Time for a change suggestion

[Guardian 452]

I am with you Dorg about the high level people (which I would say today Id consider "high 25 and up). A level 3, 6, 9, 11 etc has no business going to the deep or similar Challenge Rated areas with these people and expecting to survive, and earn "good" XP.

But in my example Raghnall was level 10 but because Gorm and his guild mates were so high above his level even the giants of the desert were not rewarding Ragh with anything more than 1xp. This is the area I think some adjustment can be made... so a lower level (or level appropriate to the mobs) character doesnt suffer such a penalty because the person who was on and willing to help them was so far above their level.
 
Now if a level 30 and up character would have said... Lets go kill things in the Great Forest.... which would mean HE kills them and I get nice little chunks of XP while I hide and try not to get in the way... that isnt right at all, and I would hope that everyone of us who plays here knows that already and isn't hoping for this to become an acceptable way to level up.

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[Dorganath]

So it's starting to sound like possibly the thing to consider is easing the so-called "penalty" for characters below the average party level, so that in reasonable situations, those characters get more of a boost...since they need it.  This would of course taper off as they got closer to average party level.  It is, afterall, the low-level experience that needs work, right?

And once more, with feeling....

The days of 1XP per kill are long gone.  Now you get the CR of the creature as the minimum. In your case of the desert giants on Dregar, that will typically mean 12-ish XP.  Still not super significant, but but better.  This change was made a couple years ago. This CR-based minimum applies regardless of level. Obviously, this scales upward with creature difficulty.

[Guardian 452]

Im sorry Dorg but this is not correct.. Raghnall was getting 1xp per desert giant, troll, etc. I wish I had taken a screenshot of it... I will be sure to do so on the next guild outing. Id even be glad to test this with Connor and Raghnall if you would like. or anyone else in the mid 30 levels grouped with Raghnall (level10)

[Dorganath]

OK, I had to look into this (partly because I didn't personally make that change), and it seems you are correct.

It apparently only applies when the creature CR is less than the character's level. I was not aware this was the case, but in retrospect, it makes perfect sense, knowing how high some of our creature CRs go. Granted, those are boss-type creatures, generally, but a triple-digit CR creature would really boost a low-level character.

I'll consider a modification to this as part of whatever else may come of this thread.

[ShiffDrgnhrt]

Just to throw my two cents in, I loved RPing my Weapon Masters teaching their students in the field, but with Shiff and Tyra now level 20+, it's hard to to get some one wanting to level to go kill stuff with their teacher when they get nothing out of it.

[miltonyorkcastle]

To make a quick comment on the "I don't want to invite him because he'll ruin the XP curve," I feel like that mentality mostly applies not to high level characters inviting low levels, but to low level parties inviting high level characters. I think this is what HB is getting at.

I love playing Steel. I really love playing him with new characters, new mercenaries, new potential converts to the church of the Dread- er... ahem... anyhow, what most often happens is that I'll bump into a group of low level character in Center, chat with them for a bit, and then when they get ready to go adventure, I find some excuse to wander away, because I know if I go with them, Steel will gimp their progression for the day, and some of them don't get to play that often.

You know what else I like to do? Disguise Steel and have him pretend to be someone or something else with characters that don't know him, such as pretending to be some robed, wandering wizard. Works great with new characters, and Steel gets to pretend to be a real mage, since his attack spells can actually hurt stuff in the low and mid-level CR range, heh. Plus, this really limits his power, keeping the whole affair challenging for the party. Except that OOC everyone knows he's way too high level, not only because of his HP, but because once he joined the party, no one got XP anymore, heh. Sometimes the poor sods will humor me for a bit, but deep down, I know they're glad to remove Steel from the party at the first chance.... though, perhaps that's because he's still working on his aim with fireball....

[Hellblazer]

To make a quick comment on the "I don't want to invite him because he'll ruin the XP curve," I feel like that mentality mostly applies not to high level characters inviting low levels, but to low level parties inviting high level characters. I think this is what HB is getting at.

I love playing Steel. I really love playing him with new characters, new mercenaries, new potential converts to the church of the Dread- er... ahem... anyhow, what most often happens is that I'll bump into a group of low level character in Center, chat with them for a bit, and then when they get ready to go adventure, I find some excuse to wander away, because I know if I go with them, Steel will gimp their progression for the day, and some of them don't get to play that often.

