Evil amoung us

[Zen]

Garnet Stonesmythhy is tired of seeing all the young mages with HELL HOUNDS.

We cannot start as evil so why does a 1st level mage get to have evil as a famillier? I don't think they should have any of the evil-hellspawn as their pets.
I understand the oversite but if this was done intensionally then how is a LG player trying to gain the favor of his LG god to act?

[LoganGrimnar]

demand he dismiss it, and when he says no, becouse he will likly say no being there is no way you can make him. Simply walk away, not the Vorax way of things, but there is nothing else you CAN do withen your alignment.

[Rayenoir]

You don't have to have a familiar the same alignment as you are.  Technically, by PnP rules, you can have a familiar up to one step away on the moral and ethical axes on the alignment chart.  So for example, a True Neutral wizard/sorcerer can have an LE, NE, or CE familiar.

If we want to be technical, Yardislan shouldn't have a CG familiar, as he is LG (two steps away on the ethical axis).  But this is NWN, not PnP.

Perhaps some people are using their evil familiars to slide their characters away from the good alignment they began with, as a tool for development.

And technically, you *can* do something as a follower of Vorax.  Challenge them to meet you in the Fort Velensk arena.  Stipulate that if you win, they have to dismiss their familiar, and if they win, then clearly Vorax disagrees with you on this instance.  *shrug*

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

Or perhaps it's the fact that thier familiar isn't being treated, in-game, as a Hell Hound? MerlinDog, for example, I believe is being RPed as being simply a dog.

[Nook]

I understand how alignment works.  I also understand how pets work.  I don't think animals can be evil unless raised that way.  Most dogs were different kinds of wolves that would tear out your throat as look at you, but after many generations of being tamed & trained, they are now our loyal pets.
"A dog doesn't care if its master is good or evil, just as long as its master loves it."  I think that works both ways as well.  If you take a naturally "evil" creature and put it with a good owner/master, the weaker of the wills would conform to the stronger (usually "evil" starts acting good...usually).
Anyway, that's my 2 cents worth.

[Dorganath]

Familiars are not pets.

Hell hounds are not "dogs".

[Nook]

Familiars: (n) An attendant spirit, often taking animal form. i.e. Hell Hound--the spirit of a hound...a pet.  
While most think of pets as just, well, a pet; I have taken all of my pets and considered them to be part of my family.  Just 'cause I use the term "pet" doesn't mean they are just there to be fed & cleaned up after.  They are a living part of your family; I use the term "pets" 'cause they are animals and since they travel with a huminoid companion, one would most likely call them a pet.  I use it as a general refference term.

Hell hounds--hound:(n) 1: any of several breeds of dog used for hunting typically having large drooping ears  i.e. Hell *hound*

Sorry for the misunderstanding, next time I will make sure I spell out everything**If you take a naturally "evil" creature and put it with a good owner/master, the weaker of the wills would conform to the stronger (usually "evil" starts acting good...usually). **

Anyway, hell hounds are nice and all, but my pref. would be a psuedodragon as a familiar.

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

Just a wee bit of advice, Nook. Don't split hairs. It'll get you ground into dust.

I'll help. *Rummages for his gem crafter's chisel.*

Anyhow... THIS is a Hell Hound. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/hellHound.htm Click the eye to see a picture. They are LE Outsiders, and are NOT hounds in any sense of the word except that that's the closest thing that fits. It's like saying a mephit is a chimp with wings.

The original idea behind this thread was to talk about the difference in alignment between casters and thier familiars. Many casters have a familiar that may not be appropriate for RP, because it is statistically the stronger. This isn't that good a thing AT ALL, but it happens, and we deal with it. Preferably, we get different familiars.

Any other questions, comments, or nit-picking, argumentative tedium?

[darkstorme]

*applause*  Well done, SZ.  Also, with an INT of 6, Hell Hounds wouldn't be as malleable as normal dogs even if they WEREN'T fiends.

[Nook]

Alright, let me start by saying...I'M SORRY...last night I had my a**h**e filter in my head turned off and that slipped out.  I have a bad habbit of that when I try to make a point.  Once again, after having a night and a day to think back about what I posted, I am sorry; I truely didn't mean for it to sound like it did.

Here's my thing (and please, understand this is the way me and other of those I know always played it):

As I understand, this dog was given as a gift.  On very reasonable grounds, this makes the dog a pet, a very loyal pet.  While it is possible for destiny to allow the familiar to be given in this way, it usually does not happen.
 
When someone in our group wanted a familiar, they would do their magic or prayer and the answer to it would instruct them on where to go, what to do, and how to recognize their familiar.  A quest was a must.  You all know the routine, "You must fast in the desert for 10 days," yada, yada, yada.

That was actually the point I was trying to get across.  A pet is bought or given, and while loyal to the end, is still a pet.  A familiar knows when you're in trouble & will help any way they can (finding you a water source, hunting food for you, etc.)  And while normal pets could do this, the amount of training would be maddening.  Pets tend to do things they think you want them to do, while familiars know your needs 'cause of that psycic link thing the old DM's books talk about.

But (yes, this last thing), This isn't the normal D&D world, and the mechanics would and should work differently.  As I said, it is the GM(s) final word that is law.

 

Oh, he..kind'a looks...like a...dog thing...On a somewhat RP alignemt, and I guess, sadder note; If evil characters aren't allowed in the game, then their pets/familiars/animal friends shouldn't be allowed to be evil either.  It goes against the rules somewhat.  But also, like I said in my a-ho*e posting, if the animal is raised by a good character, couldn't it's alignment change over time as well?

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

Remember the one-step alignment rule... That we seem to be able to stretch to two-step.