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Author Topic: Poison Dex check  (Read 227 times)

miltonyorkcastle

Poison Dex check
« on: July 29, 2008, 03:02:48 pm »
Yeah, so, this is probably too little, too late, but here goes anyhow.

Why is the dex check to apply poison so high? I mean, you don't want to poison yourself, but most poisons you put on a weapon won't hurt you if you get it on your skin. The poison has to enter the bloodstream for it to have an effect, hence why it's put on a weapon. Moreover, couldn't you apply the posion to the weapon even if you spilled some of it on yourself? Or is that actually how it works, that the poison is applied, it's just a dex check to see if you poison yourself in the process? (I've never really tried it, though others have tried to explain it to me.... I have some poison, maybe I should give it a shot)

Or am I am entering this discussion so late that the point is moot?
 

Stug3

Re: Poison Dex check
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2008, 03:51:31 pm »
Never thought that poisoning myself might be the reason for the Dex check. I know you don't get poisoned if you fail; Volga can make any poisons out there but has only so far successfully poisoned his ax once...go figure. :\
 

darkstorme

Re: Poison Dex check
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2008, 03:52:48 pm »
It's twofold, according to Bioware's docs on the process.

First, it's not actually that easy to apply a more-liquid poison to a blade.  If it's inclined to drip, rather than smear, it's hard to make sure it stays in a place where it'll get inserted into your target's body.

Second, many, many poisons that you'd apply to a weapon are toxic on skin contact as well (hydrogen cyanide, brevetoxins, and a host of organophosphates, to name a few).  So part of the trick is getting the poison to stay on the weapon without getting any on yourself.

Justification for the combined roll (succeed, weapon is poisoned, fail, you've poisoned yourself) is easy; if you don't poison yourself, and you're careful with dosage, you can keep trying until you've got your weapon satisfactorily coated.  If, however, you slip... well, you've got bigger problems than the rest of your poison losing its efficacy.

Edit: The fact that gas traps use atomized poisons as their payload also suggests that the various craftable poisons, in-game, are multi-vector.
 

miltonyorkcastle

Re: Poison Dex check
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2008, 04:42:04 pm »
... why would you waste time messing with a liquid poison (since there are paste poisons) that won't work after drying on a weapon? Why would someone (bioware?) assume that you would use a weapon to administer a (still/not-dried) liquid poison? That's.... retarded....

If you want to apply a liquid poison to a weapon, you baste it on (with a brush- so again, why the dex check?), then let it dry. If the poison loses its efficacy after drying, that's not the sort of poison you'd use on a weapon. It's something you'd add to a drink or put in food. Moreover, once the poison has dried on a weapon, it's good until rubbed off from use or weathered off by time. Of course, this issue was already addressed by Eight-bit (in the duration thread) when he said it should be like an enchantment that goes away after a hit. And since that's a non-trivial code fix.... yeah... my guess is it ain't happening.

And the dex check seems to assume you care about getting poisoned. What if it didn't bother you to poison yourself (as I mentioned in my first post)? Why a dex check?

Anyhow, if it's Bio code, I guess that's not changing. But if we could change it, I'd say get rid of a dex check altogether, and consider Eight-bit's advice in the duration thread.
 

osxmallard

Re: Poison Dex check
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2008, 04:57:52 pm »
Yeah, it is a ridiculously high check... I have a char with a dex of 30 most of the time and fail applying any sort of poison.  Not that she should use poisons being NG in the first place.
 

Stug3

Re: Poison Dex check
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2008, 05:04:11 pm »
It does seem kind of silly that a char that can make poison (Volga is 17th lvl) and knows how to handle it well enough to make it can't properly apply it to a weapon.
 

Dezza

Re: Poison Dex check
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2008, 02:24:11 am »
Personally having played an assasin on layo, the only redeeming feature of the class is the fact that I can use the poison I make with no chance of failure in application.

Its the one thing that sets an assasin aside from an ordinary rogue as far as I am concerned. So, rogues spend their time in larceny and skullduggery but not specifically learning to master the use of poison. Creation of poisons is not really a terribly difficult task but the care and application of such is highly specialised, hence here is where the assasin comes in. A Rogue class that has spent time and care developing the skills required to not only make but to work specifically with poisons.

If ordinary rogue classes, or any class for that matter had a good chance of using poison then I might as well kiss my character goodbye because its the only thing in my mind (apart from RP reasons) that gives you any incentive to make one!
 

Eight-Bit

Re: Poison Dex check
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2008, 01:04:22 pm »
Quote from: Dezza
Personally having played an assasin on layo, the only redeeming feature of the class is the fact that I can use the poison I make with no chance of failure in application.

Its the one thing that sets an assasin aside from an ordinary rogue as far as I am concerned. So, rogues spend their time in larceny and skullduggery but not specifically learning to master the use of poison. Creation of poisons is not really a terribly difficult task but the care and application of such is highly specialised, hence here is where the assasin comes in. A Rogue class that has spent time and care developing the skills required to not only make but to work specifically with poisons.

If ordinary rogue classes, or any class for that matter had a good chance of using poison then I might as well kiss my character goodbye because its the only thing in my mind (apart from RP reasons) that gives you any incentive to make one!


Except for the impressive ability to paralyze your targets with Death Attack. Obviously it takes time to develop, and the expense of carrying intelligence boosting items can be substantial, but it is a very useful ability.
 

Dezza

Re: Poison Dex check
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2008, 09:13:09 pm »
Quote from: Eight-Bit
Except for the impressive ability to paralyze your targets with Death Attack. Obviously it takes time to develop, and the expense of carrying intelligence boosting items can be substantial, but it is a very useful ability.


Thats nice...but..when you consider how far the fort saves of most of the creatures on layo have been boosted....meh....not much help!