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Author Topic: Two Pet Hates  (Read 1444 times)

Pseudonym

Two Pet Hates
« on: September 17, 2009, 06:25:44 am »
Okay, maybe hate is too strong a word. The word 'hate' implies a depth of feeling I normally reserve for those things that peeve me in real life, not my chosen leisure activity.

Let's instead call these two pet niggles. Yeah, that sounds better. Less vitriolic by far. Now that I actually sit down to write about it, if it were not for the fact that Mrs Pseudo was watching Glee on TV and there is not much else for me to do, I probably wouldn't even bother. That said,

1.
Please no forced emotes/feelings in character descriptions! Forced emotes have been addressed ad nauseum elsewhere for general roleplay but not (to my knowledge) for character descriptions, I am talking about the info we can read if we right-click (option-click) on your character.

You don't make me feel uncomfortable!

I don't think your gaze pierces me to the very depths of my soul!

Etc, etc.


In short, you don't make me feel anyhting, I decide what my character feels. How 'bout you just provide an objective narrative that describes what I am seeing and I'll fill in the subjective stuff?!?

2.
Helmets
Cowls
Hoods
Veils
Scarves
Niqaabs
Other

So you've chosen to take up the roleplay challenge of a dark elven (half-orc, tiefling, etc) character. Good for you. A really interesting dark history, century upon century of brutality, cruelty, conniving and treachery. All interesting stuff. Hey, lets not forget those pretty nifty mechanical benefits but, of course, you have the compromise of being hated and mistrusted across the world to balance those.

What's your point, you ask?

Be realistic with what another PC would be able to see of you under your all-concealing helmet, hood, veil, etc!! If you can see with enough clarity to fight/spot/listen/bluff/concentrate/search/etc without penalty from the depths of your face covering - there is a fair chance I can see enough of your face to determine skin colour, glowing red eyes, etc!

I will accept my character cannot see ANYTHING of your face (hands/neck/etc) if and when I can see your roleplay reflect that the facial swaddling is so extremely thorough that you are stumbling about the place, three-quarters deaf and blind.

You're playing a dark-elf. Accept the roleplay difficulties that come along with the mechanical benefits. A face/race obscuring hood panacea seems, to me at least, a bit of a copout.

PS. This is not directed at anyone in particular.  :)

Glee is over, i'm off!

Dorganath

Re: Two Pet Hates
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2009, 08:31:56 am »


Ohh...I had a pet niggle once. I named it Fred.  Fun things to have as pets, but they're very picky eaters. It ended up rather lonely though, being at home by itself during the day, as niggles are really rather social things.  So I ended up giving it away to a man who breeds niggles.  I had never seen the thing so happy in my life...

 

geloooo

Re: Two Pet Hates
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2009, 10:24:19 am »
Hehehe! Dark Elves should wear make up to mask the dark skin tone on their faces! Oh and contact lenses too! I had to swallow my pride at the idea of making Ni'haer wear powder that covered his skin. It gets really tedious playing a Dark Elf with so many disguises but it's worth it, what with all the crazy aliases you can think of! Oh and the best part about it is that they won't even know you're a Dark Elf, but they'll get their suspicions. But of course, certain rules apply and certain situations must also be taken into account. Dark Elves can't always hide and run forever. :)

One pet niggle of mine is when other monstrous races are played and aren't treated like the monsters they are, or at least questioned and given suspicious looks. Hehe don't mind me, I just observed all of this back then as Ni'haer progressed. I used to remember instances wherein Ni'haer used to run around with Goblins, Half-Ogres, Tieflings, and Half-Orcs and he would be given the spotlight. Are they not as monstrous as Dark Elves? Sure, Dark Elves are evil to the core but doesn't that lumbering Half-Ogre look as dangerous as he does? Maybe it's because my character is actually Lawful Evil and the Ogre is just Chaotic Neutral. Is it because Ni'haer has shoulder spikes, doesn't that Half-Orc have long and sharp fangs or teeth? How about that Elf that's as mysterious as he is (but somehow lacks his cheeky personality) and wears clothing from head to toe, why isn't that person given the hot seat? Certain circumstances will apply when your character is dealing with a monstrous race, and it all depends on how your character perceives such creatures. Hehe don't mind me! Playing and dealing with Dark Elves is mind-raking! Alright I'm done. :)

EDIT: Mind-raking as it is, it's really fun to take the risks and go through the road less traveled. So make your evil character today! Hehehe Just kidding! Oh and kudos to all the players that interact with monstrous races accordingly! :)

EDIT: Oh and no, I'm not judging how people play their characters, it's just a means to make things far more realistic. :)

EDIT: Gosh I make a lot of edits.
 

