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Author Topic: How Technologically Advanced Are We?  (Read 869 times)

LynnJuniper

How Technologically Advanced Are We?
« on: February 17, 2007, 07:36:28 pm »
Alright, this has been something that's been getting to me for a while. How technologically advanced is Layonara? Our characters have gnomish tinkering devices, Magic for every occasion, 'jukeboxes' but do they have, for example Indoor plumbing or a way to keep meat cool in those chests?

I know Layo is fictional and takes place in the 'middle ages' but I thought it would be fun to muse on. What technological luxuries do/don't our characters have?
 

Stephen_Zuckerman

Re: How Technologically Advanced Are We?
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2007, 08:03:21 pm »
Well, the gnomes, from what I can tell, more or less live in the 1800s in terms of technology. *Chuckles.*

For the rest of us? I'd figure sometime before the invention of the Printing Press, but not too far back.

Middle Ages, nothing. We've got decent locks. *Chuckles.*
 

Leanthar

Re: How Technologically Advanced Are We?
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2007, 08:20:14 pm »
There is very little "technology" in the world and it needs to remain that way for quite some time. I would say the gnomes are nowhere near the 1800's ...but they would be closer any other races (by a long shot.

"....example Indoor plumbing....."
Nope. It does not exist. But some high up royalties do have bathing systems that resemble indoor plumbing... but it is for the absolute wealthy and absolute royalty and even then it is exceedingly rare.

".....or a way to keep meat cool in those chests....."
Magic.

Technology is pretty much around the Roman times (200 BC etc.) for 99% of the world. Gnomes are well... gnomes hehe... and they have their own things.

But that info is very loose and don't pinpoint stuff to it please--I am just trying to show that technology is quite low (and will remain so for some time).
 

LynnJuniper

Re: How Technologically Advanced Are We?
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2007, 08:24:11 pm »
Alright, Cause I was wondering about those fancy little baths L, I really was ;)

Just a matter of personal interest for a very long time and I thought it could make a silly discussion as to new thinggerbobs Gnomes could go crazy inventing.

And: No Printing Press! =O *giggles*
 

Stephen_Zuckerman

Re: How Technologically Advanced Are We?
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2007, 08:25:54 pm »
Well, I was right about before the printing press. *Chuckles.* Way before.
 

Jearick Hgar

Re: How Technologically Advanced Are We?
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2007, 10:20:29 pm »
You know, the Romans were pretty advance, they used cement, had aqua ducts, and were military geniouses. They also invented the keystone, and if i'm not mistaken they had cannons. They also had concepts such as pi, Hypotnues (sp), circumphrance, etc. to say we're as advanced as the romans is alot, they ahd alot going for them for their time. They were pretty much on the verge of guns.

my point is, are we at the point the Romans were or are a little under their point?
 

Stephen_Zuckerman

Re: How Technologically Advanced Are We?
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2007, 11:09:45 pm »
I'd say the height of the Roman Empire would work... After all, we're very advanced in what we can do, just as they were. But not advanced in a "modern" sense.
 

darkstorme

Re: How Technologically Advanced Are We?
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2007, 12:10:08 am »
Well, pi would be the work of Pythagorus, a Greek thinker, as was the hypotenuse.. or at least its work in mathematics.  Circumference existed well before anyone was alive, but again, the Greeks were the first to notice that it invariably divided into the diameter by the same number.  The Romans did NOT, however, have gunpowder.. so any cannons would have had to have been by some other means.. and as the Romans were famous for their use of catapults and chariots, I rather doubt firearms were within their reach, even at the Empire's height.

Aqueducts, yes.  Military geniuses.... debatable, but some of them, sure.  Octavius, Vesuvius, even Augustus.  Mathematical geniuses?  Not really.  Mostly stolen from the Greeks.  Along with their pantheon.  And a bunch of other stuff, plumbing among it.

