The World of Layonara  Forums

Author Topic: Wemic Balancing  (Read 289 times)

lonnarin

Wemic Balancing
« on: June 14, 2009, 04:57:18 am »
I was reading through some submissions and noted to myself that I've never seen anybody stick with a Wemic for very long.  There have been plenty of very well RPed ones I met, but those characters get abandoned very quickly.  When looking through the stats for them on Lore, I can understand why.

Racial Qualities:

    * +2 Constitution, +2 Wisdom, -2 Intelligence, -2 Charisma (ESA +2 CON, +2 WIS, -2 INT, -2 CHA)
    * +2 to Listen, Spot and Search checks
    * +2 Animal Empathy
    * -2 AC from the size of the overall animal
    * -2 Concentration
    * -2 Appraise
    * -2 Persuade
    * Starting class restrictions:
          o Druid
          o Rogue
          o Ranger
          o Barbarian
          o Sorcerer
          o Bard
    * Barbarian Fast Movement
    * ECL: 2

when looking at stats, they are balanced with a +2,+2 vs. -2,-2. Skills have a +2 overall bonus with +2,+2,+2,+2 vs. -2,-2,-2.  barbarian Fast movement is a plus, but the class restrictions easily balance that out.  Then there's a ECL: 2 on par with a dark elf... ouch.  Add to this that they receive -2 AC from a size large (Size large being usually a -1 ac according to D&D mechanics)... ouch ouch and then on top of all of that, they are restricted to not only never use heavy armors, but also never to use any medium armors as well as they are all made of worked metal.  And add to that they don't even know common.  They are also stricken from using any finished metal weapons according to Ed, which is a huge disadvantage considering one of the perks is that they can use large weapons one-handed.  And they're supposed to use short bows as they're lower tech than longbows, which brings to mind the very hilarious image of a size large creature using a bow designed for a gnome.

I understand the desire to make them rare, but the total stats come out to a -1 ECL in that without the skin, they'd actually get more bang for the buck.  The double-whammy of -2 dodge ac and being limited to only light armor means that a starting wemic with a NICE DEX, say 16 would still have a 14 AC in Hide Armor, and even then they are discouraged from wearing armor unless in combat, which makes them sitting ducks for ambushes with an 11 AC.  With an average DEX of 10, that's 11 AC in battle and 8 AC when not.

I'd suggest one or more of the following changes: (and please add more ideas as you see fit!)

1. Some Natural Armor AC Bonus: as they aren't allowed to use anything but light armor.  If you're a massive lion, that hide must add SOME protection, aye?  It would also make for interesting RP as they would refuse most barkskin which would mess up their manes.

2. Lighten up on the banned weapons: If your perk is size large weapons can be used one handed, then let them use some size large weapons other than spear and quarterstaff which only do 1d8/x2 which is worse than a longsword.  Let them use falchions, greataxes, halberds and the like.  Not to mention scimitars which are already allowed for druids who shun metal weapons (or falchion, the wemic-sized scimitar ;) ).

3. Lower the -2 dodge ac to -1 in line with Size Large Creatures.  How do giantkin get +2 bonus dodge when they're large, while wemics with cat-feat get -2 dodge?  Wouldn't four cat feet with great leaping power and fast movement be a better dodger than a two-legged giant of the same size?  As the news has shown us, normal tiger can scale 8 foot tall walls and eat kids making fun of them at zoos with a single bound.  They could also have at least a -1 to attack from being size large.

4. Scent Feat Automatically: Why take the feat manually later when they already were born with the nose attached to their face?  Maybe specify that they MUST take this witht he human quick-to-master feat.

5: Low Light Vision: On par with the LORE description which points out that they see well in the dark having feline eyes.

6: Add +2 or +4 STR since they are size large with 4 feet and massive arms

7: Improved Unarmed Strike: as LORE states that they have large hands with retractable claws.

