Author Topic: Iron Clad - Discussion (Read 275 times)

Eorendil · « **on:** November 04, 2006, 02:42:59 pm »

The Iron Clad quest has been placed in a timebubble and as such things discussed in this thread will not be immediately available for IC knowledge of characters not involved in the quest.
This thread is for IC discussion of events as well as planning of the "next step." No actual actions requiring the characters to move from their current location will be taken though spells could be cast and questions asked or minor actions taken. Consider this a "campfire talk/planning" scenario.
Additionally, at this time I'm open to moving the quest to a different day/time to accommodate those involved.

Nehetsrev · « **Reply #1 on:** November 04, 2006, 04:12:21 pm »

//OOC - First notes: Days & Times that will work for both myself (Melanna) and my wife (Elohanna):
Thursday: 9:00am - Midnight (15:00 - 06:00 GMT)
Friday: 9:00am - Midnight (15:00 - 06:00 GMT)
Saturday - Wednesday: 9:00am - 1:00pm CT (15:00 - 19:00 GMT)

Perhaps if everyone involved in the quest so far can post their available times a better time can be arranged by Miera for all of us.
-------------------------------------------------------------

*Melanna reluctantly looks to the group gathered not far off as they endlessly discuss the dark gem, it's powers, the captured Pyyran, and what might be done to reclaim Haven. She simply sits near the shore and continues to listen, not yet ready to step up and take command again.*

Stephen_Zuckerman · « **Reply #2 on:** November 04, 2006, 04:45:05 pm »

//Times for me? Monday and Wednesday any time after 3:45 PM EST, then possibly Thursday at the same time, and maybe Friday from about 2 PM EST on.

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*Pyyran waits in the makeshift cell, down in the Haven Mines, his rescuer Uilliam Seekspeace beside him... For now, all he can do is wait for a gap in the gnolls' guard shifts, or perhaps for the ogres he is held with to awaken... At least, however, his considerable injuries sustained in his capture and subsequent torture have been mostly healed thanks to Uilliam's potions.*

DMOE · « **Reply #3 on:** November 05, 2006, 04:55:11 am »

//Ideal times for me would be the following
Monday to Thursday
7.30-11pm GMT (2.30-6pm EST)
Saturday
12pm-4pm and 7.30-11pm GMT (7-11am and 2.30-6pm EST)
Sunday
7.30pm-11pm GMT (2.30-6pm EST)
This maybe subject to change as I may shortly have a job at the weekend.

Laldiien · « **Reply #4 on:** November 06, 2006, 08:51:56 am »

Sort of liking the time it was being held previously. Having it on the weekend means not having to worry about time issues, at least for me. If it's moved to a Weekday, I am not available Mondays or Thursdays. I am available Tues, Wed, Fridays after 17:00EST, Saturdays & Sundays all day.

**Galen stands beside the group, wanting to shout "The gem is the cause, I FEEL IT!", but instead drinks from his canteen, and looks agitated.

Guardian 452 · « **Reply #5 on:** November 06, 2006, 09:32:32 am »

Id love to get Danny back into this series.

but my only windows are

1 PM - 5 PM CST

9 PM - 2 AM CST

Weekends are right out!!! That's family time... I get maybe 1 saturday a month that I can play here so I dont want to plan for anythng then.

Desicardo · « **Reply #6 on:** November 06, 2006, 10:19:19 am »

Weekends in current timeslot are best for me, though mornings EST would work also as long as we start around 8:00 a.m. I need to leave for work around 1:00 EST so need to definitely be done by then.

**Tadashi carefully pens notes to Captain Garent, Lt. Jursen, the captain of the guard at Ft. Hope, and Spellgard informing them that Haven has fallen and the status of Lord Rodar and the keep is not yet known. Sending the messages by Falcon, he then sits and draws on his studies of tactics and strategy to formulate several battle options to present to the group.