I think that Layonara would be closest to Europe's Dark Ages, but with magic to make life a bit more livable.  Things like magical "refrigerators" to keep meat fresh would not only make life more livable, but might in fact stall development in that regard.  Likewise magical lights in place of electricity.  The presence of fountains that don't appear to require huge reservoirs or massive bellows implies that either magic has a hand in that (in which case indoor plumbing might be quite reasonable), or Layo's a bit more sophisticated than the Middle Ages.  Either way, hygeine might also be expected to be a bit better than in the medieval equivalent... which would fit with the remarkable healing talent many adventurers cultivate.  Sterile bandages and boiling water combined with medicinal herbs can go a long way.. and perhaps some bread mold is included in every healing kit, to deal with those nasty rat-borne infections.  *grins*
 

steverimmer

Re: How Technologically Advanced Are We?
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2007, 12:48:34 am »
Quote
You know, the Romans were pretty advance, they used cement, had aqua ducts, and were military geniouses. They also invented the keystone, and if i'm not mistaken they had cannons. They also had concepts such as pi, Hypotnues (sp), circumphrance, etc. to say we're as advanced as the romans is alot, they ahd alot going for them for their time. They were pretty much on the verge of guns.


You know the Romans also developed the steam engine, although living in a slave society they never fully realised its potiential...it just shows how the cultural and social viewpoints of indervidual societies can seriously effect that societies technology...and perhaps other things.  I often wonder how much of the world we're all missing :)

See links:

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/rochelle.f/The-Discovery-of-steam-power.html
http://www.britannica.com/ebc/article-9367005
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero_of_Alexandria
http://library.thinkquest.org/C006011/english/sites/heron_bio.php3?v=2
 

Carillon

Re: How Technologically Advanced Are We?
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2007, 01:18:59 am »
Now let's not continue to deprive the Greeks of their due .. Hero, or Heron of Alexandria did indeed invent the first steam engine, but he was Greek. Not Roman. Really, the Greeks did most of the heavy lifting, intellectually speaking! The Romans just knew how to plagiarize :P
 

Ar7

Re: How Technologically Advanced Are We?
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2007, 01:27:41 am »
Quote
darkstorme - 2/18/2007  12:10 AM

Romans were famous for their use of catapults and chariots, I rather doubt firearms were within their reach, even at the Empire's height.


The Romans never ever used chariots!

I also think that saying that Layonara is as advanced as the Roman Empire is overdoing it. I mean if at one point we say that only the selected few have plumbing and then compare Layo to the Roman Empire, then it already doesn't match, as the Romans not only had plumbing, but also heated floors and complex ventilation systems. So I would agree with one of the previous posters and say that Layonara resembles the Europe's Dark Ages, rather than the Roman Empire, or Rufus is going to install some very advanced things in his mansion :)
 

Nibor21

RE: How Technologically Advanced Are We?
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2007, 01:31:54 am »
Well if you want to assume that Layo has Roman technology you need to look at how that technology was distributed. To the average ancient Briton living in his iron-age village, the Roman invasion would have added almost zero technology to his life. Certain trades improved in the far-flung reaches of the empire as a result of technology, such as glass making but that was essentially it.

The important thing to remember about the Romans is that their 'technology' was if you like mentally rather physically different from the rest of world. What do I mean by that? Well (with the exception of the above stated concrete) all the Roman materials and crafting technologies were essentially the same as say the Gauls or ancient Britons had. It was how they used the raw materials that was important. The technology to create a Roman sewer system is simple. It goes like this:
1.) Get a man with a whip.
2.) Get some slaves
3.) Get the man with the whip to make the slaves dig a trench flowing downhill to a river
4.) Line the trench bottom with flagstones, sides with rectangular stones
5.) Cover the top with flagstones, and then bury the rest with a foot or so of mud.

So basically it is all simple, but requires the thought to have sewerage hidden underground and not running down a gutter outside your house. Oh and a man with a whip.

So while some high status houses would have had heating and plumbing (plumb being the latin for lead, romans making all their pipes from lead, hence the word plumbing). Most peasants wouldn't have the technology. There may have been a gradual trickle down but essentially it is as Leanthar says - the rich and royals might have the nice toys. All the average peasant gets is increased taxation.
 

Witch Hunter

Re: How Technologically Advanced Are We?
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2007, 02:02:51 am »
I wish I was a man with a whip...
 

Jearick Hgar

Re: How Technologically Advanced Are We?
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2007, 05:48:32 am »
Quote
Ar7 - 2/18/2007  1:27 AM

The Romans never ever used chariots!


