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Author Topic: Leaning  (Read 329 times)

Gulnyr

Leaning
« on: May 25, 2010, 12:01:02 am »
By my reading of the rules, alignments are a little fuzzy but generally well established and objectively clear.  Bringing in real world concepts is the major factor that confuses understanding of the alignments; this is the capital-E Evil (game concept) vs. lower case-e evil (real world things) problem.  Another more insidious factor is the concept of "leaning" one way or another.  I submit, for consideration and discussion, that any concept or comment of "leaning" should be forgotten and avoided for clarity.

As I said, the alignments are already a little fuzzy.  There is wiggle room in each of the nine alignments.  Further, no character (or god or kingdom or organization or anything else that may have an alignment) is ever going to be a one hundred percent pure paragon of any given alignment; there is always going to be some drift or "leaning" this way or that.  It goes without saying.  

If a True Neutral character (god, kingdom, etc) "leans Lawful", for example, then there are two possibilities: 1) the character (etc) is Neutral and is to be expected to have some opinions that may cause a mild drift from the purest of pure neutrality, requiring no qualification as "leaning" since that just adds unnecessary complication for no gain at all, or 2) the character (etc) is actually Lawful Neutral and the player (writer, etc) chose wrong (and should ask for a correction, make a correction, etc).  

Neutral is actually the driftiest alignment.  On any given day, a Neutral character may "lean" any way.  Claiming any of the other alignments indicates a commitment to those ideals and the courage of those convictions.  A Good character may (and will, really) do something not Good from time to time, but always pursues Good to the fullest of his ability.  That's "alignment rule capital-G" Good, not "lower case-g what my character thinks is good" good.  If your Neutral character "leans Good" then...  Well, actually, that's part of the definition of Neutral:
Quote from: SRD
Such a character thinks of good as better than evil—after all, she would rather have good neighbors and rulers than evil ones. Still, she’s not personally committed to upholding good in any abstract or universal way.

And if your Neutral character actually is committed to "upholding good," then she's Good rather than Neutral.  And "upholding good" would be a general thing, applying to everyone rather than just those preferred by the character, which would be Neutral.  That, incidentally, is why I think many Good characters are actually Neutral, but that's a different topic.

Anyway, skip all the nonsense with statements of "leaning" alignments.  They are unnecessary and make things messy.
 
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Guardian 452

Re: Leaning
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2010, 12:50:50 am »
I know when I first started playing here I thought of Neutral as always striving for a balance... like I pictured a druid would try to do.

But when comming up with the idea of my Dot character I really saw the other side of Neutral. She certainly isnt striving for any balance... LOL.  She just "May or May Not" do whatever is presented to her all depending on her mood, how someone treats her, the alignment of the stars... etc... LOL  :)


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lonnarin

Re: Leaning
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2010, 08:39:01 am »
good vs. Good.  One's a subjective social construct, the other's a game mechanic litmus test of ethos.

One who murders "to do good" can range anywhere between CG to NE.  It all depends on what they're willing to do for what they consider "the greater good".  Often times those who seek the greater good can at best be considered the lesser of two evils.
 

Gulnyr

Re: Leaning
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2010, 02:06:26 pm »
That's a good summary of the G vs g problem, and a great example of why comments on "leaning" should be avoided.  If a Neutral Evil guy (an assassin employed by a Good kingdom, maybe) is doing something for the greater good, does that make him "Neutral Evil leaning Good"?  Of course not.  That's idiotic.  He's just Neutral Evil.  His methods are far more important in determining his alignment than his goal.  His goal makes no difference at all, really.  As anyone who's been on a quest knows, the members of a party can all share a goal but have different ideas of how to get there.  Alignment is about the method, not the end result.
 

Acacea

Re: Leaning
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2010, 03:48:40 pm »
Just about everyone has some kind of noble cause, even if it takes genocide to get there. Very few evil characters are convincing in goals that are themselves outright evil, however entertaining it can be to scream about corruption and baby sacrifice.
 

 

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