some thoughts

[LordCove]

I like that idea.

Still dropping the high end items... but then "still" requiring the crafters to put those drops into completed items.

[jan]

UMD does not make a character more powerful by any means. About the best thing I've gotten out of it (considering that scroll DCs are PROHIBITIVELY high) is the use of Athus' Touch, which is another couple of healing spells (that don't work in a DMZ) and a bonus to Heal for bandages.

Well, and Gloves of Harmony, but those don't do much for combat.

*grins*
funny i missed this......

Since UMD doesn't make chars more powerful .......why not open it up to ALL classes ?

A penalty for putting points in it for classes that originally can't use it ( costs 3 instead of 1 for example ) and everything is solved right ?

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

Funny I missed this.

No, Barion. UMD is a class feature for Bards and Rogues, just as Fighters get a few exclusive feats (and TONS of chances to take them), Wizards get their chance at specialization, and Clerics get their Domain powers.

A secondary class feature, but an important (and importantly exclusive) one, as well.

[jan]

Awww ...pretty please ??

I want to wear +3 monk boots , +3 robes that are from another class , a holy blade from a paladin , an evil armor with nice +'s and a LOT more things

Pretty pretty pretty pretty pleeeaasseeeeeee?

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

Give up all armor, dual-wielding, shields, and every weapon feat you've ever taken, and... We'll talk.

[jan]

Got an offer for the dual-wielding ?

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

Sure. Bluff as a class skill. Har.

[Filatus]

I actually disagree with the premiss that the advantage of crafting should lie with the high-end items.

The bulk of the crafting that can be done ingame are low to mid end items. Why? Because that's where you find the largest supply and demand. On Layo several crafts had the problem that in that range, drops were over abundant. I'm thinking of iron weapons and infused wands in particular.

Those are two types of items that are in high demand. People actually do use wands of cure poison and such, but, they dropped often enough that there never was a real market for them. You only see high levelled players who do not see that drop range in their pursuits, order the occasional fresh batch of wands of cure poison.

People seem to think that the purpose of crafting is to have some advantage at the high level end and completely disregard the area where you find the bulk of the crafting.

In my opinion, for a good economy you need a good spread of non-durable, non-droppable craftables across all types of crafts, focussed on low to mid level, which provide a definite advantage in adventuring in some manner.

[lonnarin]

In my opinion, for a good economy you need a good spread of non-durable, non-droppable craftables across all types of crafts, focussed on low to mid level, which provide a definite advantage in adventuring in some manner.

Definitely agreed there.  The problm right now balancewise between the loot dropped vs the difficulty of the CNR guardian spawns vs. the time investment required for crafting is that people usually find the items they need on monsters far sooner than they could feasibly craft a similarly powerful item.  By the time you can mine iron, you already find an iron weapon or armor, by the time you want adamantium, somebody already found it and sells it to you for 10k because they're so abundant.  And if you're a crafters, it is indeed nice to be able to have equipment on a 2 hours notice or so in the time it takes to gather the CNR, but most folks already have a few backups from the drops.  Heck, sooner than the time it takes to find adamantium to mine, one can go get an acid orcaxe or adamantium weapon dropped.  Back before we  added all these extra sandpapers and threads, it was already a chore to make these items.  Now every tailor needs to be a spiderfighter, as well as a hunter.  *sighs*  and not all spider spawns have webs, despite the plentiful webbing they do to you in combat.

Could I please, if I fail my reflex save, just scrape the more-valuable-than-gold silk webbing off my armor?  Dwarves shouldn't be cursing when they're webbed, they should be shouting for joy and begging the party members to peel it off slowly and carefully, so he can make a bowstring for it!