Ok, now I'm frustrated

[AeonBlues]

I hope I don't get flamed for this, as what I am hoping for here is so good dialog and some good advice.  I might get flamed.... it's ok, I can deal with that.

I am frustrated because of a pending CDQ.  From day one, I have RP'd my character Nyeaeana to PrC to Shifter.  I came up with his character concept after doing a lot of research and thinking on various character types.  What I decided was that a Shifter would be the most fun for me both in terms of RP and bashing.

I submitted him for PrC Shifter levels almost a month ago, and was approved pending completion of a CDQ.  Now, I fully realize that this is business as usual here on Layonara.  That this kind of Character Development is necessary to enrich our game world.  To be brutally frank though, I will be pleasantly surprised if any CDQ can develop my character more then what I already put into his CDJ http://www.layonara.com/development-journals-discussion/112726-meditations-nyeaeana.html

Further more, nothing in that journal is just  filler writing that didn't take place in game.  I think that working with what  Lore states about the Shifter PrC, combined with the fact that there are no Shifters in our game world, I have done a good job both RPing my character and writing his CDJ.

"A shifter has no form they call their own. Instead, they clothe themselves in whatever shape is most expedient at the time. While others base their identities largely on their external forms, the shifter actually comes closer to their true self through all of their transformations. Of necessity, their sense of self is based not on their outward form, but on their soul, which is truly the only constant about them. It is the inner strength of that soul that enables them to take on any shape and remain themselves within. Only a Druid can become a shifter."

I don't think I am the only one that is having trouble with this PrC, as 2 other players have requested this PrC and also stated in their requests that they don't feel like they need a CDQ.

So what is the problem?  The problem is that for all RP purposes my character is done gaining levels as a Druid.  Mind you, having level 7 druid spells would probably make him a more powerful character through out the rest of his adventuring life.  So this isn't about power building or anything like that.  This is about the good RP standard that I have for him, that he has as a druid, mastered his Improved animal shapes.  He is level 12, and has 190,000 XP to go.

That is a lot of XP to go, but if I go out hunting and participate in a couple of DM events, I will hit level 13  in a week.  I was approved to take the CDQ on march 13th, and I keep having to turn down invitation to adventure, because my CDQ is not scheduled yet.

Now I want to say, I am not sore at the DM who has agreed to run my CDQ, infact I am gratefull.  I fully understand that it is not his problem.  He is busy, he a lot on his agenda.  It's my problem, and I am not writing this to bash or criticize anyone.  I am writing this to vent my frustrations that I am trying to deal with.

If anyone can give me any advice, or constructive thoughts.  If anyone is or has shared my frustrations here, then please respond.

AeonBlues

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

Actually, I know of at least one Shifter - Drogo.

Honestly, the reason the character would need the CDQ is that, prior to actually becoming a Shifter, the character's natural form would still be his own original (in this case elven) form... It would be the "right" one, the one he would revert to. A Shifter, however, HAS no "natural" form... The form is simply whichever one he chooses.

The CDQ revolves around shedding the base physical identity of the base creature. In this case, Nyeaeana shedding the self-identification as an elf.

[Rowana]

Basing an approval on RP is somewhat tricky. It is hard to say with a clear definitive line what is enough to qualify for a PrC and what is not. On anything labeled "CDQ strongly preferred" The tendency would be to give a CDQless PrC approval unless the player had been playing for 2 or 3 months (slow progression) writing a journal entry a week with good depth and then applying.

Part of the problem with some of these PrC requests is that the progression of the levels are going so quickly. When you have characters that are but a couple of weeks old, the question still remains: Will they always hold to this standard or is this just to the PrC/powerbuild.

Looking at it from this stand point (i.e. the approval date of your CDQ v.s waiting for your character to age a few weeks more and then apply) You might see that you would be coming up even time wise. It takes time to write these quests, as I'm sure you can imagine. Add in the line ahead of you for all the other quest requests, and you are really breaking even.

Just some food for thought. Hope it helps.
~row

*edit for clarity*

[AeonBlues]

Thanks Rowana, that does clear things up a bit.

I was basically working under the assumption that there was no way this character could get approved for Shifter levels with out a CDQ.  It is interesting to think that if I had waited to make my proposal until now, I might have gotten an approval to go for it.

It is interesting when you think of druids in the terms of power and game balance.  Druids fluctuate in power quite dramatically though level progression.  I don't think the druid class appeals much to a power gamer, which is good, because I do think that druids require more dedication to good RP then a fighter or a wizard or something.

I think anyone that want shifter levels for power gaming reasons is going to be sorely disillusioned.  A strieght druid is a much more well balanced class, and will hold good form through non epic levels.  The Shifter's greater wild shapes I to III do not offer anything more powerful then what a level 12 druid already has.  When you factor in the loss of spell progression, it is a long and difficult road to becoming an epic level shifter.  I seriously doubt that anyone who is in it for the power gaming will  make it that far.

