We need another Ranger Post!

[Chongo]

Yeah... I know.

I typically don't like messing with core class balance, but there's a simple problem going on with rangers on overall balance.

The misleading thing on rangers is that most documentation factors in their epic level benefits.  That is, shorter epic feat progression at 1/3, FE stacking, and Bane of Enemies.  There's a reason you see so many on level 40 based PvP servers... it's that they mature exponentially.

There's a problem on Layonara though.  The progression rate is incredibly slow by normal PW standards.  It's a great great thing.  However, Rangers gain their relative power in painful stages.  With favored enemies so few and far between, and the bonuses so limited in early levels... I fear they are at an unfair low bracket in adding value to a group overall.  They have no spell value, their animal companions are fairly weak and furthermore are inherently punitive to group play, dex based AC bonuses are still under regular armor bases due to low magic at low levels, and so on.  As far as class investment goes, it's just about all or nothing.  And seeing as how most melees on Layonara are currently multiclass based off greater damager potential in weaponmaster or rogue, or caster classes with DR breaking damage + survivability spells... it's a rough hand to be dealt.

However, I don't think extras are necessarily the answer.  I'd contend that some of the other current recommendations would be fair additions, but it's not the main issue.  The main issue is unrealistic maturity on the class.

It's a simple problem.  They mature at a rate far slower then the tempo on Layonara.  So they need intermediate bumps.

- Bane of Enemies.  Two stages.  Put in a level 12 feat, Something of Enemies, that is a non-stacking feat with BoE.  +1d8 damage vs. FE's.  When they get Bane, it is a replacement feat.  Also, make it positive or divine energy damage on both.  It is sad that such a huge class level investment is negated by balancing for crit-based core damage.

Throw it at 12 to discourage the standard break at 9 or 10 ranger then multiclassing.  With the 5 class lvl req it'll take out the option for the tri-class, most often circling ftr/wm.  If the balance fiends are that worried about it, put it at 16 so there's no multiclass potential whatsoever.  

I really like the opportunities in roleplay with rangers.  Please don't shoot me on this as I'm making an honest admission.  I've built ranger after ranger in testing to come up with something that would be viable at even a middle of the road comparison to everything else readily available.  If I test at anything less then level 26, even in group scenarios... they are uneccessarily weak.  And I've done a disturbing amount of testing particular to Layonara, and yeah, I know I don't know it all, but I'm pretty sure I'm on with this.  Again, you can shoot me for not being a purist, but everytime someone asks me to come up with a good ranger build... it just ends up being a far second from the multiple opportunities with every other class being very much so amiable to multiclassing, or just plain being so much easier to get advantageous qualities out of.  It's not a right or wrong thing, it's a factor of rangers being so slow off the start and requiring so much class level investment.

[IDii]

I was kinda waiting for one of the ranger players to post here but since they either missed or ignored it I'll say something.

I agree with this, the rangers need a bit of boost in their combat powers. However it shouldn't be done by boosting their spellcasting or giving them supernatural abilities like hide in plain sight.

The favored enemies of the ranger are the most unique thing the class has. And currently the ability is a bit underpowered I think, only giving +1 damage and an additional +1 per 5 levels. Adding this extra damage bonus at about level 12 would be a good idea I think.

Only problem with it would be that it just about means every lvl12+ ranger has to be releveled. Less of course if it's made a lvl16 feat.

[Lord of the Forest]

I must admit I totally forgot to post about it, being a ranger player myself here.
I for myself like the idea of giving them such a feat. Seeing the step to 'Bane of Enemies' is a rather huge step. So something in between should fit very well, even in the development of a ranger. 1d8 compared to 2d6.
But I would prefer to give it to them at lvl 16 though. As IDii already said, the fav enemies is something unique to the class, so I don't really like to see everyone getting 12 ranger levels and then multiclass into something else. Giving them this ability at lvl 16 would stop that.
And yeah, less to re-level.

[twidget658]

Ignored? Not at all. I thought I said everything else in other posts.

I will say that 'spells', yes they are spells by definition, can be played another way. 'Spells' would be the easiest fix and would not require re-leveling. The only drawback would be the limited spell slots.

I really would like to see a feat/spell granted or able to be selected later in the levels for the serious ranger player.

Whew...something needs to be done, though. I am getting tired of seeing Rod get his butt kicked by rats and goblins.

***Disclaimer: The rats and goblin comment was an exaggeration and not meant to be taken seriously. The ranger has a summons that can take care of the rats and goblins while the ranger heals himself/herself.***

[steverimmer]

I personally think that giving them such a feat would be a bad move.  Mainly because it moves away from the PnP version of the ranger.  I think that the best way forward would be firstly to grant them the spells they have in PnP as well as some of the feats.  

It seems to me that one of the worst problems a ranger has to contend with are his defensive capabilites, or rather the lack of them.  This is compounded by the level requirements and high cost for the more effective light armour.  There are two feats in particular which may help the ranger in this...firstly there is the feat 'evasion' which PnP rangers get around level 9 or thereabouts, and secondly they get the option to take 'two weapon defense' along with all the other classes.  How about giving them both of these, I'm not sure whether 'two weapon defense' could be scripted, but if not how about a +2 dodge bonus feat granted automatically at level 12 instead?

With some of his PnP spells restored and these two feats granted automatically what you'd have at the end is a ranger that would be very close to the original concept.

[Hellblazer]

I think that what is hindering the ranger more than anything else, is the slow learning curve that he/she has over the other classes. To many of the Automatic feats are for Favored Enemy, which does not give a true advantage class wise, and their spell level and casting number ability are to wide spread.

[Lord of the Forest]

Ahem, fav enemies make a ranger special, and getting one each 5 levels is not too many. At lvl 20 you'll have 5 fav enemies and trust me, a ranger at lvl 20 is really a pain for their fav enemies. Rangers are quite effective against their chosen opponents.
Then again rangers are a combat class and no spellslinger class at all. They have the same BAB as fighters, palas and other fighter  classed. The spells are only there to aid them a bit.
Rangers have few spells but some of them are very effective though. And I am with steve here that a few more spells like barkskin wont harm anyone and would like to see a few of them added ig.

But this thread here is not about the spells it all, it is about a feat Chongo suggested. And giving them this feat at like lvl 16 would add something special to this class.