Quote
darkstorme - 2/18/2007  12:10 AM

Well, pi would be the work of Pythagorus, a Greek thinker, as was the hypotenuse.. or at least its work in mathematics.  Circumference existed well before anyone was alive, but again, the Greeks were the first to notice that it invariably divided into the diameter by the same number.  The Romans did NOT, however, have gunpowder.. so any cannons would have had to have been by some other means.. and as the Romans were famous for their use of catapults and chariots, I rather doubt firearms were within their reach, even at the Empire's height.


The first. Uh ya Romans very well had chariots. They also used them all the time, The romans were very famous for their chariots as it was stated. They use dthem in wor, they used them in gladiator battles, and they used them in races. Hate to site Hollywood as an example, but Gladiator is based on ancient rome, and they ahd chariots. And no i don't believe anything Hollywoods says, just that's one place chariots show up in rome history, search the web a bit and you'll see ti there too.

The second. Romans had Cannons too. They traded with the Chinesse A LOT. WHile the chinesse didn't figgure out that gunpowder could be used for war, the romans did and they used it. though admitably they didn't use it much, they still used it.

also never said they invented any of the mathematics things, they didn't need too. The greeks found it, the Romans used it. as far as military geniouses, they really were, they were ontop of the world during their time, and throughout history the dominent  Culture had always had the most militaristic minds, and best man power. they have also had the best technology.America now, Britain a while back, Romans, the Chinesse, Greeks, They've all been on top of the world at one point in time, and they were all famous for what they had during their time.
 

steverimmer

Re: How Technologically Advanced Are We?
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2007, 05:59:57 am »
Quote
Now let's not continue to deprive the Greeks of their due .. Hero, or Heron of Alexandria did indeed invent the first steam engine, but he was Greek. Not Roman. Really, the Greeks did most of the heavy lifting, intellectually speaking! The Romans just knew how to plagiarize


True to a certain extent...but Greece was a central part of the Roman Empire.  The term 'Roman' does not just mean those people from Rome but all citizens of the empire.
 

Stephen_Zuckerman

Re: How Technologically Advanced Are We?
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2007, 06:24:22 am »
The only cannon I have ever heard that the romans had were those legendary fire cannons of Byzantium, if I recall.
 

D Blaze

RE: How Technologically Advanced Are We?
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2007, 07:35:00 am »
Who needs cannons when you have mages with fireballs? Same thing.... remember, most complex machines can easily be replaced by magic, even low-powered magic, thus hindering technological advancement due to the convenience of it.

Cannons? = Mages that cast fireball

Refrigeration? = As L said, magic. Apply the same frost enchantments we place on weapons on the inside of a box instead.

War Chariots pulled by animals? = Use magic to entangle or otherwise lame the animals, traps work too.

Gun Powder? = Who needs guns when you have enchanted arrows that can pierce armor just as effectively? And you already have the Alchemist Fire Bomb already made from fire-based beetles....And depending on how expensive gunpowder is to make it, and it won't likely be of a high grade blast, so it could be a poor man's fireball cuz they can't affort magic or an alchemist.

Plumbing?
Quote
Nibor21 - 2/18/2007  4:31 AM
The technology to create a Roman sewer system is simple. It goes like this:
1.) Get a man with a whip.
2.) Get some slaves
3.) Get the man with the whip to make the slaves dig a trench flowing downhill to a river
4.) Line the trench bottom with flagstones, sides with rectangular stones
5.) Cover the top with flagstones, and then bury the rest with a foot or so of mud.  
So basically it is all simple, but requires the thought to have sewerage hidden underground and not running down a gutter outside your house. Oh and a man with a whip.  So while some high status houses would have had heating and plumbing (plumb being the latin for lead, romans making all their pipes from lead, hence the word plumbing). Most peasants wouldn't have the technology. There may have been a gradual trickle down but essentially it is as Leanthar says - the rich and royals might have the nice toys. All the average peasant gets is increased taxation.


How about you just hire a powerful Mage or Cleric of an Earthen Deity to summon an Earth Elemental to move the dirt and transmute the walls into a harder form of compressed dirt, maybe even solid stone.

