g. items that could only be used in certain areas with a certain tag/property. Or daytime. Lots, please.
  • Add some weird solo quests like a paper chase. Or an elaborate game of tag.
  • Create scripts that help players to help set up player events and their impact. Scripts for Inn owners that could generate loss/gain based on decisions would also be nice. Economic scripts?
  • Encourage players to have character's doing strange stuff. Like writing philosophic works, training schedules, ...
  • Invoke Arthur C. Clarke's second and third law. And let players experiment with it. Best ideas could be awarded in the "Semi-annual award for mad engineering".
Maybe some motivation for stepping forward and presenting own ideas, halfly hashed-out and some documentation and standardization away from being implemented.
 

RollinsCat

Re: Improving Layonara Experience.
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2012, 01:20:51 pm »
re: Pokeman.  Yes.  Apparently I didn't read his post well enough.  My apologies.
 

Dorganath

Re: Improving Layonara Experience.
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2012, 01:51:24 pm »
Anything that says "add" and involves items has to be taken very carefully, as the space we have in our modules is very limited at the moment.  It limits the sorts of things we can do that involve new-ness.  

For example, the 100+ custom loot items that were added in this past update were only possible because I removed the previous 100+ custom loot items from the modules. As a result, they no longer drop.  

Anyway, the ideas which involve adding "lots" of items are generally not going to fly for unfortunate, technological reasons.

People are free to submit ideas and even finished code for consideration at any time, but anything and everything is subject to review, especially things that involve scripting.  

More static quests aren't usually too hard, and we have a fairly good system for creating them, except that, again, they usually involve specific items that are unique to the quests, and those take up module space.  Static quests also tend to get stagnant after a while because they're one-shot things, and the shine gets worn off them pretty quickly as a result.  That said, they're not everyone's cup of tea. I personally have probably only done half of them, if that.

Economic scripts have been thought about for quite a long time actually, on and off.  They seem simple at the top, but to do them right, it's really a complex thing.  That's neither a comment for or against them, but rather a lending of perspective.

Players can create all the writings or philosophic works they want.  A lot do!  They're called Character Development Threads.  If you mean in-game, there's a writing system where you can make parchments and distribute them to people.  Someone made a newsletter this way for a while.

There have been player-organized events and organization geared toward training and are very RP-heavy.  The Toran Leadership Program comes to mind, but there are other, less formal initiatives that have popped up from time to time. There's absolutely nothing stopping these things from happening right now...except that it requires some player (or players) to take the initiative to make them happen.  Players don't need anything from the Teams to do this.  Just do it.
 

Dorganath

Re: Improving Layonara Experience.
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2012, 02:12:11 pm »
And for what it's worth, remember that there are a whole lot of things that players can do to change and improve the experience right now.  There's no need to wait for or expect some Grand New System to be developed or for an Infusion of Stuff to improve the experience.  At least half of the experience here comes from the player-base, and that has always been true.

Things that are developed take time....time to design, balance, produce, test, adjust and fix as appropriate.  The really cool stuff impacts more than just the obvious portions of the world, so often what seems like a "small" project can be huge by the time it's really mapped out. As was pointed out, these time frames can be unfriendly to developers with limited time.

So while everyone's standing around, lamenting that we haven't given you This or That, there's a whole lot of things that everyone can do to have something to do that isn't grinding.  

Keep it in mind.
 

Dremora

Re: Improving Layonara Experience.
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2012, 05:43:18 pm »
Don't take offence Dorg, but this thread was set up so if anyone did have any ideas that the team would possibly enjoy and have the time to do and implement to improve the server, they could throw it in here for consideration. I didn't want for it to be another posting of the "DIY" message thats posted around on the forums several times over (and im not saying is wrong). We have seen it before and if people do it, they're already doing what they are prepared to do, im just wondering if anyone has any ideas the team could do to improve their server. But the last two posts you've made almost seem to shoot down the idea indirectly when this pairs up with  pointing out problems before people have even started laying down ideas in detail (if they do). For example I never said static quests. I said repeatable, which may be made fun if they had some randomized element to them no they're not everybody's cup of tea but they just add another element and thing for people to do other than wahts already available.
Its not a inaccurate, in my opinion, to say that the layo population is quite low when quests arent running or CHazzler isnt running one of his adventures was hoping this might help towards getting people to play more even when there is nothing going on at the moment cause theres something new and fresh to do.
 

Dorganath

Re: Improving Layonara Experience.
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2012, 06:10:47 pm »
No offense taken, but I think you misunderstand me a little.

