Monk Discussion

[ZeroVega]

I've always had a fascination of sorts with monks. Don't know why, just always thought they were neat. Anyway, I was talking to a couple people about it, and they seem to have slightly conflicting views. So I'd like to hear everyone elses take on the class of Monk... after I post mine of course.
  Well, we all know that monks channel Ki, right? Well I've heard some people say that it comes from within the monk, while others say it can also come from deities. I've heard quite a few people say that monks should really be... monks, from monasteries. However others seem to believe that a monk could be a someone with a profound connection to something (Ki, a deity, nature, a specific philosophy) who simply fights with his/her hands, or monk weapons.
  Well if I ever played a monk again, I'm not sure I'd want him to be a "monk" monk if you know what I mean. I'd prefer the reason to be a little bit more, original, a bit more complicated than that. Well, here's the question. Does that make sense or does it go against everything the Monk class is about? Can anyone really even define a class like that either?
  Signed: Mr. Confused

[Rotagon]

I have also always had a "special place in my heart" for monks.  My take on them is extremely "Eastern Philosophy" oriented.  Ki comes from within.  The monk is so in tune with himself - perfect mind, perfect body.  The religious aspect comes from the ideals and ideas of Bhuddist monks and such.  This can, with RP and back ground story, be translated into diety worship in the world of Layonara relatively easily in my mind.

[Chrys Ellis]

There are certainly many ways to customize a particular class to suit your personal tastes.  However, some attributes are simply basic to the class.  No one would try to say that they are a cleric without a deity, for example.  I think whether or not a monk needs to train in a monastery is certainly up to personal choice, but the key thing that I feel has little room for manipulation is the fact that they DO TRAIN themselves. 
  The description of the monk class on the NWN site speaks of this in the final sentence of the paragraph:
  "The Monk training is so particular and rigorous that, once you leave the class and multiclass to another class, you cannot ever take up the Monk's path again." (Go here for the full description)
  The key for monks is that their abilities only increase as they train themselves to harness Ki in various ways.  This is not arcane in nature, nor is it divine.  If someone wants to play an unarmed warrior gifted with divine powers, they should look into the sacred fist class.  The monk's abilities are attained through discipline of the self. 
  Certainly, a monk can pray to a particular deity.  However, whether the belief is held that their God blesses them with certain abilities, they still must be attained through very strict training.  Many professional athletes thank God for their victories, but you certainly wouldn't see them skipping the gym or practice because they think God will simply give them the speed or strength they'll need in the big game.  
  I'm sure there are counter-arguments to some of what I've said, so I'll leave it at this for now, and see where this discussion goes.

[Gulnyr]

All of Chrys Ellis's comments are right with regard to a "standard" Monk, but I think there's room for imagination in any class.   There are two things that every Monk must have, though:  training, and a Code.

Training is essential for any and all Monks.  It's different than the training a Fighter might have.  Any gate guard is "trained," but a Monk's training is very deep and personal.  

A Code is essential for any and all Monks.  It's the reason all Monks are Lawful - they follow a Code.  It's important when developing a Monk concept that you develop or choose a Code to follow.  It's the backbone of the character.

If you want, Grasshopper, you can go right along with the fluff text and have your "ki" this and your "Kwai Chang Caine" that, and have a pretty groovy character.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with that approach.  That may not be your thing, and it just so happens that I have never found a credible statement by anyone anywhere that says imagination is a bad thing to bring to a D&D game.

Get yourself a good garden rake.  Now head out into the Pasture of the Classes and rake up some of that fluff that coats it.  Tuck it off to the side somewhere; it's good stuff and you might want it later.  Now consider the fertile frameworks of the character classes you've laid bare.  Ooo!  Look there!  Without that little bit of fluff in the way, you have a place to plant your own fluff seed.  Personalized fluff!  Make that pasture your own and you'll reap a bountiful harvest of unique characters.

Let me display Jennara.  She's a Monk by class, but not a monk.

Jennara trains.  She trained and she will train.  She had a bad experience when she was young, which made her very concerned with her safety and the safety of others.  So she learned how to defend herself.  She spent over a decade of studying nature by herself at the orphanage, then another seven years wandering Dregar alone before the Dragon called her. Always training.  Always learning.  She just recently mastered defensive fighting.  She's always looking for new insight into the patterns of nature, so she can incorporate those concepts into her movements and train until they are perfected.

Jennara follows a Code.  She is a Rofireinite:

You are a paragon of virtue and honor. Dedicate your life to justice, honor, and the pursuit of knowledge. Hold the law above all else at any cost, even if this means bringing loved ones or friends to justice. Extend honor to all, even your foes. Aid others whenever and wherever possible, as long as it is in accordance with the law and does not make way for acts of evil.

She has followed this Code almost as long as she can remember.  She feels that her life was saved by Rofirein, so her life belongs to Rofirein.  Her faith is the foundation of her concept.

Jennara has training and a Code, the two things every Monk must have.  

