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Author Topic: Time for a change suggestion  (Read 651 times)

Dezza

Time for a change suggestion
« on: August 11, 2012, 10:33:06 pm »
I know this comes around every now and then, but I was talking to another player online not long ago about this and clarifying some ideas and came away thinking strongly enough about it to post for it.


Now I am not sure if the xp limiting factors are set in bioware code or can be altered by us so all this might be a moot point but I think the time has come for us to seriously consider changing the xp system for parties of multiple levels. I know there are issues with spawns as well and maybe we just have to wear that for the time being until we see that people arent going to abuse it.


I think we are limiting and reducing the enjoyment of Layo for our existing players by having the fact that if a level 20 char travels with a group of level 5's the level 5 chars are penalised in terms of the xp gained.


Before I go any further let me preface this by saying I KNOW! people might abuse it and powerlevel the low characters...but...we penalise those people doing that rather than penalise EVERYONE.


Here are several reasons why I would like to see this restriction removed if it is at all physically possible to do so:

Firstly; A lot of the WL's or players with high level chars I have spoken to that have gradually dwindled often complained they couldnt find anyone their level to play with to go to places they could get xp and they felt bad travelling with lower levels because it spoils their FUN and chances to earn some xp. We all know how hard it is on layo to get xp at times so any chance you get is welcomed.

Secondly; High level chars have a lot to offer low level chars, think about the rich RP situations these times stimulate. But! the low level players need to be willing to forgo any xp earning situation and focus solely on the RP which is fine sometimes and at times when you might rp for an hour and then leave and find another group heading off to do something...but now you are lucky to log in and find one other person around.

Thirdly; Our server is becoming full of individuals who never interact. if I log in on west and there is one other player on who is level 5 and I am level 27 there is no real incentive whatsoever for me to try and find that person and interract with them unless I know them well. if I join them I ruin their chance to make some xp, if they join me it would only be for the chance of RP which might be fine every now and then but sometimes you just want to do something! This situation can never support that. So what happens, both players go their own ways and do their own thing and gradually come on less and less because there is noone their level to help each other out and eventually they disappear.

Fourthly; What do PC's at the top of their game do? what incentive is there for a level 40 player to join a group of level 10's? They might enjoy some Rp but both parties know the situation is untenable if they want to get some xp or do something so invariably the level 40 leaves as they dont want to spoil the L10's fun.

Fifthly; The server community and indeed the world has changed in the last 7 years, people dont have a lot of time anymore to sit in a clearing outside Hlint and RP for 5 hours, nor really are there enough people to sustain such a RP event. These are the realities of the time.

Sixthly; I firmly believe if we remove this restriction we will see Higher level PC's interacting more with lower levels, bringing more information, more RP into the game. Imagine Vrebel with a few young low level fighters relating his experience in battles across layonara. it would be much the same as Lances and Daniella's Toranite recruits program and its success. But even now Daniella and lance can take out their recruits to RP with them and teach them in the field but the reality is they get nothing out of it beyond an RP experience because they dont earn any xp. Which is not essential! But is nice from time to time!

Seventh; I know this is an RP world, I get that, but we need to realise that people like to make some XP at times too and with a community a fraction of what it once was and the loss of many high level chars who just cant face ruining other peoples fun this may be a good bandaid solution to bring back more interaction and more RP.

Guardian 452

Re: Time for a change suggestion
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2012, 11:06:27 pm »
A post that I wish I could "thank" more than once. Well written and valid points. I had such an experiene just the other day with Raghnall (lvl 10) our guild mates went harvesting ore on Dregar. Raghnall went along but was well lower than the other folks level thus he earned 1xp on every kill. I did not complain at the lack of xp once... but something more than 1 per kill would have nice.
i know why the current system is in place ...as you said to keep a low level from quickly gringding up in levels cause he runs with high level peeps. It may be time to reevaluate a rule like this given todays populace vs. yesteryears populace.
 

willhoff

Re: Time for a change suggestion
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2012, 11:36:33 pm »
I like the idea as well as it brings more characters together to rp which is the whole point of a group play server.  