Desicardo · « **Reply #7 on:** November 07, 2006, 08:51:57 pm »

**Tadashi sits and draws a rough map of Haven in the dirt. After staring at it for a time, he beings to draw some lines and markings, wipes them out and redraws them differently. Several revisions later, he begins to smile*

This could work. Minimal risk of collateral damage to the townfolk and their dwellings. Minimal risk to those in our party, and an opportunity to find out more about the black stones. It has potential.

*calling out to the rest of the assembled group* Who here has spells or items that are area effective? Ice storms, fireballs, firebombs, chain lightning, and that sort?

lolli_gagged · « **Reply #8 on:** November 17, 2006, 07:48:41 pm »

Having seen Tadashi's drawings in the dirt I am thinking we should further explore the potential for this option. Perhaps Tadashi might pen the plan for more to see. Minimal damage to residents and dwellings is a good thing. If we have enough spells of the type mentioned I would love to further explore this.

Aiek

Desicardo · « **Reply #9 on:** November 17, 2006, 11:56:02 pm »

*Tadashi draws a rough map of Haven in the dirt*
This is my plan
Phase one: send a couple people in and get the gate guards attention and draw them out into an ambush. Try to keep one of the gnolls alive to interogate to find out where the black stones are coming from. Take their stones for use in the next phase.

Phase two: Send 3 people into town with the captured stones with the goal of securing the overlook ridge on the hill. The top and bottom of the climb up should be trapped to slow gnolls from coming up to take it back.

Phase three: With the ridge secured, the 3 start taking sniping shots at the gnolls in town. This should bring them all to the base of the hill to try and get to the snipers. Have one of the three give a howl as a signal the gnolls are attacking. The rest of the party then rushes in and takes the south road and uses area effect spells and weapons to take out as many of the bunched up gnolls at the base of the hill as we can fast. Our people will be out of harms way on the hill and the gnolls will be vulnerable.

By using speed of attack, we will not let them have time to organize a defense and by taking out the majority of the defenders in one large attack, the rest should mop up with minimal risk. The key will be a fast and devestating attack to take away their numbers and weapons advantage. This will also pull gnolls away from houses minimizing the risk and damage to innocents and their property.

This is the plan of Tadashi
*bows*

DMOE · « **Reply #10 on:** November 18, 2006, 12:02:57 am »

*Muireann yawns*
I'll just fry em as I see them

Nehetsrev · « **Reply #11 on:** November 18, 2006, 06:10:55 am »

*Melanna stands and move back to listen to Tadashi' plan, then with afrown begins to point out problems with it*

"Well, first off I see a couple problems with this plan. One, we don't know enough about the stones to assume they won't affect our minds somehow. Two, Gnolls can climb every bit as good as whoever you send to take that overlook, so anyone going up there is bound to fail due to the sheer numbers they'll have to face both on their way there, and once they're in position, assuming they can even make it that far. Three, your plan assumes we'll be able to see all of the gnolls as they're waiting to climb at the base of the hill, which if you recall their stones make them invisible unless they're actually attacking. There are hundreds of gnolls, perhaps even over a thousand, now occupying Haven and the mines, and there are only a handful of us.

I think a better plan, at least for the moment, would be to go back into the forest and ask Glurgle and the ogres with him to come back and help here. If nothing else, we can position the ogres to keep further Gnoll reinforcements from ariving or use them to draw out the Gnolls in fewer numbers that we might be able to manage. Perhaps another team can go invisibly with Uilliam to retrieve our comrade from where he's imprisoned while this is being done. After he's free the team might even explore further to see if they can find the leaders of the Gnolls or more information about their plans here. We simply need to know more before we can effectively proceed against a threat of this magnitude. It may not even be a bad idea to seek other reinforcements of our own from Hlint or some other place like it."

