The World of Layonara
The NWN Persistent World => Server Rules => Topic started by: Leanthar on January 31, 2006, 11:03:51 am
-
I want to let everybody know (though I thought it was pretty obvious--but I guess not) that you should not be going in to a temple and doing things like in this album http://www.layonaraonline.com/forums/photos/photo-thumbnails.asp?al... (http://../photos/photo-thumbnails.asp?albumid=392). This would never happen if there was a GM on and running a quest and as such should not happen when we are not around. This is an abuse of the AI system (IE. nothing we can do when there is not a GM around).
There will most certainly be dire consequences for this character (character--not player), as well the GM will be speaking to anybody we see doing silly things like this.
-
Heh, that actually was a bit on purpose. Taislin's life has been lacking some spice, and as such, in his vast halfling wisdom, he decided to do something that would make him have some fun. It was not my intent to abuse the AI system, I just felt like doing something halflingly stupid. If it's your wish, I promise I won't do it again. I'm not trying, in any way, to get you not to punish my character, just saying so that I don't start a small flame war with it.
-
Halfling tired of living? I am not trying to think out punishments here, but death is a logical conclusion when one spits on the altar in the temple. I would like to see a god that would let a person walk the land after this. And if the word spreads on Layonara, I imagine what other characters will think of Mist, atleast I know what the Corath people will think.
This action can have serious IC concequences.
-
If Amaduena finds out IC about the incident she will fully support the Lady and her temple in punishing the offender (character).
-
///while fully expecting Taislin to catch hell and fury (mostly by agents of Mist sent to exact punishment, rather than by the god herself), Cole would laugh hard if he heard what Tailsin did. He would probably laugh until he cried. The joke of "the halfling that spit on Mist's alter" would quickly spread across Leilon, and all but the most devout of Mist would laugh at the "wisdom of a halfling." Smooth move, Halfling. Piss off the most unpredicatable and ferocious god up there. Good luck, little chap. You're going to need it. And I wouldn't suggest ever getting on a boat again...
-
Just to play devil's advocate - you could look at it a little differently. Since Mist is so unpredictable she may just like the fact that Taislin annointed her altar with some of his own water (his spit). She may just see that he was just wanting her attention and make him one of her priests. Then again - maybe not.
-
Quote: Varnart - Posted 1/31/2006 3:16 PM
"Heh, that actually was a bit on purpose. Taislin's life has been lacking some spice, and as such, in his vast halfling wisdom, he decided to do something that would make him have some fun. It was not my intent to abuse the AI system, I just felt like doing something halflingly stupid. If it's your wish, I promise I won't do it again. I'm not trying, in any way, to get you not to punish my character, just saying so that I don't start a small flame war with it." End Quote:
The problem isn't that you disrespected a god, or that you did it in her own temple, or that you felt like spicing up your characters life. It's that you did it in a setting that allowed for no action to be taken. No GM was present thus the clerics of Mist who were in the Temple could do nothing to stop you and no PCs were around to give you a lecture (since PvP is illeagal).
See, had you felt like giving it some good RP, you could have asked for a GM to be present while you went about your disrespectful ritual. As it would have been, Taislin would probably have been killed or dismemberd, however now it gets complicated because we have to respond in a late fashion. Needless to say, you will probably have a bullseye target on your back for a while. Oh... and what Cole said... don't take boats...
-
"...The problem isn't that you disrespected a god, or that you did it in her own temple, or that you felt like spicing up your characters life. It's that you did it in a setting that allowed for no action to be taken. No GM was present thus the clerics of Mist who were in the Temple could do nothing to stop you and no PCs were around to give you a lecture (since PvP is illeagal)..."
That is exactly correct and stated better than I stated it, thank you. I don't mind the disrepecting of deities at all (but be prepared for the deities wrath to be unleashed), it is when it is done in that fashion when it becomes a problem.
-
someone tell me WHY this server doesn't have PvP? :)
-
Eloyn - 2/1/2006 6:40 PM someone tell me WHY this server doesn't have PvP? :)
Pretty simple really. As much as we want to get Layonara Online as close to a PnP game as possible, it can't be done. There can't be GMs watching everything all the time, and as the record has shown, even though Layonara draws tons of great players we still get bad eggs from time to time.