ShiffDrgnhrt

Re: Two Pet Hates
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2009, 10:30:33 am »
Contact lenses?!  Are you crazy?  :P
 

geloooo

Re: Two Pet Hates
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2009, 10:31:05 am »
That's actually a good question! Although I won't be able to give you an answer just yet! :)
 

ShiffDrgnhrt

Re: Two Pet Hates
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2009, 10:32:55 am »
Contact lenses are a silly idea for Layo...  That's a very modern invention, unless you like have two small disks of glass in your eyes...

Just wait till you get punched in the face...  :P  "AH!  MY EYES!"
 

geloooo

Re: Two Pet Hates
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2009, 10:34:29 am »
Hehe maybe he can look like "Googles"! :P Hehe yeah the one flaw in Ni'haer's disguise! The eyes! :P
 

mixafix

Re: Two Pet Hates
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2009, 10:34:49 am »
It's as simple as this  - anyone wearing a mask, helmet, cowl, hood, makeup, dodgy moustache, nice sun tan, cardboard cut out, box, or always has their back turned - well they're Dark Elf! .......... simples!
 
 oh and Psued...get Mrs Psued to keep you busier ....please!
 

ShiffDrgnhrt

Re: Two Pet Hates
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2009, 10:36:25 am »
"Goggles" At least has the sense to wear colored glass over her eyes  :P
 

lonnarin

Re: Two Pet Hates
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2009, 11:52:31 am »
What I love is how Half-Giants and Half-Orcs are said to pass for ugly humans, and they are banned from Hempstead.  Does that not mean that large ugly humans are in the same boat?  I half expect a human barbarian with 8 charisma who stands at 6'6" or taller to be banned from the city entrance, and smacked with the ugly stick for his troubles.

As for disguises, in a world of magic and sorcery where fireballs spring from the fingertips and incredible energies animate the dead to walk again, I find the lack of cosmetics ludicrous at best.  If the dark elves were half as insidious or intelligent as everybody makes them out to be, wouldn't they have devised alchemical eyedrops of Sinatra blue eyes and salves of pasty white-boy complexion by now?  It's not like they have fangs, horns sticking out of their heads, stand 8 feet tall or breathe brimstone after all.  They are elves, elves who are black, with red eyes.  Robert Downy Jr. didn't even need magic to convincingly pass as a black man in Tropic Thunder, so why couldn't a dark elf pass for a surface elf WITH the use of magic?  I'll tell you why, metagaming.  People who KNOW they're a dark elf from reading the bio or meeting the character before or seeing the character portrait will utterly refuse to believe any sort of disguise, short of a GM standing right there and sending them a tell to do so.  And even then, you will get the all-knowing emote "Eyes the dark elf skeptically* when there is no physical evidence of dark elfness present.  That or when they appear skeptical of every druid in kitty cat form, when surrounded by identical Hlint kitty cats that they ignore completely.  One of my pet peeves.

And I know there aren't any contact lenses, but if the gnomes can invent a pair of magical spectacles which can detect the invisible, don't you think somebody would have dabbled in SUNGLASSES by now?  Or at least Rose-Tinted John Lennon glasses.
 

Gulnyr

Re: Two Pet Hates
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2009, 12:30:41 pm »
Quote from: Pseudonym
I don't think your gaze pierces me to the very depths of my soul!

I share this one, particularly the part in the quote.  I haven't read any descriptions in a while, but there was a time way back when it seemed like every third character had the soul-piercing gaze written in there.

Quote
Be realistic with what another PC would be able to see of you under your all-concealing helmet, hood, veil, etc!!

A face/race obscuring hood panacea seems, to me at least, a bit of a copout.

