Feat Selection and Creature Skin Penalties

[Faldred]

Not that I'll be seeing level 12+ anytime soon, but for character planning, I was looking ahead to see what it would take to get Zug the Whirlwind Attack feat.  Most of it is pretty simple, just a lot of feats -- Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack all require 13+ DEX, and Zug can get that by taking DEX+1 at level 12.

Where I run into a quandy, however, is Expertise.  Without the creature skin, Zug's INT is 12 (8 with the skin adjustments)... if Zug takes INT+1 at level 16, the engine will allow him to take Expertise at level 17 or higher, because it does not take the creature skin into account at level-up.

The question is... is this Kosher?  Looking from both an RP and rules view, that is.

I mean, Zug's a good fighter... he's not bright in comparison to others in terms of general knowledge, etc., but he knows fighting.  Is it reasonable for him to be proficient with this style of fighting?

[Weeblie]

It's VERY STRONGLY suggested that you do not do this.

I'm not 100% sure of if this breaks the server rules or not... Hm... Bad memory, here.

[Pen N Popper]

I tend to be overly strict with myself when it comes to my PCs. In this case, though, I opted to go with whatever the game allows and to adjust my stats to allow my PCs to get feats that I found desirable. (I can't recall which feats this applied to for my PCs.)

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

For the purposes of selecting feats, your character's ADJUSTED stats should be taken into account. I can't say you're forbidden to do that, not being on the Team (though I'm sure a Team member will come along and say it soon enough), but in my eyes that would be a horrible exploit of the game mechanics.

I'm not coming down on you, don't get me wrong (after all, you're taking the consideration to ask what everyone thinks). I would, though, be rather irked if people made a habit of doing this. After all, isn't a Half-Giant powerful enough without Whirlwind Attack?

[s0ulz]

*coughs* He is powerful enough, but it's a prerequisite for WM. I'm pretty sure adjusted stats should be taken account, although if things were the other way around (adjusted stats should allow a feat, but unadjusted dont - mechanics issue) then there's nothing we can do. So perhaps some lenience with cases that arent as exaggerated as it is with giants.

[Flaron1990]

I think you should be able to take feats that you shouldn't be able to take. Mainly since that when you take a Sub-Race you get your bonus stats, and your losses, those losses arn't counted when leveling, but neither are those bonuses. I think, just for making it even for Sub-Races and normal Races, that you should do what the game lets you(since from what I see, there is no way around the game mechanics).
It's easily RPable I'd think. Just say something like "I fake it well enough that it works", or for the ones you're not good enough for just say "I try, but just can't."

However, if you know what you want to do with your character from the start then I think you should prepare your character so their modified and unmodified stats work for what you want if it's possible, if it isn't then get it as close so it's not as bad as it could be.

[Chnmmr]

Well the way I see it... the subrace gets an int penalty.  So being able to take a feat that -shouldn't- be available to you based on your final stats is an exploit.  Look at it this way, races with stat bonuses that aren't hard coded (eg Aasimar wis and cha boost) cant get feats based of those 'new' stats because the system doesnt recognise the boost.

[Faldred]

Thanks for the input, everyone.  This is why I ask these silly questions sometimes... to avoid trouble before I get into it.

Okay... back to the drawing board.  (Although I have plenty of time...)