Maybe there is a way to set the xp system so that the lower levels get their regular xp if their in a party of three or more characters with one or more high levels.  That would limit the duo's going out with their alts to "grind" xp as the rule seems to be in place for.
 

Dorganath

Re: Time for a change suggestion
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2012, 12:39:02 am »
Funny...because I was rolling something of this sort around in my head either last night or today.

But before I comment, and this is primarily directed at Dezza, being the OP in this case, can you clarify what you mean with more concrete examples?  Here's what I mean.

First off, yes, the default XP calculation kind of applies a bell curve to the XP a creature gives, which is based on its CR, I believe.  This means if you kill (or in a party that kills) a creature that whose CR is far away from your own level, your XP is greatly reduced. Likewise, there is a "sweet spot" where you get the greatest amount of XP from a particular creature. This is its default behavior.

For a long time, we all had to put up with the paltry 1 XP that high-levels get for helping low-levels clean up rats and low-end skeletons and things, while lower-level characters had to cope with 1 XP from essentially watching higher levels kill epic giants and trollocs and whatevers.  Relatively speaking, this the second half of this has only been a problem since we lifted the minimum level requirements for traveling to certain places.

So yes, it's a default behavior, and the math gets a little weirder when a character is in a party (meaning it's less deterministic), but that doesn't mean it can't be adjusted.  As example of this, rather than 1XP for kills, the minimum has been changed to the Hit Dice of the creature (either that or the CR, but I'm pretty sure it's HD, because CR can be deceptive).  So low-levels involved in killing a level 25 creature would get 25XP as a minimum rather than 1XP.

I'm also curious about this:
Quote from: willhoff
Maybe there is a way to set the xp system so that the lower levels get  their regular xp if their in a party of three or more characters with  one or more high levels.  That would limit the duo's going out with  their alts to "grind" xp as the rule seems to be in place for.


What do you consider the "regular XP" to be for a low-level character who in a party that kills a high-level monster?

Where I'm going with all this is that...yes, I understand your intent here, but the devil is definitely in the details, so I want to hear a little more about how you think this should be calculated.

For full disclosure, what I've been considering is a sliding multiplier for characters below a certain level when in a party. It's most beneficial to the lower levels and would taper off at some higher, pre-epic level. As a simpler option, I thought of not caring whether the character was partied or not.

I will also say that I would have a problem with giving, for example, a level 5 character the same XP as a level 35 character for some of the high-level kills that could happen.  

And....I do have an issue with calling this a "penalty".  It really isn't, nor is it meant to be.  It's meant to reflect the realistic challenge to the character.  In one case, you have a low level character who might not even be able to touch (literally) a creature killed by his higher-level party mates.  Should that character gain a relatively high level of experience for essentially just watching others?  On the flip side, does it make any sense for the high-level character to see a significant boost from killing sewer rats with a low-level character?  It's not really intended as a penalty. It's intended to keep XP rewards in line with appropriate challenges.

Anyway, as I've been replying to this, I've scanned the XP code and there are a lot of things we can to to tweak the XP rewards with the existing code, and of course we can add to/alter the code as well. This, at least, isn't the issue. The difficulty will be in coming up with something appropriate.

So, to make sure I understand what's being asked, it seems like there's two fronts here:

1) Give lower-level characters more XP when partied with higher-level characters (or perhaps partied at all?) and facing foes well above their challenge level.

2) Give higher-level characters more XP when partied with lower-level characters and when facing foes well below their challenge level.

Does this about cover it?

Let me know if I'm on the right path and what you are thinking for the "more" part of that.  Like I said, I was mulling something of this sort already, so let me hear your thoughts.
 

Dorganath

Re: Time for a change suggestion
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2012, 12:45:38 am »
Oh and...

Quote from: Dezza
Fourthly; What do PC's at the top of their game do? what incentive is there for a level 40 player to join a group of level 10's? They might enjoy some Rp but both parties know the situation is untenable if they want to get some xp or do something so invariably the level 40 leaves as they dont want to spoil the L10's fun.