Point is, there are some players who are just too immature to be granted PvP, thus it has been banned for all (unless sanctioned by a GM). If we had open PvP we would probably have players killing each other pell mell. It would pretty much null the point of many subraces and deities that are able to be worshiped by PCs.
-
actually if any clerics of mist hear about this i think it would be acceptable for them to challenge Taislin to a duel in the Arena, and of course if he declines, he's a yellow bellied coward
-
Thunder Pants - 2/1/2006 7:09 PM
actually if any clerics of mist hear about this i think it would be acceptable for them to challenge Taislin to a duel in the Arena, and of course if he declines, he's a yellow bellied coward
My ears are tingling. ;)
-
CDQ anyone? I like the idea of forcing him to be a cleric of Myst from now on./... fitting punishment.
or putting him on an island FAR from civilization. for a VERY long time.
-
GM's can't be everywhere all the time, but publishing your actions in this forum permits them to respond appropriately if not immediately.
No one is counting on the AI to make life more interesting. It's the GM's that really make the game. Keep them informed.
-
dadunmir - 2/2/2006 4:48 AM
Thunder Pants - 2/1/2006 7:09 PM
actually if any clerics of mist hear about this i think it would be acceptable for them to challenge Taislin to a duel in the Arena, and of course if he declines, he's a yellow bellied coward
My ears are tingling. ;)
Funny thing that, as soon as I read TPs post you popped straight into my mind Yash...Mmmm, I just wonder why ;)
-
Back off Yash...Roshnak already has his axe sharpened ;)
-
I would like to ask for some clarification. L in you comment to the photo, you said that the NPCs are spreading the word. As such is it allowed to RP this information in the game, or rather, how possible is it, that our characters will find of this?
-
If you are a follower of mist AND have visited a MIST temple you would know about it. Other than that nobody would know at this time. (except for word of mouth from those few that I stated above). A GM(s) will be handling this as well--rest assured.
-
Not speaking as a team member but I would prefer if people didnt RP it quite yet. If someone smirked at Rolf I wouldnt really have any open RP options open. IC Rolf would kill for less and kill slowly, but that option is not open.
*shrugs* but that is just me
-
I am upset that this happened. I know it did not happen in the Temple of Toran, but done in any temple just shows no respect for the charters that follow any of the Deities.
-
Grid Blader - 2/3/2006 8:45 PM
I am upset that this happened. I know it did not happen in the Temple of Toran, but done in any temple just shows no respect for the charters that follow any of the Deities.
No character is required to have any respect for the characters that follow dieties.
My hypothetical follower of Toran surely has no respect for the characters that follow corath, and my hypothetical corathite would surely spit on Toran's altar if he thought he could get away with it.
To paraphrase ZV again:
"...The problem isn't that you disrespected a god, or that you did it in her own temple... It's that you did it in a setting that allowed for no action to be taken. No GM was present thus the clerics of Mist who were in the Temple could do nothing to stop you..."
It is not at all bad rp that his character did what he did. Also, that he recorded it and posted it was better than if he had not done so and just bragged about it IG, since now, the reactions that should happen to such an even can happen.
What was in poor form was that IC, ignoring the fact that NPCs are static unless played by a DM, he would have been interrupted faaar sooner and the event would not have played out how it did, and he would not have had the chance to complete his prayer/spitting ritual (hehe.)
In conclusion, just so people don't think mass religious tolerance is now a server rule (as such a rule itself would be poor RP):
What he did was not bad. How he did it was the problem.
Though, admittedly it is sometimes difficult to get a DM to do a short scene like that with you give it a shot if you want to have an interation where the reactions of nearby NPCs are important. Just try "/dm Hey, anyone have 5 min to do a scene with me?"
-TV
-
*sighs* Taislin, Taislin, Taislin. For my sake, I hope this word doesn't spread too much.
-
A ripple is felt in Leilon. . .
http://www.layonaraonline.com/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=22240&posts=1#M138463
-
That is very amusing.. that last story. So.. if I'm to understand correctly.
Serious interaction with an NPC or group of NPCs needs a GM present..