You know what else I like to do? Disguise Steel and have him pretend to be someone or something else with characters that don't know him, such as pretending to be some robed, wandering wizard. Works great with new characters, and Steel gets to pretend to be a real mage, since his attack spells can actually hurt stuff in the low and mid-level CR range, heh. Plus, this really limits his power, keeping the whole affair challenging for the party. Except that OOC everyone knows he's way too high level, not only because of his HP, but because once he joined the party, no one got XP anymore, heh. Sometimes the poor sods will humor me for a bit, but deep down, I know they're glad to remove Steel from the party at the first chance.... though, perhaps that's because he's still working on his aim with fireball....

That has also come up more than a few times in tells, well the "he's too high level he'll drain all the xp" thing.. not that I have any experience with Steel fireball .

[davidhoff]

It also has an affect say with a group of 30's trying to explore a cool-hi-level area, for example the Arcs.  The 30's might be having trouble getting xp at their level because they can't solo areas that bring them good xp.  So, they finally organize a group together to go someplace challenging.

Let's say a lvl 20 pops on and hears via tells or whatever what the 30's are up to.  The lvl 20 might be interested in joining but hesitant to ask because he/she doesn't want to hurt the 30's xp...so this stiffles a possilbe chance for rp and grouping-up.  The 30's would probably not have a problem letting the 20 come along (I for one would be fine with it because I enjoy group adventuring), but still, you can't escape that because of the xp-drain it does have the possibility of making things a bit unconfortable for both the 20 and the 30's.

I agree the more important side of things is letting Hi's go with Lo's and to not reduce the Lo's xp.  This allows those of us with higher level characters *blushes* to run with new characters and have fun and show them around without dinging the Lo's xp gain.  But since we're addressing the issue, I figured we could look at both sides of the coin.

[willhoff]

To make a quick comment on the "I don't want to invite him because he'll ruin the XP curve," I feel like that mentality mostly applies not to high level characters inviting low levels, but to low level parties inviting high level characters.

I concur with Milty, HB and Davidhoff on the above quote.  

I've actually never heard this comment:

 "I don't want to invite him because he'll ruin the XP curve,"

from anyone in game or in tells.  When I threw it out there as a possible comment I was originally thinking of it coming from the perspective of a low level char. considering in his mind whether to invite a high level char that was online.

The higher levels are already "high" so they dont need the experience as much as the lower levels who feel like their characters are stuck at level 7-9 which I remember being a daunting phase to get through.

As was said earlier, I think the main focus should be on altering the "so called xp pentalty" on lower level characters so they can travel with higher level characters and gain some reasonable xp in a lower level area or area appropriate for a lower level character.  Its a great way of facsilitating groupings with new players and established players to help them learn the world and retain the new players interest in the world.

[Link092]

if it makes ya'll feel better, I honestly don't care that I don't xp from a group, so long as everyone isn't purely there for the bash. Honestly, otherwise I don't go adventuring much at all.

[Frendh]

For reference, presently XP starts to be reduced when a player's level differs from the average party level by more than 4 levels. By the time the difference hits 12 levels from the average, XP is reduced to the minimum (which is the creature CR)

It was not a factor before. But now when I am aware of it, it is a factor. Sure, if the characters are present and we are talking about an outing invites will be extended. But now it is less likely I will go out of my way inviting people OOCly. The xp reason is a small factor. Generally I do not find it fun with imbalanced groups. Though nowadays any group is more fun than the alternative, since the alternative is going solo.

I would also like for the xp rewards to be tweaked. But mostly for anyone vs a lot higher CR creatures than themselves. For instance, when my sorcerer was low level I would sometimes alone or with a group of similarly leveled players slay something that was impossible CR for everyone and get like 0 (or 1?) xp reward. That I really dislike. Sorry, I do not recall exactly what monsters it were or what level I was at the time. I think I did not get any xp for soloing Balor Princes with my lvl 20 sorcerer.

I am more in line with Mixafix because generally I do not like being the significantly lower level character in a group, it is often really boring. And there are death tokens to be considered.  I do not mind the other way around as much though.

As you get more levels the level range in the group is going to matter less and less. But below level 20 I enjoy it most when everyone is within +2 levels or -5 levels from my character.

Letting people have a lot more characters than 6 would help I think.