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On the nature of alignments

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Cenden Hoqoun:
yeah i knew about the paladin levels but yrah what about roleplay wise?would there god not like them anymore? (sorry i forgot the correct term)and why should a paladin have to be lawfull good, arent they supposed to be likea religous fighter?not a keeper of laws?

Acacea:
Too broad. If that were the case, a CG thief devout to the god of thieves could be termed a paladin...or a NE Fighter of a dark elf god, for that matter. But they aren't. One is a rogue, however charming and good in alignment, the other is evil even though he technically fits the 'religious champion' label. You'd be better off simply leaving it at 'champion.'

A paladin is in service to a god yes, but he is to be in all ways a man of virtue, holding back the tides of evil with the bright light of righteousness and so on as the stereotypical altruistic knight in shining armor holding tradition and so forth while protecting the helpless. Some paladins can be closely associated with the laws themselves, or the enforcers of them - if that's what their deity is about, and the laws themselves are good ones, and they hold always the purpose of laws being created to serve and protect the people above just scribbles of parchment.

As the stereotypical paladin is always in service to a Lawful god or serving as the unyielding knight to a neutral god, losing alignment means falling from grace, losing sight of something that was key to his faith and the divine grace gifted on him - to break the oath that bound them, deviate from the code of their calling. To say the god "doesn't like him anymore" is not quite true, though mortals couldn't guess the feelings of gods anyway, but you might look at it more as the father looking at his wayward son. From the eyes of the ex-paladin it may very well look that way - deserted by the god he has fought for for so long. It's not like he can look at his own alignment. The god is still there, though - it is the paladin who has turned his face away in drifting from the moral/ethical stance that he so zealously stood with before. He has laid down the sword granted by his deity, purposely or no. For most, it will still be there if they ever find their way back and work their way into their deity's graces again, though it would be one of those "your god will know when it is time" things.

When you broaden it from "LG" to "religious fighter in general" it gets confusing, because then everyone clambers to have all religions have paladins, when the class (here, anyway) has some inherent benefits and restrictions that simply don't make sense for most gods. Even Lucindite paladins make little sense here, as far as I am concerned. Necromancy is a school of magic and they protect the Weave - turn undead seems less important than other things they do not have. And because of crazy sorc charisma, only wizards can multiclass freely with paladins, when they would welcome all. Rather than paladins, Lucinda should have spellswords and call it a day, letting them be her religious-fighters-we-would-name-something-else :) Because yes, there are religious fighters... but not all religious fighters are paladins, and most religions are not suited for the latter.

Don't get me wrong, there are different ways and different gods one can play a LG paladin with, and paladins of different deities SHOULD be different in abilities. I like things that deviate from the norm, and wish we could code up some different stuff for them. I usually play neutral or CG, but that doesn't make Paladins of Shadon or Xeen anything more than a joke. :P

On the other hand! I can definitely see someone of Shadon's church starting up an order of cleric/rogue types they called 'Paladins' simply to make fun of and smear real ones. "*looks dubiously* I said I needed a paladin..." "Here I am, baby! Have a drink!" They wouldn't mechanically take the class, though. ;)

Faldred:
According to the base rules, a Paladin who loses favor with their deity becomes a "fighter without bonus feats", losing all class features in the process.  From a roleplay standpoint, it may be possible to leave Paladinhood and still retain any earned benefits, if the reason for leaving the class was "OK" with the deity, i.e., becoming a Cleric, Monk, or certain prestige classes.

The general exception to the "lose all abilities" rule is if the character then becomes a class that has rules for "fallen Paladins", e.g., Blackguard.  In those cases, Paladin levels are "traded in" for equivalent features in the new class.

As for the alignment issue, this dates all the way back to AD&D 1st edition, when the 9-category alignment grid was introduced.  Paladins are the prototypical "knight in shining armor", symbolizing truth, justice, goodness, and the like, and as such have an absolute LG alignment requirement.  Variant rules from Unearthed Arcana allow for Paladins of Honor (LG), Freedom (CG), Tyranny (LE), and Slaughter (CE).