First off, I wasn't just responding to you, but rather just giving some additional information which can and will impact any ideas that people may have, such as those Aphel proposed (to which the main content of my reply was directed).

Ideas are great.  People who are not on the teams spending time to put some flesh on them and donate their time is great.  Truly!  The sad fact is that there are some rather hard and unforgiving technical issues that must be accounted for, and as I stated earlier, they will impact some...perhaps even most of these ideas put forth, and possibly others that have not yet been suggested.

So, rather than have people waste time and effort putting together the New System of Awesomeness only to find out it won't fit in some important way (i.e. such as due to item palette limits), I'd rather advise people up-front that there are constraints.  That's all.  If you see that as "shooting down" then so be it, but personally, I would rather know what my boundaries are up front rather than spend days/weeks/months putting something together with varying degrees of blood, sweat and/or tears only to find out that it won't work and can't be put into use.

You are absolutely right on the server population when there's nothing scheduled.  There's a bunch of factors for that, but regardless, it's true.  In the last update, I even put in a system that encourages people to be logged in, but the impact seems minimal so far.  I know the DIY message has been repeated a fair number of times, but ultimately, if no one shows up, it's all for naught.

The server's current active population is at kind of a weird balance point.  It's not quite low enough to just have the servers running for quests, but it's also not quite high enough for self-determining momentum to form, meaning when people log on to play and stuff kind of happens.  Yeah, it used to happen all the time, and it has nothing to do with systems or whether GMs are online and active or not.  Any reference to DIY is simply to reinforce that it's part of the solution.

Anyway, I hope that clarifies for you.  Otherwise, I'll just stay out of it and keep my advice to myself.
 

Spike

Re: Improving Layonara Experience.
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2012, 07:20:05 pm »
This is something that's been preoccupying me as well, and I've been toying with a number of ideas to address this.

One of the main ones that's been on my mind is the role of the villain. I play a villainous character, and I very much enjoy playing a villainous character. However I've found that I can only really play the role of the villain in either class quests, specific GM quests, or on the forums. This is something I would really like to change, however I have the fear that if I was more openly 'villainous' I would be coming up against the vast majority of the active characters who both outnumber and out level me. Playing a Corathite is quite different from playing a normal evil character, simply because we are the worst of the worst, and very few characters have positive relations with the church. I'm not complaining of course, it's just something to think about from an ooc perspective.  

I mention this as Aphel talked about factions. I think player involvement with factions is a great thing for rp, it gives people an opportunity to work together for a common goal, and if it can be done against an opposing player faction, that's where the fun is (in my opinion). By anyway here are my two ideas:

1) I would like to offer my character (Jehoram) as a personal villain to any good aligned character of a similar level (19). I can work against you in CDQ's, or just make it my business to mess with your particular faction/home church. And of course this could work vice versa, with your character actively pursuing mine in an attempt to stamp out evil. This of course does not mean solely pvp, though I am not opposed to it if there is consent from both parties (It's why I mentioned the level thing).

2) My second idea would be to take the little independent Corath shop (The Arm of the Ram), and transform it into it's own faction. The idea behind it would be a sort of guild for evil characters (or characters that don't mind working with Corathites/Dark Elves etc). It's main purpose would be to introduce all the nefarious characters to each other and allow them to work together under one 'sort of' banner. Normally a collation of evil characters would just fall apart due to infighting but I think if the term 'loose' is stressed and with strong leadership, something awesome could be made. I'm willing to use my own house as a 'headquarters' for such an organization, if any one is willing to take me up on the idea.
 

Tobias

Re: Improving Layonara Experience.
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2012, 07:42:29 pm »
I don't know how much more scripting or additional content the servers can take but, i would love to see more POI's or Spelunking flags out there.  Those were always fun to find. :)  Perhaps some in regards to all the world leaders moments of triumph?

    Also puzzles or riddles would be awesome!  Add five puzzle/riddle challenges in some areas for every ten levels. ( I remember there being some out there.)

    Maybe as well do a treasure hunt quest where you have to locate certain items to complete the quest.  Could possible do one every ten levels.

    Fishing! I would love to see that expanded on more. Add some more variety of fish. Heck you could even implement POI fishing holes! Or if possible add different weight to the fish for boastful RP. ( "I once caught a fish "THIS" big!") Maybe after 10th level of fishing pay a captain one thousand in trues to take you out to the ocean for some deep sea fishing. Expand the time and chances of catching something. You could have maybe up to ten random spots to go to. Also later, if the staff so choose, you could at new recipes to the game.