She doesn't have ki.  Not exactly, anyway.  Every Monk has a special "thing" that sets them apart.  In the case of the standard Monk, that thing is ki.  You can't really take that away from a Monk, but you can rename it and plant your own fluff seeds on it.  Jennara doesn't have ki; she has the blessing of Rofirein. Same thing with a different name, and it lets me explain certain Monk powers with some Rofireinite fluff.  Take Spell Resistance as an example: "The Lord Protector has wrapped me in His Golden Scales."  

Maybe that sounds like I've arbitrarily decided that Jennara is special enough to be granted a blessing.  Well yeah.  That's exactly what I did.  No doubt anyone playing a Cleric arbitrarily decided their character was special enough to be allowed to call on their god for blessings.  No doubt anyone playing a Monk arbitrarily decided their character was going to be spiritually powerful enough to shrug off spells. It's all arbitrary.  You choose your character concept, then you pick the classes that make it work.

That brings me to the Sacred Fist.  That's one possible path to building an unarmed combatant with a divine connection.  There are problems there in Jennara's case, though.  First, the character has to first be a divine spellcaster.  Jennara's concept does not include the ability to cast spells.  Rather than being able to call Rofirein for varied blessings, she is blessed with a fixed set of divine gifts.  Second, the text in the Handbook states that a Sacred Fist can never ever use any sort of weapon, and specifically states that includes any sort of held tool (like a needle).  Jennara was trained at the orphanage to be a seamstress.  Using a needle is part of her concept; she's a tailor.  Sacred Fist is completely outside her concept.

The Monk class is not as flexible as the Fighter or the Rogue, but there is plenty of wiggle room.  You can rename and re-explain several skills and powers without changing the underlying class, and come out with a character with a new flavor and new roleplaying opportunities.  The fluff text is not the be-all and end-all of a class.

By the way:

The Monk training is so particular and rigorous that, once you leave the class and multiclass to another class, you cannot ever take up the Monk's path again.

This is the in-character fluff for a game mechanic.  For balance reasons, Monks can't freely multiclass.  The rigorous training stuff is the in-character sheetrock that covers the 2x4 framework of the rule.

[Leanthar]

"...She doesn't have ki. Not exactly, anyway. Every Monk has a special "thing" that sets them apart. In the case of the standard Monk, that thing is ki. You can't really take that away from a Monk, but you can rename it and plant your own fluff seeds on it. Jennara doesn't have ki; she has the blessing of Rofirein. Same thing with a different name, and it lets me explain certain Monk powers with some Rofireinite fluff. Take Spell Resistance as an example: "The Lord Protector has wrapped me in His Golden Scales."..."
  Very well stated and good example.

[miltonyorkcastle]

".... Training and a Code...."

Both Chrys and Gulnyr stress training as a major components- part of the framework, as Gulnyr's calls it, of the class.  That's because what sets a monk apart from a typical fighter is control, perfect control.  Hence the code.  Hence the lawful alignment.  Monk training is all about self-reflection (also called meditation), that is, discovering one's self in its entirety, for, by knowing yourself, your strengths and weaknesses, you will know how to compensate for them, how to correct them, how to be in perfect control.  

All the abilities of a monk stem from a deeper control of him/herself.  Some call it channeling Ki (i.e. Chrys), some say they have been blessed by a diety with a gift of knowledge about themselves (i.e. Gulnyr), among other explanations, but in all cases, it is the being perfecting the knowledge and thus the control of him/herself.  A monk is so in tune with his/her body that he/she can control even the tiniest of cellular functions.  Hence the eventual immunities to poison and disease, spell resistance, etc.  

A monk's self-control is in all aspects:  the body, mind, and spirit.  The most powerful monks are so in tune with themselves- their own body, mind, and spirit- that they can fake their own death for extended periods of time.

So, no matter what background the monk is from, whether a monastic order, a church, or the ranks of the military, they are 'monks' because they have undergone a period of self-discovery that requires an intense focus and a lawful, dutiful, regiment of meditation and training to come in complete control of his/her body.

To me, that is a Monk.

[Victor]

I agree with Gulnyr. Every "monk" has the potential to be different, not just a carbon copy product of a stagnant monastery.  Victor Firefall is a blacksmith and a follower of Dorand.  The destruction of his village resulted in an oath to find his family and avenge such attrocities.  From this background comes his determination to craft his body into a weapon and his deference to skilled technique over mere force.  Victor's abilities are the product of discipline and dedication.  He finds his inspiration at the forge, but if people call Victor a monk, it is only because they lack a better name for his vocation.  The character satifies the requirements of Code and Training, though Victor often finds himself conflicted trying to reconcile the two.

The monk seems different from priestly clerics in a key way.  While they may or may not be divinely inspired, a monk's strength is internal and therefore less suitable than spells for ministering to others.  This is not to say that a devout monk isn't possible, it only effects how they put their talents to work for their deity and church.