8: or just lower the ECL


Thank you for your time considering these proposals and please anybody interested add some feedback on your own wemic experiences and your ideas for improvement.  if you've made a wemic before but don't play it often, why not?
 

superdoofus

Re: Wemic Balancing
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2009, 08:00:17 am »
I don't think I've ever seen a wemic.  I think for RP purposes they should take off some of the set backs because the Wemic population obviously isn't zero.  While I get why you put in the set backs it would be better if there were a PC population of Wemics.  I actually wanted to make a Wemic but when i saw the setbacks I made a face like this O.o
 

SteveMaurer

Re: Wemic Balancing
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2009, 08:06:10 pm »
I'm not intensely concerned with making Wemics powerful.   If you want a powerful Wemic, I'd just write up a CoDzilla:

Foolish girl!  I'm a druid!  I have special abilities more powerful than your entire class!!

On yer feet and face me!  Ye may haf tha upper hand in magic, but thar's na way a primary spellcaster like ye can survive mele combat fer long if'n he hadn't prepared for it! ...  Ah, right.   Druid.   Ne'er mind, then.

(D&D has never been terribly well thought out or play balanced - use Gurps or Hero System for that.)

But still, I would like the Wemic skins to be accurate to their LORE descriptions.  That seems reasonable.   And in addition to the ideas Lonnarin presented, I have a single suggestion that might work pretty easily that would be trivial to implement.

Make Wemics default class be that of "Monk".

Now I mean that merely as a special effect.  I'm not proposing that Wemics are somehow oriental, but their overall world view is clearly one which emphasizes natural combat, to which the closest game engine mechanic is the Monk.  Monks have increased speed, wisdom based DC (unarmored only), and a decent unarmed attacks.   All you really have to do is say that wemics can take their "natural combatant" Monk-like levels any time they want, and they wouldn't be quite so obviously broken.
 

EdTheKet

Re: Wemic Balancing
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2009, 02:34:21 am »
We'll give it some thought. If anyone has other suggestions, please post them.
 

SteveMaurer

Re: Wemic Balancing
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2009, 07:04:00 pm »
Please also consider, when thinking about play balance, Ed's answers to what Wemic PCs are and are not allowed to do.

The disadvantages of wemic PCs go far beyond what lonnarin has pointed out.  Among other things, the prohibition on using metals in any form mean that many magic items and other things are off limits.   Maybe money as well.

Consider that when you are play balancing.

http://forums.layonara.com/character-submissions/230092-new-character-submission-akul-ed-review.html
 

drakogear

Re: Wemic Balancing
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2012, 07:06:44 pm »
I see there are a few threads about wemics on here already... all fairly old including this one. Yet the wemics don't seem to have been changed any. :\\

Now pretty much like I always do and I apologize but figuring in a few real life things. I have a few suggestions though not sure if it would be balancing them or OPing them.

1. As they are part cat and a large and physically strong race a -2 AC just seem a bit... off. For one as lonnarin sugessted they would have tough skin additionally or perhaps in stead given there part cat they would have what is called "Cat like Reflexes" Though I suppose this could go either way. Increased dodge to AC or increased reflex save... or a bit of both.

2. One of the reasons I'd say wemics arn't played for very long is cause at level 15 everyone else is running way ahead on there horses. My suggestion. Grant Wemics a spell like ability to cast haste on self. After all many wild cats can run as fast if not faster than horses.

3. Either low-light or dark vision. They have cat eyes and all cats, from small house cats to large lions are all adept at seeing in the dark.

The rest lonnarin has pretty much already suggested.
 

Dremora

Re: Wemic Balancing
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2012, 04:43:53 am »
Only idea I disagree with is no. 2. I have a character at level 21, nearly 22. No horse :P Not to mention they have barbarian movement speed for increased speed but I dont think its enough. Haste might give them an unfair advantage early on just to encourage play (not good) but upping the movement % wouldnt hurt really, so long as its not as fast as haste or expeditious or the speed of an epic monk.