Specifically on this, I'm not sure what the specific angle is. Obviously, a level 40 character isn't going to benefit mechanically from any adventuring, whether with level 10's or level 30's.  Are you referring instead to what the level 10's might receive? And are you assuming they're facing appropriate challenges for the level 10's or something more appropriate for the level 40? Or something in between?
 

Dezza

Re: Time for a change suggestion
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2012, 04:07:50 am »
Just to clarify my original intention and there are several points here that I had not considered previously so all good thoughts.

I had thought to enable higher levels to join lower level groups without affecting their xp gain from what they were doing. I figured any high level joining a low level group would expect not to get any xp but be happy to go along for the ride and rp with the group without ruining their fun.

I hadnt considered it might be the other way around either heh, that a low level might want to join a high level group. In this instance I think every quest we have ever been on is the same result, the low levels watch the high levels get big XP and they get next to nothing even though we all agree that even the lowliest squire can do the one point of damage to kill the big bad guy...:)


In considering the extra information is it possible to set up the xp system so that it ignores the fact if a pc is in a party or not and focuses solely on the pc level vs creature cr level? That way we can set a sliding scale that seems reasonable and it wouldnt matter who is in the party.


Eg... This way a level 10 in the Titanium mines with his level 30+ fellow Guild members is in a fight against the Cr 30 Dungeon Lizard (example only) and the creature is killed. The 10 v 30 result gives them a ratio or % of the available xp for the creature. Whereas the 30 v 30 of the others gives them the right xp for their level vs the cr rating?

Of course, if the situation went the other way. The level 30 joins a group of level 10's to kill the Red Light cr 11 goblins. The system again reads their level individually and sees that 10 v 11 = full xp available as the creature is equivalent to their level. The 30 v 11 count however means they get minimum xp as per the current system or 10% of original xp which is my suggestion too.


So the comparison table might look like this:

Variance to Mean(0) Creatures CR = mean:
-20.....-10  -9  -8  -7  -6  -5  -4  -3  -2  -1  0  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10.....20 etc (and all levels in between)

So if a creatures CR is 10 and the pc level is 5 the variance to mean is -5 thus it is full xp-25% whatever we decide the appropriate amount is, probably 5% per level variance +/-. If the creatures cr is 10 and the PC level is 15 it is still full xp-25%.

By the time the player is 10 levels away from the creature cr value they are getting full xp-50% and by level variance of 18ish onwards they get min of 10% of original xp.  Based on this system it wont matter if someone is more than 20 levels away from the creatures cr because by that point everyone gets the same 10% of full xp value anyway whether they are lower or higher.


You could also set a buffer so that the change in xp value only starts when a pc is 5 levels +/- the creatures cr value. That would mean the min 10% wont kick in till players are 23-25 levels from the creatures cr.


I hope I haven't confused everyone heh.
 

LordCove

Re: Time for a change suggestion
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2012, 05:01:36 am »
As a side for the non-partied xp gain factor -

something I think would allow new players/character's to ascend to a point where they can travel freely and explore area's without needing a group...
... until a certain point, at which needing a group would be necessary.

In summary -

Levels 1 - 10   - Easy
Levels 11 - 20  - Medium / Hard
Levels 21 - 30   - Bloody Hard!
Levels 30+ - Just the same



Just as an example.
 

drakogear

Re: Time for a change suggestion
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2012, 04:34:05 pm »
Hey, been a while since I've played and well... kinda missed playing Layo so thinking of returning... yeah I'm one of those low level players that left I suppose though not sure if I ever spent much time adventuring with higher levels... let alone adventuring with anyone much.

This idea intrigues me however and thinking in more of an rpish or rather master/apprentice type thing would say a low level or rather rookie adventure would stand to learn alot from higher levels or Professional adventurers in witch case rookies adventuring with professionals could lean by watching them fight powerful monsters.

Though putting this the other way around well... don't think someone could really learn or experience all that much when there doing something they've already done. By that I mean high levels adventuring with low levels in well... a low level area. Though... the rookie (low level) could still possibly benefit from the professionals knowledge and insight into things.

