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Roleplaying Attributes

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Pankoki:
Actually those skills have an established way to counter them. At least the ones that appear in the official 3.5 material.
  For instance, Intimidate:
  "Your Intimidate check is opposed by the target’s modified level check (1d20 + character level or Hit Dice + target’s Wisdom bonus [if any] + target’s modifiers on saves against fear)."
  I can see how this can also be used against a Persuade or Bluff Skill as well, of course the official counter for Bluff is Sense Motive (Which is a WIS based skill), unfortunately we don't have that here in NWN, so I still think we can use the equation above for it. For Taunt the engine uses a Concentration check, and this does make sense to me somewhat, at least on the mechanical aspect of what the Taunt skill does in NWN.

Omega_mnm:
I must say.. excellent! It follows the general mindset I already had for RPing. But it definitely gave me a better view on how those three attributes make up your characters mindset.

Brilliant!

Thank you.

DiegoBastet:
Just had to post here, even so much time after the posting. Sometimes, in all these six years that I'm a GM, is just HARD to put wisdom for some players. Charisma tends to be easier, with clear examples, but wisdom... Pretty good.

Faldred:

--- Quote ---Pankoki - 10/16/2006 10:51 PM
Actually those skills have an established way to counter them. At least the ones that appear in the official 3.5 material.

For instance, Intimidate:

"Your Intimidate check is opposed by the target’s modified level check (1d20 + character level or Hit Dice + target’s Wisdom bonus [if any] + target’s modifiers on saves against fear)."

--- End quote ---


I know this is a late reply, but what I don't like about that is that it makes no allowance for high/low Will saves, and is really only based on WIS directly.  I still like the idea of dropping CL/HD in favor of 2 x base Will save -- I think that's more consistent with how spells and spell-like abilities are dealt with (the 2x modifier is just to balanced the increased DC due to the nature of how skill points are awarded/used).

I do agree that Sense Motive is a good counter to others, especially Bluff.  I had forgotten about Sense Motive, and it is indeed a WIS-based skill.

As for Taunt, I think it comes down to how it is used.  I have no quarrels with using a Concentration check in a combat situation, but in a conversation/RP situation (i.e., someone is trying to needle/goad you), I tend to want to lean toward the modified Will save again -- in this case, it would be acting more like Intimidate.


--- Quote ---DiegoBastet - 2/18/2007  5:59 PM

Just had to post here, even so much time after the posting. Sometimes, in all these six years that I'm a GM, is just HARD to put wisdom for some players. Charisma tends to be easier, with clear examples, but wisdom... Pretty good.
--- End quote ---


One of the best short descriptions of Wisdom I ever read was from the 1st edition AD&D Player's Handbook -- something to the effect of "the author has the intelligence to know that smoking is bad for him, but lacks the wisdom to stop."

Stephen_Zuckerman:

--- Quote ---Faldred - 2/23/2007  9:50 AM


--- Quote ---Pankoki - 10/16/2006 10:51 PM
Actually those skills have an established way to counter them. At least the ones that appear in the official 3.5 material.

For instance, Intimidate:

"Your Intimidate check is opposed by the target’s modified level check (1d20 + character level or Hit Dice + target’s Wisdom bonus [if any] + target’s modifiers on saves against fear)."

--- End quote ---


I know this is a late reply, but what I don't like about that is that it makes no allowance for high/low Will saves, and is really only based on WIS directly.  I still like the idea of dropping CL/HD in favor of 2 x base Will save -- I think that's more consistent with how spells and spell-like abilities are dealt with (the 2x modifier is just to balanced the increased DC due to the nature of how skill points are awarded/used).
--- End quote ---


Let's just fling around some numbers...

Pyyran's Will Save is +6, as his base is +5 and he has a WIS of 12. That would make his modifier, in the system you describe, +12 against Intimidate. Pyyran is level 15. That would mean that his modifier would be +16, and would increase by 1 every level.

If the skill Sense Motive were open, Pyyran would probably have put quite a few points into it... Let's say half of his max ranks (currently 18). So... 9. That'd be +10, total; more if he had put more ranks into it (which would be likely).

Let's compare this to if Pyyran was a Cleric, and his Wisdom was what his DEX is now (24). That would, after a bit of computation, make his Will Save +18. Doubled, that is +36. However, with the D20-System system, it would only be +22. Big difference...

If Pyyran were the type to be intimidating, and maxed his ranks out in Intimidate, that would be 18+CHA: +20. Is an Aeridinite peace-lover of his same level really going to be able to shrug off his intimidations with relative ease? I think not.

The HD+Wis opposed roll fits with the skill system better and more evenly than doubled Will.

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