Character Location Metagaming

[vgn]

This is a topic I brought up in Ed's wonderful RP 101 class today. I have found several times when logging into Layonara, someone will see the log on and then send a Tell asking for location. This is often done either because they want to set up a trade (as discussed on the forums) or maybe they just want to adventure together.  Some folks are rather blatant and the tell goes something like this: "Hey, what's up? Want to go adventure? Where are you?"  This tends to disrupt the gaming atmosphere.  There are some nicer uses of the Tell that achieve the desired goal, but are less obtrusive.  Orth's Plenarius character will often "Send a hawk out over the land in search of ."  The other player can then respond with something like " sees a beautiful hawk soaring over ."  Ed has suggested any variation on this works well. "Send a pigeon with a note." "Send Postmaster Vale." If you are a wizard, "Send your familiar in search of the person."  Remember, tells don't have to be completely occ and RP can be infused anywhere and everywhere.

[orth]

I wish I had the option to turn tells off.  It's very frustrating sometimes.  Especially when there is no good reason you can't just wait until the next time the person and I bump in to each other.  I don't want to come off as rude, but they are exactly what you say, disruptive.  When I'm out alone for whatever reasons, I wish to be just that, alone.  I don't want to be distracted by a tell when I'm in the middle of battle or enjoying some RP with someone in person.

Be more considerate, ask yourself if the tell is absolutely necessary, and if you think it is, make a concerted effort to RP the tell.

[steverimmer]

I think you can turn tells off can't you?  Isn't it one of the options when you right click on the bar at the top of the text window?

*Eep* Sorry, Plen. I took my cue from what I saw others do and started using tells heavily, and looking back I'm sure that I've annoyed you with them once or twice. Will moderate.

Hrothgar

[flyinghaggis]

I'm not sure I agree on this.
Sending birds ic for talking between characters over huge unknown distances, and having the messages arrive effectively instantly not taking days or more is worse than doing it ooc.
Can become quite excessive if people are wandering around with their pigeon farms all the time to send messages of importance, like mobile phones.  There should at least be a major time delay in the whole process.  Better to just have no standard none magical ic communication, gives casters who put in the effort to get whispering winds or scrying to get a pay off.

Some people that send messages to other players, are people that oocly want to play togther.   I tend to play with a tiny group of select players in a more pnp like group amongst a server full of others.
It is totally understandable that we would gather and play togther.  Whether we arrange to meet at a specific time each week/day or gather in irc or other chat programs then join game, or send tells when actually in game.  It all works well to get the desired group of friends togther.

Though yes, you are right.  If it is not a 100% known/liked/trusted friend then you shouldnt be pestering them with tell.  Its rude and annoying to say the least but that would come into effect whether there be an ic/ooc arguement or not, thats just common courtesy.

[Xerina]

Also how is the average peroson getting a bird to find a specific person, druids, rangers and the like maybe. Wizards have familiers who are pry better able to understand their master due to usualy having higher inteligence then a pigion who has a int of I think maybe 3.  They can be trained to fly to 1 or 2 locations you have to have a homming pigion for each location you wish to send a message they can't find a specific person. Rangers and druids with mental comminication might if they have a general location in mind but to send a bird to search the entire world for someone your talking months and months as the bird would basicly have to circle out in ever increasing circles and can't fly non stop.  And that assumes the person in question didn't enter the opposite side of the circle so the bird don't miss them.  It requires a huge suspension on belief. Spells are the best are thier are specific spells in PnP that are used for this so that a cleric leader can communicate with the clergy inthe field of a master wizard his apprentice.
I know its unavoidable but it really ruins my RPing experience when I get tells of invites form people far away even if on the other side of the same zone, same with party I perfer just talk if your out of earshot so be it.
But I feel the same about using the name above a mob to know who or what it is. If I have never seen an ettercap or beholder I shouldn't know what they are.  Some mobs are so unique or so common they are known such as goblin, orc, pry ogre and troll, dragons etc and perhaps a beholder is one but their are several names for them, beholder, eye tyrant, eyeball, etc.  But theirs no way to tell a drow assassin from a regular drow or a mercinary along the road side from a caravan guard.  I think that and the instent knowledge of tactics before a fight because of static spawns thriws off my RPing the most. I mean sure goblins in the goblin cave are going to keep popping up thier are pry hundreds of them perhaps thousands in a large network but they are not all going to stand in the same spot with the same weapons everytime you enter their cave.  Well that and people telling you where a quest item is they completed, if you completed it then for you its not the same item or shouldn't instently be in the same spot it was lost last time.

[Torgar]

In any PW, it's important to achieve balance between fantasy and reality.

Seeking a PC using carrier pigeons and/or a messenger is a much more desirable alternative to, "Hey, what's up. Where are you?"

Is it perfect? Of course not. But it's probably the closest you'll come in a video game.

[Frendh]

If you are someone who gets a tell from me and get distracted or
annoyed. Either tell me to stop or ignore. I'll get the point after
the second tell.

Being rude can't be avoided sometimes. Communication is often
a must to tell someone how you feel or want. Especially in
text based medias.

[Frendh]

Personally I don't use birds. Magical or hyper intelligent birds
are too common in my opinion.

I sometimes I use a "messenger" or errand boy. That's not always
good either. Like a guy who found you and comes running while you're
down in the underdark.

I don't do RP in tells unless someone runs away right before I press
enter or if I was afk and times when someone else iniates RP over
tells. Probably more times it happens, like in the paragraph above,
just saying I don't do it often and try to use talk as much as possible.
Yes that means I have to find the guy I want to talk to.