Sure all that probably sounds like power leveling but in a world that is  supposed to be more focused on role play would someones level being high or low make that much of a difference? well ok maybe it would but I would also say that not only would the rookie adventurers benefit from traveling with professionals but the professionals could benefit from teaching and training the rookies as it would later give them more experienced adventurers to travel with and perhaps even with both making new friends. Additionally, wouldn't the rookie learning from the professional and the professional training the rookie make or even add for more interesting role play?

Also think might give both low and high levels more incentive to interact with each other.

My idea here though is not to have high levels run around low level areas cause there with rookie adventurers but to take the rookies to where the more powerful monsters are and to let up on the xp penalty for the rookies traveling to said areas with the professionals. Not letting up completely mind you but but give them more then just one xp... preferably alot more given the high amounts of xp needed to even level. After all, gaining only 1-5 xp after watching the professional adventurers slay a group of monsters I kinda wander... was the rookie even paying attention? If so I'd say he would have learned alot more thus gaining more experiance though ofcourse not as much as he would have if he fought and slain the monster himself.

*gain new title* I'm the boy who killed a bear at the age of 10... with my bare hands. (:D thats from a game called Mabinogi.)
 

Dremora

Re: Time for a change suggestion
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2012, 06:25:40 pm »
I already see the words exploit, powergaming/levelling (as you already put), cheating on the way because that is essentially why there is an xp penalty. It prevents friends bringing lowbies along with their high chars, doing all the work and the lowbie essentially functions as a bot. You could say its for RP but with no GM there to ensure you are actually RPing training, explanations etc in detail. Its impossible to tell if its serving an RP purpose or a powergaming purpose.

That is why there is a small level range allowance so lower chars can mix with higher levels chars and this RP would still take place (depending on who commands a superior build ofc). Perhaps expanding the range a bit would be better than lowering xp penalties. It would encourage more interaction even if it makes some areas much easier to grind depending on whos online.. but tbh, the spider caverns see this done and frequently so, maybe its not that big a deal.
 

Hellblazer

Re: Time for a change suggestion
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2012, 06:33:38 pm »
Quote from: Dremora
I already see the words exploit, powergaming/levelling (as you already put), cheating on the way because that is essentially why there is an xp penalty. It prevents friends bringing lowbies along with their high chars, doing all the work and the lowbie essentially functions as a bot. You could say its for RP but with no GM there to ensure you are actually RPing training, explanations etc in detail. Its impossible to tell if its serving an RP purpose or a powergaming purpose.

That is why there is a small level range allowance so lower chars can mix with higher levels chars and this RP would still take place (depending on who commands a superior build ofc). Perhaps expanding the range a bit would be better than lowering xp penalties. It would encourage more interaction even if it makes some areas much easier to grind depending on whos online.. but tbh, the spider caverns see this done and frequently so, maybe its not that big a deal.


Beside the mechanical aspect of the xp system, there's no more rules about the level spread in parties. It's all handle mechanically speaking now with the cr of the monsters in a area, the difficulty, and the xp drain.

Dremora

Re: Time for a change suggestion
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2012, 06:37:30 pm »
Yeah though I think Drako wants the mechanics to be adapted about level ranges if possible, not rules?
 

mixafix

Re: Time for a change suggestion
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2012, 07:36:46 pm »
Some thoughts based on some suggestions here and elsewhere
 
 xp over a wider range must surely help but seems only a part solution in that the lower pcs cannot contribute much to what is a level based game - RP is good and well and may fit many situations but the ones mentioned suggest combat and there the lower levels just cannot thrive on passing the bandages long term. Even in GM games rolling their dice is almost a waste for the same reasons.
 
 Encouraging multiple characters with an aim of a smaller level range during play is going to make it possible to find one PC to fit when you log on and find someone else on of a different level/belief etc.
 
 So perhaps a wider solution rather than just an xp reward fix is appopriate.
 