Quote from: lonnarin
cosmetics

Without the actual item available in-game, emoting cosmetics seems as much a cop-out as the fully-covering mask to me, except without all the drawbacks of vision problems and such.  I'm not saying it isn't a reasonable way to disguise oneself or that it wouldn't have been invented, only that there's no real cost or effort involved for the PC.  It's just a way for a dark elf's (or other monstrous race character's) player to dump off the (minimal) negatives of that race for a while.

Quote
People who KNOW they're a dark elf from reading the bio or meeting the character before or seeing the character portrait will utterly refuse to believe any sort of disguise, short of a GM standing right there and sending them a tell to do so.  And even then, you will get the all-knowing emote "Eyes the dark elf skeptically* when there is no physical evidence of dark elfness present.

This won't stop until disguises and their detection are built into the game engine.  My hate (it's a little more than a niggle, but probably not hate-hate) expands all the way out as "I hate monstrous races as player characters because of the mess they cause, one way or another, in our current game engine."
 

Nehetsrev

Re: Two Pet Hates
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2009, 12:37:16 pm »
Hehe...  Emwonk's always worn mirrored goggles since his initial inception as an idea in my head to his preset day incarnation in-game.  He can see out just fine, but folks can't see in, and that makes it fun to occasionally emote giving folks a glimpse of his bright, electric blue eyes every once in a while when he takes the goggles off for a second or two to clean them or whatnot.
 
 Err...  getting off-topic a bit, I guess, but there's my two cents on the bit about eye-wear.
 
 Anyhow, not everyone emotes the "all-knowing - "Eyes the darkelf suspiciously" emote."  Some of us actually do try to emote that they don't know for sure who that covered up/disguised stranger really is, at least until they've become rather familiar with said character and somehow said character's true identity becomes revealed to them.
 
 That said, some characters who have a good reason to be paranoid about darkelves have a predisposition to also be very suspicious of anyone who does hide their face/skin/eyes regardless of whether that character actually is a darkelf or other monstruous race, or halfbreed.
 

Script Wrecked

Re: Two Pet Hates
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2009, 12:46:12 pm »
Quote from: lonnarin
What I love is how Half-Giants and Half-Orcs are said to pass for ugly humans, and they are banned from Hempstead.  Does that not mean that large ugly humans are in the same boat?  I half expect a human barbarian with 8 charisma who stands at 6'6" or taller to be banned from the city entrance, and smacked with the ugly stick for his troubles.


They probably would be, but the guard's AI doesn't allow for that, and the player probably walks their character into Hempstead because they're not one of the banned races.

Quote from: lonnarin
As for disguises, in a world of magic and sorcery where fireballs spring from the fingertips and incredible energies animate the dead to walk again, I find the lack of cosmetics ludicrous at best.


I guess that is subject to where you (personally) pitch the technology level of the world. Originally described as a fantasy medieval setting, a lot of people take it to be historically medieval, and add magic to that.

Although a lot of other people also seem to move that to more the modern end of the historical time line, because that's what they're familiar with, and its far more comfortable (they like the idea of running water and taking baths and showers :)).

Quote from: lonnarin
If the dark elves were half as insidious or intelligent as everybody makes them out to be, wouldn't they have devised alchemical eyedrops of Sinatra blue eyes and salves of pasty white-boy complexion by now?


Again, that depends on where the technology level is pitched, and whether alchemy is being fully equated with chemistry.

Quote from: lonnarin
It's not like they have fangs, horns sticking out of their heads, stand 8 feet tall or breathe brimstone after all.  They are elves, elves who are black, with red eyes.  Robert Downy Jr. didn't even need magic to convincingly pass as a black man in Tropic Thunder, so why couldn't a dark elf pass for a surface elf WITH the use of magic?


*cough* Magic would be detectable. ;)

Quote from: lonnarin
I'll tell you why, metagaming.  People who KNOW they're a dark elf from reading the bio or meeting the character before or seeing the character portrait will utterly refuse to believe any sort of disguise, short of a GM standing right there and sending them a tell to do so.  And even then, you will get the all-knowing emote "Eyes the dark elf skeptically* when there is no physical evidence of dark elfness present.  That or when they appear skeptical of every druid in kitty cat form, when surrounded by identical Hlint kitty cats that they ignore completely.  One of my pet peeves.


