PrC question/Idea

[ZeroVega]

Ok.......I play a ranger. I do a lot of melee but right now I can't really contribute in that way so I'm going with a bow. I know several other bow using rangers (and even some druids which surprised me) and I'd like to know.
  Will there/can there be a sort of Arcane Archer for divine spell casters. Everyone knows that most of the full-time archers on layonara are rangers. (By full time I mean the classes who spend 3-4 feats on bows. Example: Rapid Shot, Point Blank, and weapon focus.) Anyway, Rangers can cast divine spells not arcane which is needed for Arcane Archer. It really stinks to have to take 5 levels of Ranger 5 of Bard, Wiz, or Sorc, then take the rest in AA. And to think that if you don't do that you have to go all Bard/AA, Wiz/AA, or Sorc/AA stinks even more. What about those classes that can't cast arcane spells, and those characters who don't/can't learn arcane magic for RP reasons. I think I divine archer or something like that would be nice.
  I also understand the other aspect of it, that it could be used for Powergaming. And becaue of that you could put some high restrictions on it. Ability to cast 3rd level Divine Spells would raise the bar for rangers. Also having Rapid Shot, Point Blank Shot, and Weapon Focus Long/Short bow, and base attack bonous of 11/6 or 12/7 would raise the bar for druids and clerics who already have feats to use. Paladins won't (for RP reasons) use bows. Doing this would keep Druids and Clerics from becoming one of these new classes till mid levels and because of the 3rd level spells requ, rangers wouldn't get to take this class for quite some time. I just thought it'd be neat to have another option open to my ranger than having to take 5 levels of an arcane spell casting class, or go a different direction.
  So post your thoughts and let's get the discussion going.

[Zizz Zelan]

You could argue that there's a half-step in that direction with the Zen Archery feat already. It seems like a reasonable idea to me...

[IDii]

Yeah zen archery helps.

Jasra is kinda a divine darttosser (or archer even with a bow sometimes). Heh. She has good wisdom with zen archery and uses cleric strength and some combat buffs to become pretty effective.

Druids can be good with zen archery too. Rangers usually have good dex.

Not sure if there's a divine version of the AA... don't think. It's not really necessary.

[trillex]

Most rangers would have a high dex score anyway, so it wouldn't be a good feat for them. Maybe for druids but that's it.

[Yosemite Sam]

But Halson, only Elves and Half-elves can be become Arcane Archers.

[ZeroVega]

Again a valid point. And it's just an idea. I just know that the only way you can get a bonous to your damage is with better arrows (which are almost not worth making when you go through so many) the rangers favored enemy feat, and the arcane archer arrow bonous it seems like the only way you can become a decent fighter before you can use a Mahogany Compound bow is to become an AA. Just a thought anyway. I didn't really think it'd get very far cause there are some very good arguments against it, just didn't want to go ahead with my plans for Hal before I checked to see if this could/will be made.

[GhostWhoWalks]

All ranged characters give up damage over safty. That's how a bow works. The arcane archer is possibly the most powerful PrC in P&P and NWN becasue it wipes that balance out and then some. A high level arcane archer can do more damage a round than most if not all fighters of equal level, and can do it with never taking a hit.
  If someone wants to play a cleric with a bow, I almost played a sniper of Ilsare a while back, you can use some spells to help your abilities. Divine might, divine favor, divine power, and so on. I'm fairly sure all of those will work with a bow. Between that and us allowing mighty +3 now... a ilsare cleric with a lowish dex that uses zen archery and has a good charisma should be able to do pretty amazing things with a bow. I've not sat down and done numbers, but I'm fairly sure it would be impressive.
  Given that, I don't think a divine version of the PrC is necessary from a number side, and from a RP side, the only thing I would ever see me adding would be a Ilsare PrC that focuses in the bow. But its nearly impossible to add bow feats to the game without massive scripting so not sure what I would do with it. I had plans at one point to add a PrC for every God, a small 5 level PrC that kinda extended the role of them. Kinda like a Specality priest. But the planing stage never got off the ground.
  Rangers with a bow will always be slightly less strong than a AA or possibly even a cleric with a bow. They have spells to help, rangers spells are fairly limited. I could possibly look into adding a cool ranger spell or something to increase bow power, like a round per level GMW for a bow that also does like... keen on the arrows or whatever. And call it Snipers Eye. But Enzo's a ranger, and I've seen him use a bow, and he's fairly capable of dishing out damage, so not sure even that is necessary.  It may always chance in the future though.

[Gilrod]

I finally choose the Zen Archery feat.  My cleric has natural 19 wisdom (20 with a belt of cunning).  This makes it +5 to hit already.  I could cast owl's wisdom to add another +2 and another +1-3 depending on the bow.  This makes for a +7 to +10 to hit.  It would be nice to have a Devine Archer class, but it might be a little unfair considering that if the enemy charges me, I'm already wearing fullplate and have a sword with flame blade ready.  How many archers can have excellent bonuses while wearing fullplate!

[ZeroVega]

Yep, pretty much figured all of those arguments were coming. All good ones too. I didn't think this idea would get far then again probably good it didn't. Zen Archery is a good feat, AA is a great class, and even rangers have the favored enemy feat so it balances out a little bit. Anyway thanks for commenting.
                                 ZV,

[Force_of_Will_]

I have had a lv 40 aa  well ranger/wiz/aa and they do massive damage

[Eight-Bit]

Actually, if I may toss this out in the open, just because Rangers have the bow for their class icon, it doesn't mean they're the best Archers. They're the most COMMON archer, but on average a Fighter/Wizard/Arcane Archer will do slightly better, simply because of the Fighter's access to a number of more feats. And the fact they can take Weapon Spec - Longbow/Shortbow for an additional +2 physical damage. Thats like having a Mighty +2 bow.

Wooo. Its a wonder what you think of at 2am while looking for your character application.

[IDii]

Heh, yeah. Fighters are in every way better archers than rangers are. Rangers just have a bow icon, heh.

3,5 it's a bit different but this is NWN.

if you want some hints about Archer Classes, i recently found a Archer base Class. You could call it a Fighter but with Focus on Bow. So he deals 2 More Damage with a Bow and gets some nice Feats with increasing lvls.

You can find the Download link at NWN Vault, there it is the PRC COnsortium Pack. Many PRCs from P&P included.

[steverimmer]

I always thought that rangers should have the option to discard their two handed weapon skills and instead take the bow skills that they can take in PnP but I suppose that would be impossible to do in NWN  Mind you talking about damage with a bow my Cleric/Rogue Buppi is not too bad when you factor in sneak attack although without sneak attack she's pretty pityful really

Somewhere in the reems of D&D books there is a type of bow, called the Strengthened Bow, which required a minimum of 16 STR. As STR at the level had the +1 dmg modifier. The shaft of the arrow was heavier than normal and the arrowhead was also slightly wider, even the string was thicker and bow was also of harder variety existing woods, probably oak. Another use of the strengthened bow, was that it could be used as a club once you ran out of arrows. Mind you, using a bow as aclub, not only did reduced damage, but you also had a chance of breaking your bow, as it was made specifically for the character and their strength.
Another bow, that did increased amount of damage, was the grand bow, which was introduced in Oriental Adventures, and re-introduced in the boxed set, Kara Tur. The grand bow, which was called Daikyu, used arrows of a slightly longer shaft, and as the bow was from 8 to 10 feet tall, most that did use it, had to lay down, and hold by their feet, to get the pull needed to launch one of the arrows. Thinking about it, if it ever hit, which I am sure it did, it was sure to skewer your opponent, no matter how much armor they were wearing.