 Relax the rule of six PCs
 
 Increase the rewards over a wider level range, as discussed
 
 Allow CDQ or other method to provide a player with a radical level upgrade where desired. IE if it is about RP and player A does not have the time to get to level 30 and we cant change the XP route for the server, maybe we can allow players to get to level 30 or whatever with say one PC after a certain RL time in game, regardless of actual play. (if he/she can RP a lvl 10 in a good manner - why not a lvl whatever...
 
 Hopefully this keeps people from turning to grind/leaving - when they realise their time will never permit progression etc and is another way of providing new areas to some players perhaps more usefully than having a big brother lead them around as a low lvl PC- in this scenario they would be able to hold their own and the chances of finding a firt for a group would increase.
 
 I think after all this time where many changes are impracticable due to resourcing or mechanics and numbers are short so as to prevent or make very difficult normal progession I would like to think we dont need every player to fight for every xp.
 
 Rewards for other activity could be stepped up (as was mooted elsewhere) or could contribute towards the right to take an acccelerated character to CDQ or whatever to gain a level boost. Indeed any number of constraints could be put in to safeguard such a system - but the idea is that players get the chance to have at least one pc boosted to operate at an area outside their expectations given their normal rate of play.
 
 If you can live with that concept I think the result could only enhance the chances of a better fit of players at any given time and encourage any who give up play for this reason.
 
 Clearly players would not have to go down this route, but opening up the chance would maybe improve retention/recruitment
 

willhoff

Re: Time for a change suggestion
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2012, 07:40:57 pm »
Quote
What do you consider the "regular XP" to be for a low-level character who in a party that kills a high-level monster?


"regular xp" was ambiguous so sorry bout that.  Regular xp can change depending on the circumstances...i.e. HD of creature, level range, party size...etc.

I like Dezza's idea of a sliding scale that looks to the HD of the creature vs. the HD of the character, without caculating party or level range of the party because it keeps the status quo for the xp of the char. for kills in his "zone" if you will:

A 35th level char. who normally gets 500xp for a trolloc (HD 30?) should still get 500xp no matter if he is with a level 12 character.

Similarly, a level 12 char. who normally gets 150xp for a red light goblin (HD 15?) should still get 150xp for said redlight goblin even if he is with a level 35 char.

The 12th lev char. with the 35 lev. char. who killed the trolloc should get "some reasonable xp".  How do we calculate that?  I think Dezza's sliding scale works well.  As well, the 35 lev. char. killing the red light goblin with the 12th would get "some reasonable xp" using Dezza's scale.

I think the main concern is that char. A who is high level doesn't get his xp reduced for a high level kill kill if he invites a char. B who is low level.  Alternatively, char. B who is low level does not get his xp reduced for a low level kill if he invites char. A who is high level.

This will prevent the "Oh I'd like to invite so and so but they'll kill our xp".  If you venture out into an area above your pay grade you shouldnt get the same xp as the higher ups I agree.
 

Dorganath

Re: Time for a change suggestion
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2012, 09:04:04 pm »
Quote from: willhoff
This will prevent the "Oh I'd like to invite so and so but they'll kill our xp".  If you venture out into an area above your pay grade you shouldnt get the same xp as the higher ups I agree.

Don't take this the wrong way (meaning, I'm not coming down on you), but is this truly a common thing? If so, it's a pretty terrible way to treat other players. Further, it seems absolutely wrong to "reward" this sort of mindset. There's been so much talk about the lower-level experience here, yet if higher-level characters are brushing off lower-level characters for a few more XP/kill, then that is a problem that this community needs to address among itself. How many new players and/or low-level characters have given up because no one could be bothered to take less XP for a short time to show someone around?

Yes, I understand people like XP and they like to advance, but why the rush and why throw other players under the bus in the chase of the Almighty XP?  We removed the restrictions on minimum levels for certain places and the level span between party members to encourage groups to go anywhere with anyone, not to have the community enforce their own sort of level-span restrictions to maximize their XP payoff.

I really hope I'm wrong on this.  