Mine too!

Part of the problem is no-one likes to be played for a fool, and another is the plausibility of mechanism used to disguise the character, viz, the viability of hoods, whether the character is saying perfect makeup where as the other person is saying not at that (un-mutually agreed) technology level, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

Perhaps dark elves shouldn't be submitted publicly, nor have a dark elvish name, nor a dark elvish portrait, and if you were allowing perfect non-smearing water resistant makeup, nor dark elvish skin. There would be nothing to meta, their disguise perfect (they could even have a widget to set their skin black when they wanted to be natural).

The only problem then is, are they just a regular elf?

*shrugs*

Regards,

Script Wrecked.
 

Acacea

Re: Two Pet Hates
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2009, 03:27:45 pm »
The races banned from Hempstead were assumed to be treated as monstrous races to the rest of the world and treated with fear or disdain or hatred where applicable. The actual sign created was because it is a starting area and to enforce what was an attempt at representing a much more global distrust (with exceptions - which are exceptions and not the rule), which obviously didn't work.

I still strongly believe that banning half races was a mistake but it stands and backstory and responsibility for it has been already made retroactively... and having occurred in other areas beside the single city. Either way, they're all going to die anyway.

As far as the technology level goes, it is easy to say no to things because one is stuck on the RL dark ages as a setting, but if you take any historical setting and add magic into the mix, you have upped the technology level. You have to either scale back your era or accept that capabilities exceed your very limited perception of capabilities.
 

Eorendil

Re: Two Pet Hates
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2009, 04:40:31 pm »
Hey, I've half expected from time to time if someone would try and kick Caighd out of Hempstead... I mean, given his size and skin color... he could BE a half dark elf/half ogre or giant.
 

SteveMaurer

Re: Two Pet Hates
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2009, 04:45:42 pm »
Quote from: lonnarin
What I love is how Half-Giants and Half-Orcs are said to pass for ugly humans, and they are banned from Hempstead.  Does that not mean that large ugly humans are in the same boat?

I play a half-ogre.  There is no way he could ever be mistaken for a human.   Not even the ugliest human imaginable.   From the lore, half-ogres are huge, hulking, and have gray skin.   Just take a look at him.


Quote from: lonnarin
As for disguises, in a world of magic and sorcery where fireballs spring from the fingertips and incredible energies animate the dead to walk again, I find the lack of cosmetics ludicrous at best.  If the dark elves were half as insidious or intelligent as everybody makes them out to be, wouldn't they have devised alchemical eyedrops of Sinatra blue eyes and salves of pasty white-boy complexion by now?

While this is not impossible, and the loremaster has approved of at least one character who has done this (with a disguise so complete, it even extends to metagaming), let me respond by asking you this: how convincing do you find a "blackface comedian"?

And that is the exact analogy to make.  Because it's not just the makeup, I'm talking about here.    No normal dark elf would demean himself by actually trying to pass as a surface traitor.   Ever.    It would be something akin to a southern 1930s KKK klansman trying to pass himself off as black.   They might do it as a joke - a mockery, like blackface, as vicious comedy, but not for real.    So actual realistic makeup would not be be a technology any dark elf would learn, absent some other compelling reason to develop such a disguise.

And no matter what, the red glowy eyes, are kind-of a giveaway.


Quote from: lonnarin
(W)hy couldn't a dark elf pass for a surface elf WITH the use of magic?  I'll tell you why, metagaming.  People who KNOW they're a dark elf from reading the bio or meeting the character before or seeing the character portrait will utterly refuse to believe any sort of disguise, short of a GM standing right there and sending them a tell to do so.

Magic is even worse as a disguise, since magicians are sensitive to it, and may very well be able to understand what is being done with a simple Spellcraft check.

In fact, to use the definition that the Avlis authors like to describe, I've seen much more "cheesing" than metagaming.    ("Cheesing", by their definition, is exactly what the Original Post here is describing - putting the viewer's supposed reaction as a fundamental part of one's character description.)  Almost no in-game dark elves have plausible disguises.   There are a few I've seen, but they're rare.


Quote from: lonnarin
And even then, you will get the all-knowing emote "Eyes the dark elf skeptically* when there is no physical evidence of dark elfness present.