Desicardo · « **Reply #12 on:** November 18, 2006, 08:01:01 pm »

As stated in the first part of the plan, we attempt to capture one of the gnolls for interogation to learn more about the nature and source of the stones. If we move quickly, the exposure time will be limited and risks minimized. As to gnolls being able to climb, yes they can.. one at a time just as any of us do and with a traps placed at top and bottom as suggested, it will slow them down significantly. Part three of the plan is not a delayed reaction but a swift strike once those on the hill start taking shots so at best only a few gnolls will have time to make the climb and once the attack has started, those on the hill can defend against those that do survive the climb. Also spells and weapons that are area effect do not discriminate by visibility. Any in range are hit visible or not so the invisibility advantage is taken away. By waiting further we are giving them time to organize a defense and dig in, doing who knows what inside the houses of those we call friends. As a scholar cleric of the Lord of Battle, I know that we cannot meet brute force with brute force and succeed. We must use the advantages we have against their weaknesses or we will fall to the last one of us, a heroic death to be sure, but unnecessary. I look to those assambled and I see more than enough capability to carry out this plan with minimal risk. Any plan of battle will have some element of risk, whether with a larger force, ogre help, or with just us. The idea is to minimize the risk with smart planning, clean execution, and cooperation. The time we waste arguing and debating is time the enemy is spending setting up defenses and becoming further entrenched. Speed and surprise are our greatest strengths and should not be given up so lightly in favor trying to fight strength against strength.

Nehetsrev · « **Reply #13 on:** November 19, 2006, 12:50:03 am »

I thought we had settled this? Had we not? Your plan assumes an enemy vast in number will throw it's full force at whoever we send up to the overlook. It is foolishiness, plain and simple. These Gnolls are not that stupid. Yes, we may use the first part of your plan and attempt to capture a live Gnoll to interrogate, though I don't think anyone here speaks Gnoll so even that seems almost pointless. But we will not use the rest of your plan and send a part of our group to a place where they'd be easilly cut off, surrounded, and killed, regardless of how well you think they could defend and how many foes you assume would gather into a nice little cluster to be hit with spells. Why do you continue to cling to this fruitless and foolish plan? I agree we need to use our resources wisely, but this plan is not wise as has been repeatedly pointed out by myself and others among us.

Desicardo · « **Reply #14 on:** November 19, 2006, 04:02:40 pm »

And your option is to do nothing and wait for others to come fight our battles and clean up our mess. *shakes his head* How honorable. *sighs* As you wish leader. *Tadashi goes to find a tree by the waters edge to sit under with his back to the water*

Laldiien · « **Reply #15 on:** November 19, 2006, 04:31:19 pm »

*in a plactating voice* Tadashi, don't worry if she doesn't agree. Make your case, make it logical, cogent and as close to foolproof as possible. You don't have to convince her. You have to convince others to follow you. A true leader will lead by example and by conviction, not just because they stomp their feet and shout for attention.
I don't know if your plan will succeed or not, but so far, I've not heard any better. I've heard no worse either.

*to Melanna* Please don't think I am challenging you. If you are so fervently opposed to Tadashi's plan, come up with one or modify his to your liking. Rather than use your vast combat experience to tear down an idea, use it to improve the plan. Mold it. Make it work. You are in command not out of fear, but out of respect. Show us why.

*goes back examining the tattoo's on Vin's back*

//sorry for any formatting issues. Dashed this out on my Blackberry and I won't get to the forum until the edit timer expires.