And as for running water, how about a simple bit of magic to push, or pull water through pipes? Or a heavy-duty pump enchanted to keep itself running.

These are just small examples....

Some things will be more advanced than others, some things will be less evolved than others.....magic and the power of the gods fills in the rest.
 

Nibor21

RE: How Technologically Advanced Are We?
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2007, 07:45:32 am »
Quote
D Blaze - 2/17/2007  3:35 PM

Who needs cannons when you have mages with fireballs? Same thing.... remember, most complex machines can easily be replaced by magic, even low-powered magic, thus hindering technological advancement due to the convenience of it.



That of course is the point though. The brightest minds go into Magic and they concentrate their research on that. Therefore other technologies do not develop at the same rate they would in a non magical world.

The point of this entire thread though is to try and put the technological assets of layo, thaumalogical or otherwise into a historical context with earth.
 

Ar7

Re: How Technologically Advanced Are We?
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2007, 11:39:43 am »
Quote
Jearick Hgar - 2/18/2007  5:48 AM

The first. Uh ya Romans very well had chariots. They also used them all the time, The romans were very famous for their chariots as it was stated. They use dthem in wor, they used them in gladiator battles, and they used them in races. Hate to site Hollywood as an example, but Gladiator is based on ancient rome, and they ahd chariots. And no i don't believe anything Hollywoods says, just that's one place chariots show up in rome history, search the web a bit and you'll see ti there too.


Two different things here, one is to use chariots during races, triumph parades or gladiator matches, a totally different thing is to use them on the military field. The Romans did not use chariots during battles, it is absolutly absurd when you look at their military strategy, I mean they even treated regular cavalry as support units and often relied on mercenaries in this area.

Even if we imagine that they indeed did use chariots, then where would they get them from? I believe the only people widely using chariots at the time of the Roman Empire were the celts and that combination seems once again absurd.

To finish my post I shall bring a short quote

Quote
Wikipedia

In the Roman Empire, chariots were not used for warfare

 

Jearick Hgar

Re: How Technologically Advanced Are We?
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2007, 01:53:58 pm »
Quote
Ar7 - 2/18/2007  11:39 AM

Quote
Jearick Hgar - 2/18/2007  5:48 AM

The first. Uh ya Romans very well had chariots. They also used them all the time, The romans were very famous for their chariots as it was stated. They use dthem in wor, they used them in gladiator battles, and they used them in races. Hate to site Hollywood as an example, but Gladiator is based on ancient rome, and they ahd chariots. And no i don't believe anything Hollywoods says, just that's one place chariots show up in rome history, search the web a bit and you'll see ti there too.


Two different things here, one is to use chariots during races, triumph parades or gladiator matches, a totally different thing is to use them on the military field. The Romans did not use chariots during battles, it is absolutly absurd when you look at their military strategy, I mean they even treated regular cavalry as support units and often relied on mercenaries in this area.

Even if we imagine that they indeed did use chariots, then where would they get them from? I believe the only people widely using chariots at the time of the Roman Empire were the celts and that combination seems once again absurd.

To finish my post I shall bring a short quote

Quote
Wikipedia

In the Roman Empire, chariots were not used for warfare



I stand corrected for war, but your main arguement was that the Romans in fact did not have Chariots. i used the same source as you and fournd this


Quote
Wikipedia

Roman Empire

The Romans probably borrowed chariot racing from the Etruscans, who would themselves had borrowed it either from the Celts or from the Greeks, but the Romans were also influenced directly by the Greeks especially after they conquered mainland Greece in 146 BC. In the Roman Empire, chariots were not used for warfare, but for chariot racing or for processions, when they could be drawn by as many as ten horses or even by dogs, tigers, or ostriches. There were four teams the red, blue, green, and white team. The main centre of chariot racing was the Circus Maximus, situated in the valley between the Palatine and Aventine Hills in Rome. The track could hold 12 chariots, and the two sides of the track were separated by a raised median termed the spina. Chariot races continued to enjoy great popularity in Byzantine times, in the Hippodrome of Constantinople, even after the Olympic Games had been disbanded, until their decline after the Nika riots in the 6th century.
 

 

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