Hmmm.... Let's use an analogy.   *The bank teller eyes the man with the scarf tied around his face skeptically*

Or the crook who yelled "No you didn't recognize me" in court.


Quote from: lonnarin
And I know there aren't any contact lenses, but if the gnomes can invent a pair of magical spectacles which can detect the invisible, don't you think somebody would have dabbled in SUNGLASSES by now?  Or at least Rose-Tinted John Lennon glasses.

You have a point, at least as far as deep-gnomes are concerned.  Those little gem polisher devotees of Beryl should all have dark glasses for the surface.   And it doesn't seem quite reasonable that they'd all have to waste a feat getting them either.    But then again, that might be better than draconian behavior restrictions that might be otherwise imposed on them by the world team to compensate for their advantages.
 

Link092

Re: Two Pet Hates
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2009, 07:27:28 pm »
I hate these topics because they turn into He said she said things, but Imma drop in my two cents...



I can completely understand where everyone is coming from, but I think that one thing is made rather clear. Every character, Dark elf or otherwise, is unique... they may or may not represent their race. they may or may not share mainstream ideas. (On a side note, no one questions a hooded human corathite, Who are not supposed to show their faces period, from my understanding.) With that being said, I also know that There needs to be a well written biography that is APPROVED, but is still something to consider nonetheless.

Also, to Gunlyr, if it makes you feel better, My dark elves haven't really associated with any others for some time now, and if they have, it was for a small amount of time.... :p

As for the disguise part, Yeah, I get it... there is no active disguise system. But there is also a ton of cultures and customs that you, as a "resident of Layonara" are NOT aware of. I'm not saying go make stuff up, but I've read a few bios that have been flagged for ed and have been approved where a culture akin to that of RL cultures have been used. Some cultures may be known to refuse to show any skin (unlike the plethora of women that run about in-game in miniskirts and a bra). Quite simply, some might prefer to actually wear lotsa clothes. Maybe they are from a much hotter climate? I Know well the difference temperature makes, and going from one region where the average high in the afternoon is over 10 degrees different from that in a region that stays about 20 degrees Celsius. 10 degrees is a big friggin difference, especially when your used to the hotter weather... Walking around in a wool coat and wearing long johns under your jeans in the summer or wearing absolutely nothing but yer underpants and a undershirt in the winter (my comparison of Germany's winters to North Carolina's winters...)

and take this picture for example...

Yeah, they don't have their hoods up, but if they wanted, they could pass you and you'd never see their face. Yeah, they might not be good spotters and might fail a search check, but they haven't become invalids.

And just for good measure, I'd like to point out that there are "non-visible" NPCs and commoners. All of a sudden, I stick out so much more than any other vagrant on the roads of some ragamuffin wondering along, or even some spread out mercenaries or hunters? You know, if you think the PC is a dark elf, you could always just leave him/her alone or go your merry way. heck, run and cry for help maybe? I mean really, If Idoran even began to get an inkling of an idea that some one was a dark elf, he would leave, immediately, and beg glad he is alive, even if they are 4 levels lower than him. Because if that was some NPC dark elf, you might very well get blasted by a hell ball twenty times over just for greeting him and telling him what lovely white hair he/she has.





Much love. :D


~ Link092





EDIT: PS: Steve, your Half-Ogre isn't a Half-Orc, so that only covers half of that bit of Lonns point...   >.>'
 

Acacea

Re: Two Pet Hates
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2009, 07:31:46 pm »
The gnomes inventing sunglasses comment immediately made me think of the whole of the [strike]Underdark[/strike] Deep running around like the more modern image of some vampires with the long coats, death pale skin and shades.

I don't know why, but it was really funny to me for some reason... Either you're a dark elf or you're a vampire and I don't break fast with either of them! *shakes fist*
 

jrizz

Re: Two Pet Hates
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2009, 07:39:33 pm »
Pet hate number one.

Intimidate checks with very little RP or sense behind them.

And on that note we have never settled what is the counter roll of intimidate check. A pure will check does not make much sense.
 

Acacea

Re: Two Pet Hates
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2009, 07:51:19 pm »
Intimidate has a pretty standard counter that is a modified level check + wis bonus + any saves against fear. Has that changed?
 

 

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