If two characters, or a couple groups of characters for that matter, are having a fight and want it to actually come to blows does the same thing apply if the two sides are amenable to it?
-
Serious interaction with an NPC or group of NPCs needs a GM present..
Basically, yes. Use common sense. You know you're not going to get away with spitting on an altar in a temple, you know kicking captain Garent is not going to be ignored by him, you know saying you married Ragrian the Bard from the Wild Surge Inn a week ago is NOT something you can decide.
If two characters, or a couple groups of characters for that matter, are having a fight and want it to actually come to blows does the same thing apply if the two sides are amenable to it?
PvP always needs GM oversight. Always.
-
Meira - 3/30/2006 12:45 PM
If two characters, or a couple groups of characters for that matter, are having a fight and want it to actually come to blows does the same thing apply if the two sides are amenable to it?
There's always the Fort Velensk arena ^_^
-
EdTheKet - 3/30/2006 1:09 PM you know saying you married Ragrian the Bard from the Wild Surge Inn a week ago is NOT something you can decide.
Well, you can SAY it (I know some of those bards out there have the knack of saying just about anything if they think it'll make a good story), it just won't be true simply because you say it. 8)
-
"PvP always needs GM oversight. Always."
You're wrong about PvP. This is the one thing that keeps my good friend from being excited about this server. Layo has so much to offer with it's world being geared towards group adventuring. It is unrealistic that you can't fight whoever you want. In my opinion this lends to bad RP as does the ability to tell someone's relative challenge to yourself by examining them. People cop superiority attitudes towards people of lower level than themselves and as a new player here that irritates me. If a player couldn't tell how dangerous another character might be than he might have to rely on RP, what a concept. With PvP allowed then players should feel more free to chose more hostile alignments. Players could participate in aiding Blood's cause, and from what I hear he could use it lol.... That is probably suggesting too much change, but that's what I think. And by the way on RP servers that allow realistic PvP they call it CvC (character vs. character), a good name for a good reason.
-
I hardly think it fair you comment on what works and how people act for this world when you've amassed 15 hours of play time here.
We have our reasons, our limitations and our development concerns all for not including PvP - CvC. The argument is brought up at least once a month.
-
solo - 4/4/2006 9:15 PM
"PvP always needs GM oversight. Always."
You're wrong about PvP. This is the one thing that keeps my good friend from being excited about this server. Layo has so much to offer with it's world being geared towards group adventuring. It is unrealistic that you can't fight whoever you want. In my opinion this lends to bad RP as does the ability to tell someone's relative challenge to yourself by examining them. People cop superiority attitudes towards people of lower level than themselves and as a new player here that irritates me. If a player couldn't tell how dangerous another character might be than he might have to rely on RP, what a concept. With PvP allowed then players should feel more free to chose more hostile alignments. Players could participate in aiding Blood's cause, and from what I hear he could use it lol.... That is probably suggesting too much change, but that's what I think. And by the way on RP servers that allow realistic PvP they call it CvC (character vs. character), a good name for a good reason.
All I read is: "I didn't read the background of this world."
Seriously, take some time to read the player's handbook and find out what it means to be summoned by the dragon.
Yes, summoned by the dragon. Look that up, please.
-
solo - 4/4/2006 3:15 PM
"PvP always needs GM oversight. Always."
You're wrong about PvP. This is the one thing that keeps my good friend from being excited about this server. Layo has so much to offer with it's world being geared towards group adventuring. It is unrealistic that you can't fight whoever you want. In my opinion this lends to bad RP as does the ability to tell someone's relative challenge to yourself by examining them. People cop superiority attitudes towards people of lower level than themselves and as a new player here that irritates me. If a player couldn't tell how dangerous another character might be than he might have to rely on RP, what a concept. With PvP allowed then players should feel more free to chose more hostile alignments. Players could participate in aiding Blood's cause, and from what I hear he could use it lol.... That is probably suggesting too much change, but that's what I think. And by the way on RP servers that allow realistic PvP they call it CvC (character vs. character), a good name for a good reason.
