Epic Reputation as a WLDQ reward

[ShiffDrgnhrt]

Kinda an idea spawned during a discussion on IRC, but I was think...

Most, if not all, of the Characters that manage to pull of a WLDQ and become a world leader do something worthy of notice by many people (be they NPCs or Players).  If someone where to say, destroy the gnoll infestation of Haven mines, or free the seas of slaver-ships (for a significant amount of time), would they not earn an "Epic" reputation with those directly affected by what said WL did?  I would think freeing the Haven mines of monsters so the Workers could safely access the mines would be worthy of serious recognition, as would saving people from the horrible fate of slavery by destroying the slave trade.

So I am wondering if the Feat Epic Reputation is a worthy reward for a Character that manages to become a World Leader.

Any thoughts?

[Dorganath]

If you're asking if they can receive a "free" feat as a reward, the answer is most likely "no" simply from a mechanical standpoint.  If we edited a character to have extra feats, that would make the character illegal according to Bioware's math and make the character unplayable.  A WL character can of course take the feat at a normal feat level, but then so can every other non-WL epic-level character.

Applying the feat to an item as a reward might be possible (I can't check at the moment), but that item would have to remain equipped.

[LynnJuniper]

Didn't Xiao Recieve a feat as a WL reward?

Then again, we see all the types of problems that would cause in differenciating WL from non WL

[jrizz]

As a GM I treat WLs very different from non-WL epics. We have a bunch of epics that got there very fast and by "hunting" 90% of their play times off in the outer reaches and deep caves of the world. They may be powerful but that does not mean they are known or even deserving of respect. WLs have made impacts on the world that are known, recored, sung about, told word of mouth. And on my quests when they step up and speak people will listen.  Then there are PCs like Wren who has killed 10,000 giants to gain in experience. He should not command the same respect or deserve the same respect as a WL. There are some exceptions to this but very very few. There are PCs that have been around in the world for a long time, they have been guides, teachers, storytellers, and merchants. They have been active in the world for a very long time, 2 plus years RL. These non-WL epics will under the right circumstances be known and respected. I dont think a feat needs to be used for this in a well run world as a matter of fact Epic Reputation feat would mean nothing on one of my quests. I know who the PCs are that have done things worthy of a epic rep.

[Tobias]

Didn't Xiao Recieve a feat as a WL reward?

Then again, we see all the types of problems that would cause in differenciating WL from non WL

I believe he did receive a feat as a reward but it caused alot of problems for other monks  that went epic after him. I think (can't spell his name)  Ael had a problem with this and maybe Jennara as well.  I think it was something to do with a Great Wisdom, but it has been a while.

[Xirion]

I think the idea (besides the math) is great, because it is just logical that someone who finished a WLQ is moreknown than other non-WL PC's. I can not say anything about the mechanics but the idea sounds logical to me. Anyway, if it causes too much trouble...
If not it would be nice to make it an WL-only feat maybe...

[Shadowblade225]

Great post jrizz.  

Only issue with epic reputation and WL's is that there are a few WL's where the attribute wouldn't be so applicable as their deeds are known to only a select few despite the impact factor.  Certainly not a bad idea though.  May even be applicable to all depending upon what you take the feat to really mean.  I was going to take that feat for my character once I finally level (which has been like 5/6 months or so...ugh).

[Dorganath]

Yes, Xiao did effectively receive a feat for his ECDQ reward, though in truth it was a work-around and as has been pointed out, it has caused issues for every monk that has followed.  At the time, Xiao was the only monk character who was even in remote danger of passing that Epic threshold.

At any rate, the process of applying this was non-trivial, and to do the adding of a feat "right" for future uses would also be non-trivial.

jrizz's comments are pretty good to take into account though.  Epic Reputation adds some bonuses to mechanical systems, but the impact they have on the game in general would be considered minimal. When NWN was built, those things went into checks for conversations, opening up different conversation arcs that someone who didn't have points in Bluff, Intimidate, Persuade or Taunt might find useful. Mechanically speaking, in Layonara, the benefit is not nearly as great.  In terms of quest use, in my opinion, anyone who has passed their WL by default has an "epic reputation," so such things would be taken into account in the RP of any quest that I would run. Granted, I don't run many these days, but the concept still stands.

Keep in mind too that in an RP setting, one's "epic reputation" can just as easily work against a character.

[Shadowblade225]

For epic reputation - about it not mattering so much with respect to WL's is that there are some DMs that will still ask for these skill rolls on a quest.  I don't know if they factor in a "WL impact factor", which I doubt. So it does matter and the feat can still make a difference.  Though honestly, I wish it didn't.  

I suppose though that it all depends upon the NPCs that you're interacting with.  I can't answer if an NPC such as a sailor in some far off place would know whom a WL Toranite would be and how a positive or negative reaction (toward Toranites) would factor into the NPCs counter roll.  It can get complicated so the feat in my experience doesn't appear overly useless despite how the spirit of the world is catered.

I will say though, that while I diverge slightly, I do like the distinction between non-WL epics and WL-epics. There are a very select few non-WL epics that, to me at least...have the status that equates to WL and an "epic reputation" feat.  All these characters have been around for 1.5-2+ years.

As a character, I'm more inclined to listen to a reputable character and for me, reputation can only be gained through RL time of game play, not by level.  It sort of evens that uneven-game-play-time-between-players issue.