    Another idea you could do a quest for bird watching. Give a list of ten thru twenty birds and players would have to go out and look for. Click on them to update to quest tracker and continue on your hunt.

    Possible if there is room you could add specific class quest. For rogues you could do a trap collecting quest. twenty traps to find or make.  For clerics and paladins you could have a quest where that have to heal twenty injured people. Of course these individuals would be scatter across the world. For druids and ranger have a quest where they heal or free animals. Again scatter across the world.  Wizards you could do twenty rare books to find and read. (possibly just clicking on a book shelf and have a conversation tied to it.). Sorcerer and bards. I'm thinking places of power twenty different spots. Monks, twenty meditation areas for enlightenment. Fighters and barbarians you could possible do twenty bounty hunter missions where they have to track down and fight wanted men.  The wanted men could go peacefully with a conversation using intimidate or persuade. if that didn't would  then it would lead to a fight.


More suggestions to come!
 

Dremora

Re: Improving Layonara Experience.
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2012, 07:57:16 pm »
kk keep the ideas flowing guys and after abit we can address those put in in more detail. Drop thanks on the posts if you consider ideas worth bringing up again and into more detail if you read the thread!
 

LordCove

Re: Improving Layonara Experience.
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2012, 04:13:45 am »
Mixafix used to employ an ingenious idea to give the community something to do which I myself copied at times.
It requires minimum GM time to set-up and zero GM time to run.

Quest items would be placed around the world in different locations (caves/dungeons/places of interest/places seldom traveled )
These items can be themed and tie in to a quest, or simply the people who find the most items get a small prize and a little xp bump.

This to me was a brilliant idea, as it promoted grouping to get through those harder places, gave people alone on the server something to do, and again, required minimum time to set-up and didn't require a GM to be present.
 

miltonyorkcastle

Re: Improving Layonara Experience.
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2012, 02:13:09 pm »
Quote
Possible if there is room you could add specific class quest. For rogues you could do a trap collecting quest. twenty traps to find or make. For clerics and paladins you could have a quest where that have to heal twenty injured people. Of course these individuals would be scatter across the world. For druids and ranger have a quest where they heal or free animals. Again scatter across the world. Wizards you could do twenty rare books to find and read. (possibly just clicking on a book shelf and have a conversation tied to it.). Sorcerer and bards. I'm thinking places of power twenty different spots. Monks, twenty meditation areas for enlightenment. Fighters and barbarians you could possible do twenty bounty hunter missions where they have to track down and fight wanted men. The wanted men could go peacefully with a conversation using intimidate or persuade. if that didn't would then it would lead to a fight.


Of course, as Dorg mentioned, everything will have to be reviewed, and there are constraints, but also like he said, and we've had community members do this, if you want to write up the static quest (as in, dialogue box options and how the riddle works), figure out the needed NPCs, locations around the world, etc, all you need do is submit the finished (or mostly finished) work, and our project team will look it over, see if it can be implemented, and if so, put it in the module for the next update. Given the tools we have for creating such quests in the module, if you provide the dialogue and quest details, that significantly reduces the time needed to get the static quest into the module.
 

ShiffDrgnhrt

Re: Improving Layonara Experience.
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2012, 12:36:44 am »
Quote from: LordCove
Mixafix used to employ an ingenious idea to give the community something to do which I myself copied at times.
It requires minimum GM time to set-up and zero GM time to run.

Quest items would be placed around the world in different locations (caves/dungeons/places of interest/places seldom traveled )
These items can be themed and tie in to a quest, or simply the people who find the most items get a small prize and a little xp bump.

This to me was a brilliant idea, as it promoted grouping to get through those harder places, gave people alone on the server something to do, and again, required minimum time to set-up and didn't require a GM to be present.

I've always wanted to do something like this from the player side of things.  Having a tendency to play characters that like to teach (probably since I want to be a teacher) I like to send the PCs who my characters tutor things to go do.  Usually it's just RP, but I've always wanted to send someone on a quest to get something that requires them to use the skill we've worked on in RP.  I know there is the PC Quest Tools, but having always been a player who never had the resources of most of the player base I never really had anything to really hide that would be cool to send some one to find.  Is there any way we could make those tools a bit more customizable, perhaps with more options of things to place other than the NPCs?  Sort of like world placeables?  A corpse-like container?  A killable Villainous-looking NPC?  Sending a budding bounty hunter out to kill the NPC I hid somewhere would be cool, or even set up a crime scene with the corpse-box for them to get clues from.
 

 

anything