That's YOUR take on the situation. I don't know you, or your friend, but I came here for the exact opposite reason that keeps your friend from being excited about it. I'd rather have a higher level character "cop a superiority attitude" towards my new character than to just decide to kill me because he felt like it. There are servers out there that will cater to your friends' (and sounds like your) desires. Once again, I'm pleased that it's not a PvP/CvC server.
-
Poor Solo, it seems you've touched on a tender subject. I hope you dont get smacked around too much by stating it.
As Orth mentioned and another commented, take the time to interact, read-up and RP with everyone before you make judgement. You mentioned joining Blood's forces. Well the game revolves around Blood being the "common enemy" to both good and evil, hence the Golden Dragon having a purpose for us all.
However to be fair you did make what i feel is a valid arguent. This alludes to the interation between lower level versus higher level PC's including berating, power emotes, friends, RP and factions.
I find it irritating when PC's flock to other PC's because of two reasons. A) they know the owner is either a GM or veteran on Layo. B) they know the character is high level. This happens all the time and I feel its touching on metagaiming.
Anyway leading to the bullying tact of some higher chars versus lower chars, fact is we PC's really wouldnt know how powerful another is unless they read the bio (ie EASY, ChALLENGIN','IMPOSSIBLE') or they tested them in a duel of some sort (which wont happen unless we agree to PvP one day). Since they shouldnt know this, they shouldnt be particular who the pick on, (maybe one day it will be blood in disguise)but in my experience they do.
My characters are usually CN so I generally treat everyone with disrespect, unless its someone of higher importance within my guild, church, faction..etc...that is at least i try to.
Anyway I also play another server from time to time for PvP with some RP thrown it. It is great for a break and the PvP is fantastic, hence i understant your appeal to it. I play a Drow and their is nothing like travelling in a Drow party and confronting good PC's from the surface. After some sledging fomr both sides its usually followed with a "OOC//wanna duel"...reply//hell yeah" then battle commences. there is nothing like dropping darkness over the whole battlefield at once...Nice typical drow tactics.
So my advice is stick in there, read up and interact. You'll find Layo a great place for a short escape.
Cheers,
Polak76
-
PvP, or any of it's names, has no place in Layonara.
Such worlds balanced for this action in no way resemble Layonara and cannot. In a game where your character cannot "die" the world quickly devolves into a series of immature RP and restricted creativity. Immaturity IG and RL comes to the forefront as DMs are assaulted with accusations, claims of power, requests for dominance, and mediation of pathetic arguments. Worlds that attempt to combine Layonarian World Concepts with PvP quickly find their high levels arguing over the various reasons why thier character has the right and privalage to level what city and when.
The players also divide into three groups... Good, Neutral, and Evil. Good is generaly the smaller and more RP intensive with a greater level of tolerance to other player and character actions, neutral's spend their time working with the Evil characters and defending them, Evil characters are drama queens and are egocentric to the point of lucicrocity and are the most inclined to break RP or cause a great deal of frustration.
Joining Blood would have gotten you immediatly killed by the majority of the character base, your RP would have been significantly reduced unless a DM was there to coddle you through everything and that would call out favoratism. Get a large group playing Evil and suddenly we have a balance issue, not to mention the fact that L's story control must be sacraficed totaly to the will of people who ... pardon my rudeness... but don't know what the "H" they are doing. Not to mention but these very people would complaine at any loss Blood suffered, forums would fill with angry tells or worse we have Player Retribution where by a group of Evil characters goes to an NPC town and .. well.. slaughters everything.
Blood is ment to have been the enemy, not the players. NWN is not designed for PVP and it certaintly detracts from the enviornment that L and the team have labored YEARS to craft. After having spent over 6 years examining over 100 servers and experiencing the trends and commonalities, flaws, and succuesses of designs I would have to say that anyone suggesting PvP as an improvement to Layonara is sorely lacking in understanding of the NATURE of the subject and in their ignorance is insulting the very foundation that Layo is built on... there are REASONS why Layonara is one of THE TOP servers in all of NWN. Yes there are some [servers] with more people, but the RP is no where near as good nor is it nearly as dynamic and well cared for.