[Etinfall]

Talking between playing buds is one thing. But when you log on and get 5 pm's from people about stuff you are selling or just  a whatchya doing gets annoying. For Orth and the dm's it is probally even worse. I don't think people are saying to always use a bird, that was  just an example, Orth uses a hawk. I sometimes use a field mouse if they are close and have animal language. The point being that when you see someone log on think about it before sending tells about things. If you see a gm's character log on that means they are there to play. If you have a problem or a question use the dm channel.

And the last tiime I tried to mention this to a player he /she got upest.

Etiin






"Blood, you have gone to far this time."

"How dare you speak to me, I am all powerfull!!!"

"Blood, you will get what you deserve eventually"

"and you will be the one to dole out this...punishment?"
JoeSchmo logs on
message from JoeSchmo:He you got a +2 longsword for sale?

"if not me someone like me will!"

[Frendh]

Etinfall - 6/24/2005  2:23 AM

But when you log on and get 5 pm's from people about stuff you are selling

If you are selling things in the trade market, getting tells is to be
expected. Unless you spefically mention in the trade market post that
contact should only be made through PMs or somesuch.

And the last tiime I tried to mention this to a player he /she got upest.

Can't walk through life without upsetting people. And you can't walk through life
not getting upset by people.

[Frendh]

By the way, I'm pretty sure that somewhere in the maze
of rules and must reads they mention specifically not
to bother GMs who are in as players since they are
there to relax.

Why I took it for granted that you don't bother them.

[ZeroVega]

  It does, but you can bother me any time. *mumbles, God knows I deserve it*

[Etinfall]

I guess your right. It just starts the gaming session off bad when I get these tells. Like I said it helps to just rp it in some way. He do you guys have any adamantium stuff in the store? What lvl requirement is a +2 wisdom ring? Do you sell copper?

Just last night I got a pm from a character, it was rp'd and I have no problem with that at all. It keeps me emerged in the setting is all. I don't mind getting tells, just rp it.

Etin

and your right going through life you gonna upset people. Well, going through Layo and asking someone too rp a tell is gonna up set someone and make them send even more ooc tells saying that it is a tell and doesn't need to be rp'd.By the time the ooc explanations is finished I usually don't feel like playing.

[Talan Va'lash]

Tells to arrange a sale are kindof a compromise because we arent on 24/7 even though were it real, our chars would be somewhere 24/7.  Talan spends a lot of time lounging around somewhere when I'm not logged on, but I cant make any sales durring that time since, well, i'm not logged on.  While talan were it real probably would sit around drinking wine in hlint or somewhere waiting for his contacts to come along throughout the day or evening, I have to kindof speed up that process since Talan wont be accessable after I log off.

[Andi_DeMorte]

Sending tells can be a touchy subject as I, personally, feel that all tells are ooc yet that does not mean that I want 50 tells bombarded at me when I log on for any reason.  Tells are a wonderful way to get to know the player behind the PC... sometimes I think we can forget that there is a person behind that PC that has feelings and can be very unlike the character they play.  To a certain degree that is good, it means the world is consuming. At another point it's bad because sometimes we can get swept up in emotion and say/do things that hurts other players or get hurt ourselves.  I think we all know what I am talking about here and that most of us have been on the giving AND receiving end of that.

The only thing that we can really do is politely let others know how we feel about tells and to respect if someone asks you not to send tells or to rp your tells.  Keep in mind that if someone gets upset with you that you might not be the first tell they received and they are prolly more upset about the situation and not at you. On the other hand don't take out your anger on the person that sent you tell #5 as they don't know how many tells you have received before the tell they sent. Over all I am talking about Respect.

*hugs*
Andi

[Varnart]

 Well, both of my characters are wizards, so I usually RP it as being a Message spell (Player's Handbook page 253). It's a 0-level spell that lets you communicate during 10 minutes per caster level. The cost for a scroll of it is minimal, so I assume I have one when I need it (12 gp, 5 sp).

[Germaine Lorn]

RE the use of birds etc.  Only mages who can cast appropriate spells and ranger/druid etc types who can control animals should be able to do tells (and only animals they could control with empathy).  Hell that is pretty much one of the key skills ranger/druids have in fantasy literature (where would the beastmaster be without his hawk).  


Is it really instant though?  Is 1 minute real time = 1 minute Layonara time? I tend to delay answering tells from mages/druids etc if they are a LONG way off to account for the distance my "friends" have to travel.  

As far as ordinary PC's are concerned no tells over distance that are in-game should be allowed at all.  I guess this is what you get from the mobile-phone generation.  

Germaine Lorn

[Germaine Lorn]

oops - forgot to add that's just an opinion - of which I have lots.  And a big ol' bunch of them are *expletive deleted*.  The post about respecting others rights to have a different view on tells I can appriciate wholeheartedly.

Germaine Lorn

[Giganos]

usually nwn time is two real minutes = one game hour ... for the purposes of spells and stuff. [edit] just read it's 4 minutes here

So I guess if the person sending you a tell says how far away the pigeon/familiar/messenger boy is coming from you could respond in the appropriate number of "Hours"


Personally I don't mind tells, I'm used to multitasking and multiconversationing (oh dear another made up word) so the OOC tell just doesn't register in the character's response to his present stimulus.

I guess I type fairly fast so I can send tells and hold a conversation at the same time.

Of course, I don't expect others to have the same opinion as me so mostly I leave tells alone for anyone I don't specifically know is happy to accept them from me.


I guess if someone sends "A pigeon is sent to you asking if the magic sword you have for sale is still available and that Bigo Heado (or other silly name) is currently in Hlint with a bag of gold if you are." as a tell

you can always respond with "The pigeon is eaten by gryphons." if you are annoyed by it or are feeling particularly cranky.