New rule suggestion regarding pack animals/horses

[Witch Hunter]

Alright, it's getting REALLLLLLLLY annoying to walk into town and suddenly stutter for 2 minutes while the game loads 40 pack oxes and 20 horses... seriously - what IC reason would there be to leave them in town?

They smell, they leave waste, they make noise and so forth so forth... any decent guard would drive them out of town.

I'm suggesting a law againts leaving them in town, and if not upheld one could be taxed or go as far as lose his Ox/Horse.

Make a stable area for them to be kept in - not every player wants to experince ox lag and not every character wants to experince the lovely smell.

[Dorganath]

Broegar has such a law. I'm sure he'd be more than pleased to help enforce it in other cities....

[Drizzlin]

Witch Hunter - 3/1/2007  8:31 PM

Alright, it's getting REALLLLLLLLY annoying to walk into town and suddenly stutter for 2 minutes while the game loads 40 pack oxes and 20 horses... seriously - what IC reason would there be to leave them in town?

They smell, they leave waste, they make noise and so forth so forth... any decent guard would drive them out of town.

I'm suggesting a law againts leaving them in town, and if not upheld one could be taxed or go as far as lose his Ox/Horse.

Make a stable area for them to be kept in - not every player wants to experince ox lag and not every character wants to experince the lovely smell.

I remember when Joan was fresh out of furs, and none of the young hlint folk were willing to help him gather the usual ones he needs. He was running short on supplies and looked up to see 200 ox standing in the hlint crafting hall...

That was funny. Maybe it is time it happened again!

[Witch Hunter]

Wage war on the Oxen race!

[osxmallard]

You know that'd be just wonderful... if there was somewhere safe to keep them besides in your private residence.

I'd complain if they were in the craft hall or other public building.  Outside?  I don't feel there is any reason to complain.  Lag?  Then instead revise your post to get rid of oxen entirely.

Care to wager on how long it takes the Oxen outside Hempstead to be wiped out by a PC bringing (insert monster here) back towards town with them?

[Ravemore]

Yeah.. It would probably be better to have the ox pen put inside an out of the way corner in town..... I'm not leaving my ox in that death trap currently outside the city gates, and that is probably why everyone else has theirs in the town proper. A barn would be even better, no ox lag if you get close to it.

[Witch Hunter]

Osxmallard, you have any idea how bad an Oxen smells?... now imaginey ou walk into some main street in Honolulu and suddenly the foul stench of oxen farts penetrate your nose.... It's not nice.

[minerva]

Hmmm... 1413... not 2013... sorry but horses, oxen and even live chickens and ducks were common place in the streets and markerts of cities, towns and hamlets... Smell.. well people didn't notice too much because they only tended to bathe themselves once a week...if necessary.  

I agree with the lag stutter of the horses , oxen not so much and there should possibly be a livery added to the cities for this purpose and  for the safety of the critters for when someone gets  a monster past the city gate guards.

[twidget658]

15th Century England...

Sanitation was a always a major concern. Open drain channels ran along the sides or down the center of the streets. Many stables opened out onto the streets. Filth and guck was always in the path of the citizens. People often threw dirty water out of windows in the general direction of the drains. Dyers vats were particularly noxious when they were emptied into the street. Homeowners were supposed to keep the space in front of their house somewhat clean. The only real incentive to do so was an outbreak of the plague.

Livestock were always in the streets. Merchant guilds and crafter guilds were growing and becoming a large part and influence on the government. It was common place to have ox and asses with loaded packs near merchant stands. If the merchant had stands and not selling from the packs themselves.

Horses was the the main means of transportation. Horse hitches where all over the towns and cities. Maybe we could add some hitches in front of the inns and taverns. Wagons never skirted the towns. Nor did they really care where they parked.

Pigs were another nuisance in the streets. Most people kept pigs. They were cheap, and a good source of food. However, houses were small and gardens even smaller, so pigs were often let out into the streets to forage. Stray pigs were such a nuisance that they were liable to be killed and the owner charged for the return of the dead animal.

It would actually be OOC to NOT leave them in town.

[Witch Hunter]

But that's the real world :O

I find it hard to believe that a society with Elves in it would appreciate bad smell :p

But again, the main reason I'm suggesting this is due to lag, which is bad when you have 2 horses and 6 oxes infront of you.

[DiegoBastet]

People, let's always remember that the D&D, and by that, Layo world, is a world based on the real world, not some kind of replica. People in D&D, and layo to it, eat better, bath better, live better than the people of our world. Ok, it's the dark age of layo, but still, people don't need to eat rotten food, don't need to worry if their children are going to survive the winter, and they don't consider themselves doomed with they make a cut on their legs while working, fearing a deadly infection. Things are a little better, and the smell too. The lag is a problem with 8 ox in the public crafting house, and an ox inside is strange, but the 20 ox outside would make a pretty, pretty bad smell.