---- WARNING: Gaming story ahead ----

Call me idealistic, but one of my greatest memories of this place, yes from the early days, was an expedition being organized in Hlint to go mining in Dregar.  My only character at the time was in the single digit levels and a rather squishy Sorcerer with a couple fighter levels. I really knew few people, but I took a chance, spoke up and was given the nod to come along with a party that was averaging in the mid-teens. Yes, this was when you had to pass an ECDQ (now WLDQ) to progress past level 20, so these were, in fact, high-level characters for the makeup of the world. Also at the time, housing portals cost several thousand in gold per use. I didn't have anywhere near that much coin, not even in the bank. So I got up to the organizer's housing portal, saw how much it cost and said I couldn't afford it.  I was about to leave when the organizer handed me the gold so I could take the portal to Dregar.  Wow!

But it got better.  My lowly character, who really knew no one in the group and who was really just barely qualified for Dregar by the numbers (level 8 at the time), got caught up in some nastiness and died rather rapidly down in the caves. I had been mining gems and now, with the stat penalties from death, once someone raised me, I was encumbered and could not move very quickly.  I did what I thought I had to and dropped several hunks of mineral so I could continue.  Someone else picked them up for me (on their own) and carried them while I recovered. More wow.

And still there's more.  I managed to get through the rest of the trip without dying, and while everyone was getting set to go on somewhere elsewhere or log out for the night, the organizer of the trip asked me if I knew my way back. When I said I didn't, he made sure that some one else showed me the way.  To my absolute wonder, yet another character I did not know, who told me he hadn't been on Mistone in over a RL month, showed me how to get back to West (I had never been to any other server at that point), but he didn't stop there. He took me all the way across Alindor (then Rilara), which I also didn't know, and back to Mistone. Despite me telling him I knew my way from there, he walked me all the way from what is now Port Hempstead back to Hlint to make sure I got home safely.  Yeah...wow.

I would seriously hope this sort of thing still happens.  So many people talk about the experience, interactions and stories that interest them and have hooked them when playing here that it would be a shame if this sort of thing didn't still happen. Yet, if XP has become a more important consideration than this sort of thing, then I guess I'm not surprised if people begin to lack an attachment.

---- End gaming story ----

For reference, presently XP starts to be reduced when a player's level differs from the average party level by more than 4 levels. By the time the difference hits 12 levels from the average, XP is reduced to the minimum (which is the creature CR)

@Dezza, my apologies for the hijack.
 

Guardian 452

Re: Time for a change suggestion
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2012, 09:25:29 pm »
I would too hope that can happen in layo today. But honestly the odds of it happening are lower with less players (or no players) on when a new person is on. Yes a bit of further hijacking sorry.

Now then let me go back to my experience (with Raghnall) and put a few twists on it. Raghnall (level 10) was out with his guild members Brea, Gorm, Dutchess, and a couple non guild members joined in after a while. We toured the Desert mining in 1 cave and getting minerals in another. ragh earned 1xp on every kill. We went to the O'Tagor (sp?) cave mining and getting more minerals... again 1xp per kill.

If I would have been new to the server and this guild had invited me along I would have had a similar experience as you had Dorg. But in following outings the 1x per kill would weigh on me knowing that I could get more if I went and found something I could do myself or with people my level. Some of these choices a player cant make when no one else is on... its either play yourself (in a group geared world) or go with ghe people who are on and ignore the xp earned (or lack there of). This is just my way of thinking but how am I ever going to be close to these peoples levels if while I play with them I get peanuts while they eat steak? Would the adjustments some have mentioned help in that respect?

.
 

Hellblazer

Re: Time for a change suggestion
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2012, 09:40:32 pm »
Quote from: Dorganath
Don't take this the wrong way (meaning, I'm not coming down on you), but is this truly a common thing?


It is, let me give you an example. I'd love to help Rag get stronger for RP reasons through the cailomel's shop and such. Planning for Shop trips has been hard for that as some of our members are too low levels for some area's that's fine, but also because for the time invested, although fun and with RP, they get very little out of it (the lower level players I mean here). One of the reason why I have a few chars was to be able to play with different people but also not be a drain on levels for those who are lower than mine. Heck over time, as I was talking with Jil about it lately, I have even stopped the level progression of some of my chars so they would remain close to their rp spouse/loved ones, in the hopes that they would be able to travel together and not be a drain on them.

