The Layonara Community > Roleplaying

Food for thought: Stealth

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Aphel:
I originally wanted to post an answer to this other topic,  but then I figured it would be best to take the opportunity to approach  the issue differently. I would like to share my thoughts on the issue  of stealth, and if there are any thougths and discussions archived on  this topic, a link won't do no harm.

One of things that can be  done with most RPG I played is to create and play character using  stealth. Some systems implement it better than others, some make things  easier for player and GM while others just provide competetive skill  checks and a limited ability to back stab. That aside and talked about  later, there are some more roleplay-oriented things that I think might  be worth talking about.

Stealth and how it can be roleplayed is  in my experience only limited by time and patience of those involved as  it could drag on for quite a while to play it out. In the past, I used  text macros to emote what my character was doing, however it felt too  simple and easy most of the time, automated in an way that somehow  didn't quite fit to what I wanted to portray. It's a bit more  complicated than *uses the terrain, light and his own gear to conceal himself*, so here are a few thoughts. Stealth depends on various different factors:[*]Distance to your enemies
[*]Perception of your enemies
[*]Amount of cover
[*]Personal skill and gear
[*]Alertness of your enemies
[*]Environment
[*]What you want to do
[*]What your enemies can do[/LIST]Stealth  is more than being unheard or unseen. You can be seen, but judged as  harmless or be forgotten quite easily. Items can be disguised as  harmless objects, and mind games shall be played. Creativity is important if you approach stealth in your roleplay.

Think  of those that you want to elude, confuse and deceive. What kind of  sense to they have? Do they have good smell, heat sensitivity, dark  vision? How alert and/or paranoid are they? How far away are they? What  are they looking for, and what do they deem as harmless? Most of these  questions can be answered by the GM or come from the experiences of the  character.


How much concealment does your character  have available? No matter the armor penalty, with 100% line of sight  cover it is hard to see somebody. Sure, other senses then smell or  really bad luck (shadows, parts of gear sticking out of cover etc) it  can still be possible to notice somebody. On a very loud place, or a  very smelly or hot place, other senses might be likewise limited.  Stealth can also mean that distractions and baits are used to remain  unnoticed. Hide and move silently can be used without training, and if  he stays out of sight, even a warrior in full plate can sneak up on  somebody, or remain hidden.
It is quite possible to hide a warrior  in full plate with a tower shield in plain sight without the use of  magic. It does depend on your opponent and her or his abilities and  resources, and maybe a good bluff check or something similar.


Stealth  is all about perception and creativity, yours and your opponents. It's  more than just a perception check against a skill check, and even Hide  in plain sight has its downfalls. If rangers and shadowdancers can  aquire at a certain level the ability of doing a hide check despite  being observed, does that mean one can't use distractions to achieve the  same? Of course one can. Hide in plain sight just implies, in my  opinion, that the character is so good at using her or his  environment/mystical ability/ to  simply "vanish" despit being "watched". It's a perception game, after  all.

Stealth is a great tool to solve encounters  if the GM so permits. Just like combat, magic and social skills it can  be (more or less) cleverly used, and even should be used in my opinion.

What  do you think in regards to the use of stealth? When roleplaying  stealth, how do you go about it? Or does it hinder the flow of action  too much for you? What are your pet peeves in regards to  stealth/stealthy characters? Do you use it with the character you play  on quests?
Do you think making things complexis better than  making it easy and simple, reducing it to competetive skill checkes and  +d6 sneak attack, or vice versa?

Stephen_Zuckerman:
My character has a Cloak of Elvenkind (along with a few other items) that make him harder to see by camouflaging him with his surroundings. When he's focused on being stealthy, he blends in as well or better than an invisible character (his +36 beats the heck out of the +20 you get from Invis... In PnP, anyway).

This, of course, is physically being hard to see. For Phinn, that's the pinnacle of stealth - not subterfuge, but almost not even being there at all.

For the rest of your [strike]article[/strike] post... I think you're really just overthinking it a little.

lonnarin:
I think using stealth skills is an excellent application of misdirection to get by obstacles.  If you want to avoid or get the drop on something on any of my quests, by all means send me a tell and I'll work with it.  Something like throwing a coin down the hallway to make a guard chase it to investigate, disguising yourself like a commoner in a crowd, swaddling a shortsword to make it look like a baby, hiding objects real well on your person to avoid them being confiscated, all applicable.  Many skills like tumble, pickpocket/sleight of hand, bluff, diplomacy, use magic device and spellcraft have a multitude of uses outside the Neverwinter code-box with the right imagination. ;)

Stephen_Zuckerman:
And here I thought we were just talking about Hide/Move Silently.

Liches don't know 'bout my Adventuring Kit.

Aphel:

--- Quote from: Stephen_Zuckerman ---My character has a Cloak of Elvenkind (along with a few other items) that make him harder to see by camouflaging him with his surroundings. When he's focused on being stealthy, he blends in as well or better than an invisible character (his +36 beats the heck out of the +20 you get from Invis... In PnP, anyway).

This, of course, is physically being hard to see. For Phinn, that's the pinnacle of stealth - not subterfuge, but almost not even being there at all.
--- End quote ---
So, no real interesting roleplay involved? Slip on gear, done?


--- Quote ---For the rest of your [strike]article[/strike] post... I think you're really just overthinking it a little.
--- End quote ---
Thanks. That means I am doing it right. :D


--- Quote from: lonnarin ---I think using stealth skills is an excellent application of misdirection  to get by obstacles.  If you want to avoid or get the drop on something  on any of my quests, by all means send me a tell and I'll work with it.   Something like throwing a coin down the hallway to make a guard chase  it to investigate, disguising yourself like a commoner in a crowd,  swaddling a shortsword to make it look like a baby, hiding objects real  well on your person to avoid them being confiscated, all applicable.   Many skills like tumble, pickpocket/sleight of hand, bluff, diplomacy,  use magic device and spellcraft have a multitude of uses outside the  Neverwinter code-box with the right imagination. ;)
--- End quote ---
In my experience, the usefulness of a more thinking/tactical approach including stealth is limited in quests, usually. There's simply not enough time to roleplay things out, as a GM, you can't devote time to a single character and let the others out on a quest. So at best, a sneak character does a bit of scouting, practically. The rest is just the "bonus damage", which means that in most cases, unless you rp things in a CDQ or over the forums/IRC, you can't do what you should be able to. Maybe that's a problem with the large groups during quests. I am very interested to find a solution which benefits all involved parties. One can reduce a charater to a min/maxed heap of numbers (hm, all the possibilities of game theory, probability theory and other nice things...), then again, so can I in other, more competetive oriented mmorpgs, and what would be the point of calling it a "character", but ymmv.

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