AeonBlues

[Hellblazer]

But you have to feel a little lucky in this. Because I did a joint cdq with Lex and sonya to find their family (nothing gain at all from that but only RP) I still have a month to wait to be able to apply for a cdq that I have already been approved for.

In total, to get my undead slayer as of now I have been waiting a close to 2 months, still have a month to go to ask a dm to run it, and then I still have to wait for him to write it up and set a date for it.

So basicaly, that could easily be in acouple of months where all I would do is absolutly nothing else than RP with him since I am at 160 K to level.

I guess what I am trying to say here is that, when you get it you will apreciate it just that much more because of all the waiting.

[Falonthas]

umm drogo isnt a shifter

drogo is a druid

shifters have other humanoid forms they have access too that druids do not

and druids have access to other forms shifters do not

even though brian(njord) calls drogo shifter,its not his class
only a rp name cause brian cant say druid
(just kidding rain)

[Hellblazer]

nah he can say it, but he prefer the term shifter as shifting form. He would call the same a wizard that polymoroh if he did not really like that person.

[AeonBlues]

I also just want to add that some restrictions in a shifter build is a very good thing.  If a druid could level freely as a shifter starting at level 6 or 7, then you would get a definite power build at levels 13+

I would strongly argue that no druid should be approved for shifter levels before reaching level 10.

AeonBlues

[Falonthas]

i looked at the shifter when i got close to level 11 just to see if it appealed to me and then i saw my goal for lvl 16 still sitting there

i admit it i was jealous of all the teleporting going on,when after a quest if the orb didnt work i had to stealth out and make that bloody run to point harbor from karthy through the trolls

course then i found the other way  after the fact

shifter is a strange bird
ill take my spells and wait till epic to breath fire in dragon form
but i love my branch
it gets me home when im in a very bad place

there is a shifter that does play every so often
i met her once
faile
but havent seen her since before blood was killed
right before actually

and it does make it hard when you get something into your head and you want to train and not go for the dont learn from npc rule

but shifter is one class where you really have to

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

umm drogo isnt a shifter

drogo is a druid

shifters have other humanoid forms they have access too that druids do not

and druids have access to other forms shifters do not

even though brian(njord) calls drogo shifter,its not his class
only a rp name cause brian cant say druid
(just kidding rain)

Oh, really? Huh. Guess I got a few lines of text mixed up in the pre-logon Player List window. Sorry, mate.

[aragwen]

Just one small thing to clarify.
 
 Now I understand people want to level and progress, but nothing stops you from not gaining XP or even asking for XP removal if you are committed to a specific prestige class.
 
 Prestige classes are something that take time to develop and in my opinion should not be something easily obtained. It requires hard work, by maintain CDT and passing a CDQ. Now I understand that you think nothing more could be added to develop your character to make him a better shifter, but trust me a CDQ could have major impacts on a character.
 
 I know it did have for my own character. Matter of fact the two CDQ's that Jacchri had, to gain his prestige class directly continued in his WLQ. And it maybe did not make him a better Arcane Archer but it shaped the character for sure.
 
 So in my opinion the CDQ is not a waste of time, not that you said it was, but rather a crucial aspect of developing not only your character but also making a prestige class exactly what the name is, prestige or unique.

[Hellblazer]

Well, since I was already approved and with the v3 coming out and everything that came with it, the shift to the new forum and all, I thought it best not to ask more of the Dm team. So I chose not to go out and do more than just Rp so I would not end up taking the time of the DM that could have been spent on something more important. Still I do some small stuff like Lex is on one quest, so I'll end up asking for some XP to be taken out anyway, but the less i make, the less time I have to ask to get it out.

[AeonBlues]

When I was waiting for Cymeran Vrinn's CDQ to undead slayer, the DM who ran that quest did remove some XP, but it was like 3000 xp, and he would not remove more.  That character was frozen from even gather CNRs that required some bashing to get to.

With Nyeaeana, I have decided use some steps..  at 200 K to level he only participates in DM events, gathers CNRs, and hunts with the Farstrider guild members.  When his CDQ is scheduled, it will be much easier for me to manage his level progression with out spending hour after hour just meditating in Hempstead fields.  Which I kind of like doing because it is good RP for him to "master his one true shape, his inner spirit."  While being able to RP with other characters that sit down and chat with him.

and aragwen, I do understand the value of the CDQ.  I know that it will be a tremendous amount of fun.  Cymeran Vrinn's CDQ was epic fun, the most fun I ever had in a DM event.  In Nyeaeana's CDQ I am positive he will be able to do all the fun nature RP stuff that druids can only do when a DM event becomes like PnP.  Where my comments on this come from, is from Lore's description of what a shifter is.  The way it reads makes it sound very much like a personal journey.  I feel that this character has made this journey both in spirit in form.  As far as the personal journey part....

I am sure I will be pleasantly surprised, as DMs here do that to me more often then not.

AeonBlues