So yeah it happens daily I would say.

willhoff

Re: Time for a change suggestion
« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2012, 09:47:09 pm »
Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by willhoff View Post
This will prevent the "Oh I'd like to invite so and so but they'll kill our xp". If you venture out into an area above your pay grade you shouldnt get the same xp as the higher ups I agree.
Don't take this the wrong way (meaning, I'm not coming down on you), but is this truly a common thing? If so, it's a pretty terrible way to treat other players.
[/B]

This is actually not my mind set and I dont think its a common mind set among the community (not that I am even in a postion to know what the common mind set is).

Remember I'm not the OP (*winks*).  I don't think I need to defend my record here on helping other lower levels to get around as well as taking them on high level adventures no matter the xp.  ALL of my player events are always "open level" for the very reason that I DO WANT EVERYONE TO COME ALONG and show people around.  I get much more satisfaction out of the rp expereince than a few measily xp points.  

 It may be that the lower level doesnt want to hurt the higher ups xp by going on a high level trip so he doesnt bother asking to come along.  I dont really know what peoples mindsets are.  

I think the great thing about this community is that people do help others out as was your expereince Dorg.  

I also want to state for the record that I agree players shouldn't be excluding others from trips because of xp worries.

I think the spirit of this thread was trying to get folks together more for rp and fun by altering the xp for chars based on their level. The idea that allowing a more favorable xp scale would further this goal of getting char.s from different levels together I think does point to xp as "a" factor in the equation.
 

Dorganath

Re: Time for a change suggestion
« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2012, 09:48:46 pm »
Sure, Guardian. I completely see the perspective of the lower-level character in a higher-level group.  It doesn't pay off, except in experience (i.e. the non-mechanical kind) and interactions.  It's the other side of the coin that bothers me more.  

Almost everyone here, whether through stories like you and I have or though an OOC "Sure, I'll help you get a few levels" who is up in the higher-levels now got there with someone's help.  Not all the way, but to the level of survivability.

Personally, I would probably turn down a trip to a high-level area with one of my two low-level (6th or 7th level) characters, not because of the XP differential, in part because now 1XP is only the minimum for creatures of CR1 and below (which don't exist in high-level areas), but because I couldn't contribute much and because of the high chance I'd die...quickly.  That said, unless I had something else happening, I would not refuse to guide a lower-level character with Connor (level 35 presently) due to considerations of XP, nor would I patently refuse to let them come to a higher-level area for the same reasons. I would advise against it, ICly, but leave the choice to them.

Of course, ymmv.
 

Dorganath

Re: Time for a change suggestion
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2012, 09:51:29 pm »
Quote from: Hellblazer
It is, let me give you an example. I'd love to help Rag get stronger for RP reasons through the cailomel's shop and such. Planning for Shop trips has been hard for that as some of our members are too low levels for some area's that's fine, but also because for the time invested, although fun and with RP, they get very little out of it. One of the reason why I have a few chars was to be able to play with different people but also not be a drain on levels for those who are lower than mine. Heck over time, as I was talking with Jil about it lately, I have even stopped the level progression of some of my chars so they would remain close to their rp spouse/loved ones, in the hopes that they would be able to travel together and not be a drain on them.

So yeah it happens daily I would say.

That's pretty sad.
 

Hellblazer

Re: Time for a change suggestion
« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2012, 10:08:09 pm »
Quote from: Dorganath
That's pretty sad.


Don't know which part you consider sad and in what way, but unfortunately it is happening. It's not so much a desire to exclude people I think, at least not in my case, but of -me- being mindful that if I go with this or that char, I may be taking away from their progression mechanically speaking regardless of the fun of it.

We have done trips with them (lower level chars) of course, how could we be friends or even have some kind of RP belonging with their characters if we didn't, but I have seen and I have thought it myself that if I bring this or that char it will hurt the others mechanically speaking, and with that it has happened that I have either went with a lower character (which sometimes have no affiliation to the others) or just not went.