[minerva]

DiegoBastet - 3/2/2007 People in D&D, and layo to it, eat better, bath better, live better than the people of our world. Ok, it's the dark age of layo, but still, people don't need to eat rotten food, don't need to worry if their children are going to survive the winter, and they don't consider themselves doomed with they make a cut on their legs while working, fearing a deadly infection.

 Actually - They do. In the Dark Ages of Layonara MILLIONS die ofstarvation and disease as well as the chaos caused by the darkening of the skies.The writing team keepstrying to get thispoint across.
  Perception is relavent to the perceiver. As someonewho spent most of her life routinely walkinginto buildings andareas with upwards ofdozens to hundreds of livestock present I actually like the smell of stables and barns.
  Thereare likey dozens of people employed by either the city council or other merchants to keep the streets clean of manure. Manure that was likely sold to crofters outside the city as fertilizer. If the elves didn't like it, send them back to the treesand let them walk in bear scat.

[Witch Hunter]

this is still more of a lag issue...

[Leanthar]

This didn't work in Hlint...What makes you think it will work anywhere else?

We had a barn and it was rarely used (and I mean rarely). We had stables at one point and they were never used and we ripped them out. Players (most) do not care and there is no way for us to enforce this stuff. Players find inconvienet to travel an extra 15-30 seconds in order to aid/assist other players (help with lag) and they don't do it (for the most part).

So yeah...not much we can do here folks. We have tried on multiple occasions. The other option is to rip out the oxen system entirely.

Players need to be responsible for their own actions, sadly many are not--but there is little we can do but go in and and police things (wasting yet more of our time on our already full schedule--beyond full I might add).

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

Aye; the only thing that can really be done is for the players to police themselves.
And with the amount of lag horses cause... Policing oneself is important. That's why I've not bought one yet.

[Hellblazer]

Leanthar - 3/2/2007  8:56 AM  This didn't work in Hlint...What makes you think it will work anywhere else?  We had a barn and it was rarely used (and I mean rarely). We had stables at one point and they were never used and we ripped them out. Players (most) do not care and there is no way for us to enforce this stuff. Players find inconvienet to travel an extra 15-30 seconds in order to aid/assist other players (help with lag) and they don't do it (for the most part).  So yeah...not much we can do here folks. We have tried on multiple occasions. The other option is to rip out the oxen system entirely.  Players need to be responsible for their own actions, sadly many are not--but there is little we can do but go in and and police things (wasting yet more of our time on our already full schedule--beyond full I might add).

 Actualy I remember why I never left my ox (rain in teh barn in east hlint) because it was filled with ox and it could take me a while to figure out which one was mine. That was a few months ago and after a while i forgot about it. So when lex bought his ox I brought it to the barn again, it was late, almost no one was there, i left him there, went out and logged out. A few days after when I needed something on it i went back and saw at least 10 oxs in the barn.
  The barn was very much used by people.

[DiegoBastet]

Rideable horses... There will e different rideabe creatures, say, like dire wolves for druids or something like that? *asking too much but hop is the last who dies, and the first who kills...*

[Jilseponie Wyndon]

I believe Witch Hunters original claim is more or less based on the number of oxen currently in town and the main reason for that could be that since many of the players are not sure how things are outside the city gates or how things will set up craftwise, they are leaving thier oxen inside until they get a feel for the layout of the local areas.

I myself have so far only been on long enough for 2 quests so yes, my ox is still in the city.  I have travelled to my home and found the way safe, so when I get on next I will retrieve my ox from Port Hempstead.

So with a newly tweaked system filled with uncertainies around each corner, it should not take too long for the issue to iron itself out.  Everyone has basically been uprooted and are trying to learn thier way around again.  We should all be patient and considerate of the system.  And its not just oxen out there causing lag also ... even before the change when folks logged in, lag spikes were still felt from those with overloaded inventories.  So in this new age of Layonara we should police ourselves a little more and be considerate of others.

Just my 2 true ...

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

Actually, we've discussed this quite  a bit in the past, and the thing is that we don't have the models in-game for the alternate mounts.

[Leanthar]

"....Actualy I remember why I never left my ox (rain in teh barn in east hlint) because it was filled with ox and it could take me a while to figure out which one was mine. That was a few months ago and after a while i forgot about it. So when lex bought his ox I brought it to the barn again, it was late, almost no one was there, i left him there, went out and logged out. A few days after when I needed something on it i went back and saw at least 10 oxs in the barn.

The barn was very much used by people....."

Noted. I did not realize it was that used. Good to hear. Since it was indeed used we will do something like this for the two starting towns. Thanks for the feedback.