Nehetsrev · « **Reply #16 on:** November 19, 2006, 09:56:09 pm »

*sighs with exasperation before beggining once more with a bit of fire and determination behind her eyes and icey voice*

"If it is true that you all follow me out of respect, then I should not have to raise my voice over the voices of almost all of you speaking at once. I should not have to repeatedly argue over things that have already been pointed out as hopelessly flawed. If you were respectfully listening, you would have heard that I do offer a plan other than doing nothing and waiting for others to come fight our battles. If you were listening you would have heard me say that I believe our best plan for the moment is to find out all we can about the enemy now occupying Haven and the mines. Is knowing more about one's enemy, where their defenses are, where their leaders are, where their weaknesses are, really just sitting around doing nothing to you all? Is actively seeking to utilize additional forces that may be at our disposal really such an unwise waste to you? Even when it could mean the difference between freeing Haven and losing hopelessly against odds we alone cannot possibly face? I have pressented the facts as they have been made apparent to me. I have proposed learning more before setting to any course unprepared, and for this I am called a poor leader by some. How can we expect to make any sort of reasonable plan when we do not know enough about what we face? Yet you all would like me to make a plan and commit to it right here on this spot. But then I have planned haven't I? I've planned to find out more, I've planned to bolster our resources and use them more effectively. Is it as specific and single-minded as Tadashi's plan? No. Why not? Because we do not know enough to make specific plans yet.

I didn't ask a single one of you to be here. Not one. Not even my good friend Elohanna is here at my request, she came of her own accord. Why am I in command here? Do any of you know? I'll tell you why. Because months ago I met a friendly Ogre who said he and some other Ogres didn't want to fight us anymore. I made a deal with the Ogre, and he showed himself honorable to keep it at great risk to himself. I continued to meet with him and an idea was born that he and I both believed would benefit both the Ogres and Haven. I persisted, despite being ridiculed constantly for even daring to believe that an Ogre could be peaceful and honorable in it's dealings. I petitioned for months on end just to gain audience with Lord Rodor and present my idea to him. He was skeptical but he -listened- to my idea, and he gave me charge to further prove the Ogres as trustworthy, and that's when some of you became involved. Not by my choice, mind you, but by his, yet I have not disputed his choice. Lord Rodor has confidence enough that he gave me permission to see the plan put in motion, and he gave me charge over it. That is why I am in command here. What reason do any of you have to be here? Hmm? Yet here you all are, arguing every thing I say, or just ignoring it. Perhaps that's my fault for not being more firm in my leadership to begin with. Perhaps if I had stuck with my instincts and forced a portion of you to remain and guard Haven when we set out with the Ogres, Haven would not have fallen. Or perhaps it wouldn't have made any difference.

Yet it's not your reputations here on the line. It's not your dream that's turned sour here. I put my life on the line to serve the people of this land, to serve each and every one of you, to the best of my ability and now it's my honor that is questioned. You all can walk away from this, if you choose, but I can not, nor would I want to, even though it would be far easier to do then dealing with you all has been so far.

Now with that said, I am open to plans, but they must be sound plans. They must be plans that take into account that our enemy is near a thousand strong if not more, because a good tactician always plans for the worst odds. They must take into account that our enemy has the advantage of invisibility more or less at will. They must take into account that the enemy is in a defensive position, and that it is far easier to defend than to attack. They must take into acount that our enemy, despite having heads like dogs, are actually quite cunning, and will likely not make mistakes like commiting more of their forces than nescessary to deal with the small threat that we realisticly pose to them with our current number and resources.

Seriously, how many Gnolls do you think one spell like say, a fireball, could hit even if they were clustered together? Maybe 30-40? And is one fireball likely to kill those 30-40 in one shot? I doubt it. So how many such spells do our own mages have at their disposal before they need to rest? Hmm? Maybe 8-10 such spells each? Do you honestly think that even if everything went exactly to plan we could defeat the entire occupying force with one assualt of just we alone? And what happens when the spells are run out? Then what do we do? What happens if the Gnolls send a squad invisibly to infiltrate past our fighters and target our mages? Hmm? Yet because I simply do not believe we should rely on just ourselves, it's assumed I don't want to liberate Haven, that I want to 'sit and do nothing'. I have been fighting for the liberation of Haven since before any of us even knew of the Gnoll threat the was lurking out in the Sielwood and now holds Haven. Since before any of you even got involved.