Alternatively, the Divine Champion prestige class allows for Paladin-like abilities for characters of any base class and alignment, as long as they are in tune with the deity of choice.

Okay... pen and paper rules aside, NWN and Layonara work differently.  In NWN, you can freely multiclass Paladin with any other classes, and you do not lose any gained abilities if you change alignment or otherwise perform acts that would strip your Paladin's abilities.  This can lead to otherwise nonsensical builds like Paladin/Bard or Paladin/Assassin.  The only restriction the engine places on you is that you may not level up as a Paladin if your current alignment is not Lawful Good.

In Layonara, the roleplaying restrictions go a little further.  Multiclassing into or out of Paladin is generally a one-way street, and must be done by a successful character development quest (CDQ)*.  Paladins must not only be LG, they must specifically worship one of the five deities who have Paladins: Aeridin, Lucinda, Rofirein, Toran, or Vorax.  Divine Champion is only allowed for Toran or Vorax.  Blackguards are not allowed, and are renamed Unholy Champion (CE only, which explains why they are not allowed).

If you lose Paladinhood in Layonara because of a falling out with your deity (alignement change or otherwise), you are generally expected to NOT use any of your Paladin abilities that require active use (Lay On Hands, spellcasting, Smite Evil, etc.)

*Exception: certain Paladins of Lucina may freely multiclass as certain specialist Wizard

Falonthas:
hmmm paladins of evil gods......must think on this

Crizzan:
A couple thoughts from long term roleplaying.
I can see why it would be hard in a NWN based compaign for a DM to "take a pencil and strike through all paladin abilities" to rewrite a character into a basic fighter and resolve all issues with using paladin abilities after losing them. About the only way that could be done is if a DM, GM, or WM used a module like "+Pretty Good Char Creator" to create a fighter character of the same level with the same name, move over all inventory and journals, and  delete the old paladin character replacing it with the fighter.
In most basic games, losing paladin abilities has far ranging effects on a character. Even if the character did not intend to lose paladinhood, it is usually difficult on the verge of impossible to regain such a status. A paladin is the most trusted and beloved of a god's servants, beyond even what is expected of the clergy. Such a trust is difficult to earn in the first place. How can such a trust be recovered if it is once betrayed? In most games I have joined or hosted, if such a person ever successfully regains paladinhood, there is a loss of levels as well.
Likewise, if ever a paladin falls so far as to become a "blackguard" by whatever name you call it or changes deities except by decision of the deities involved (note that good deities would never agree to give one of their paladins to evil or neutral deities), the paladin does not "transfer levels to the new class." They start over at level one except for the standard fighting abilities they have alrteady accrued. What evil god would trust any ex-paladin enough to grant powers equal to the former powers from the outset? Especially since evil gods are used to dealing with traitors and betrayal. An evil god might promise such powers as an inducement to betray. Once the betrayal occurred, however, all promises would be off. Just how trustworthy do you think evil gods are?
Although evil gods might have something similar in some ways to paladins, I find it hard to picture gods that revel in pain and misery granting any healing power or turning of undead. They would be more likely to grant the power to lay on hands to cause pain and the ability to summon or control undead. Before you argue that any god would want to preserve worshipers, try to think from the evil god's perspective. Which is the truer worshiper: the one that seeks self-preservation or the one that offers his/her body as a sacrifice in pain and blood? Instead of paladins nobly striding forth to smite enemies of the faith, they would be more likely to empower those that use betrayal or, better, trick the enemies of their faith into betraying their own principles.
If a group of paladins could be convinced that they approached a remote monastery that served Calthos while the good monks within were convinced that servants of Calthos approached disguised as paladins of virtue, then someone attacked with range weapons from each direction before any words could be exchanged... Even if the battle ended quickly with those on both sides realizing their error, there would be some battle, some casualties, some paladins and clerics that had erred and needed to atone, if they ever could atone... Such would be the role of true servants of such gods, not the charge into righteous combat with flags waving in staunch support of the god expected of paladins.

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