We have a road here, it leads to Spellguard. There are lots of mages there who just might help us if we ask them to. There's a trail that goes off the road into the woods too, at the end of which are likely to still be found a group of Ogres who may also be willing to help us if we ask them to. Is it really so foolish to ask for help? If we bring more help than we need and easilly secure a victory, isn't that better than rushing in with too little to succeed and realizing our error as we die? Hmm? Is what I propose really such a bad plan? Does anyone here have a better plan than either mine or Tadashi's? Please, let's hear it if you do.

DMOE · « **Reply #17 on:** November 21, 2006, 09:56:18 am »

*Muireann yawns and stretches slighty*
Well actually the Lord which you speak of asked for people to bear witness to your talking ogre and investigate the missing weapons...Yes...he said you could put your 'plan' in motion but at NO point do I remember him telling you that you were in charge of us...so firstly let's get your underwear out of a twist.....Your not the great white leader....Yes it is your plan but if you are to have a cat in hell's chance of it working you need us....Right now...more than we need you. So stop throwing a tantrum lady. Oh and I'd like to have seen you 'force' any of us to do anything.
Having said that...How many times must we poke holes in your plan before you actually come back with a new one Tadashi? Your plan isn't going to work....period...We've told you why and you implied we are cowards....Fine....at least I'm an intelligent and alive coward....you can be brave and dead for me.
We do need to find out more intelligence from Haven and we also need to find out more about what the stones do....The Drow gave a very nice history lesson of where they come from and managed to work out how to activate one, cursing himself in the process I might add but didn't actually tell us how they work.

Nehetsrev · « **Reply #18 on:** November 21, 2006, 10:59:14 am »

*turning her tongue onto Muireann*

"You are hardly one to speak ill of throwing tantrums Muireann. After all, wasn't it one of your tantrums that called down a Hammer of the Gods upon one of our number not so long ago, causing him to depart? Aside from that, isn't your own goddess most well known for her quick temper and ship sinking tantrums? Honestly, if I'm throwing at tantrum you'd think Mist would be pleased. Truth be told Muireann, it is not I who needs any of you, it is the people of Mistone who need all of us to work together to reclaim Haven. While I know it's against your nature to follow in any sense of the word, perhaps you could devote yourself to causing chaos amidst the camp of our enemy rather than our own camp? Maybe then if we succeed your goddess will for once go down in history in a more positive light and you might be exalted for doing her some credit. Then again, it's evident Mist thinks little of her own reputation, except as the goddess of tantrums. If I've made you angry with what I've said about yourself and your goddess, go ahead and call down your worst magics upon me if you like, you'll only prove my point further."

*looking to everyone once more*

"Now, it's obvious this effort is going to need good leadership if it's to succeed. If any of you do not wish me to lead and think you can do a better job, then step up now and take command, otherwise get in line and start following without so much dispute in favor of your own personal agendas. The bottom line is I'm here to serve the people by liberating Haven, and I don't really care how it's done, as long as it is successfully done with as little risk of failure or loss as possible."

DMOE · « **Reply #19 on:** November 21, 2006, 11:16:03 am »

*shrugs*
Nope, that wasn't a tantrum....I was quite calm and cold when I dealt with him thank you and I'd like to point out that others told him to stop insulting me so he had ample warning....He made his choice to continue and to leave.
Yes....My Lady has a quick and vengeful temper but her storms are hardly tantrums....Feel free to call them that though if you wish....Of course she may decided to demonstrate exactly what they are next time you sail....You do sail don't you? *grins slightly* Why does my Lady need a better reputation? She is what she is and I honor her every day so hardly need to worry about this venture bringing her honor.
Now....If someone does actually come up with a half decent plan...I'd be fairly inclined to follow it but please stop and try not to confuse me with someone who actually gives a monkies about the people of Mistone. I do things for my own reasons and if they happen to coincide with yours then fine but please, please don't try the 'greater good' stuff on me...it's pointless and well a little boring.