As for servers with story lines and PvP with players controlling both sides.. I can tell you horror stories. Could you imagine a Layonara where you couldn't play a Good aligned character as you'd be kidnapped and sacraficed within the first 20 min of play?... could you imagine a Layonara where some player was lv 32 and "controlled" his own faction that held half of the contenent and was DM protected as part of the story line?.. how would you feel knowing that you could never topple that player because they claimed superman status via their level AND their army was undead so no matter how many you killed it just stayed static?... how would you enjoy Layonara if.. while killing kobolds or golbins someone in black armor strode up and just killed you and your party because their was a Paladin in the group?... You think people trash the Hlintian guards bad now?.. imagine what it would mean if PvP was open... Garant would be dead every 10 min and people would complain if he was made too strong OR complain that he didn't defend them from the three black armored chracters that slaughtered everyone... Jenneara Creekskipper would be constantly assassinated for helping Roldman rebuild because some other players are trying to conqure it... You think you hated meeting Bloods Generals badly enough.. what if one was a player and you got TELLS after an encounter AND you knew they'd just respawn and go on doing what you just stopped them from doing? How would you like feeling like you can't leave the gates BECAUSE you MIGHT MEET SOMEONE IN BLACK ARMOR!? And even INSIDE the gates you can't help but feel paranoid because they MIGHT change clothes and kill you ANYHOW! Why?.. because they can claim costume protection!
See... as long as L and the team control the story the Enemey WILL act like normal people.. retreat at defeat... take sneak attacks.. attrition.. that sort of thing.. when players take over the enemy.. they do stupid things like... respawn kill... smash head stones.. camp headstones... lure on head stones... snipe... hunt.. or just call down a few meteor showers in Hlint... people have a good habit of not thinking about destructive terrain... impacts of loss of NPCs... the AMOUNT of NPCS NOT shown... world affairs.. or the fact that there are ARMIES that would take you down... Imagine all this compounded with the knowledge that after killing them they respawn.. and it starts all over again... there is no joy in saving a village because tomorrow the Evil characters will be back inside the walls buying potions and selling equipment and gearing up to attack again and you can't do a thing about it because PvP leads to a long cycle of PvP and eventually the Player base kills itself off as people are offened or hurt or abused or tired of never seeing any hope in the world.. and after about 3 years Layonara will be a world full of evil characters and PvP and L will have to shut down the campaign because the world would officialy have been lost... not to Blood.. not to any great threat or appocolypse (though I'd wadger it'd be considered a pestilence)... but to the destructive properties of PvP in a persistant world of respawn and storyline.
These statements are mine alone and not attributed to Layonara, Leanthar "L", or any of the DMs, Content Team, or players.
(edited for spelling, grammer, and complete sentances)
-
Excellent post Doc. Well thought out and well written.
-
Righteous anger.. any how..
To respond to the "elitist levels"
Yes there can come a point where people will treat lower levels like children
I experienced it with Rose recently.. Rose herself is 20 and of equal age to several other females who called her "girl"
Though Rose herself is a very well developed and beautiful woman (Cha 14) extreamly intelligent (Int 17) and uncommonly insightful (Wis 12) she was repeatedly called a "girl"
Now this is something that has to be taken with a grain of salt... it happens and we don't stop to think about it, if it's offense send a POLITE and CURTIOUS tell. Mostly it's best to ignore as it goes away.
On this note I have to say that it also comes to WHO the character is and how WELL they know you. Weston is (my favorite example) only lv 10... yet Brisbane, Plenarious, Talan, Quantum, Ozy, and on.. don't call him boy.. or son.. (with exception to ozy who watched the gods create dirt). I'll have you all know that Weston, though he is not in any epic tales or quests, is a good and often close friend to those we call EPIC. It's just because of WHO the character is and HOW he interacts.. I had to EARN the position that Weston has and the respect he gets.
For the most part the egotism comes from an aspect of the CHARACTER and not so much from the player. Wizards are the absolute WORST at calling people children, followed closely with fighters... priests are en exception becuse it just seems to flow from their language. Consider that your character, despite appearance, is new to these people. They are veterans and have seen many many many "new" people die or never survive a year... and in so they can be insular or resistant to accepting new peeople... take it in stride.. it's a natural RL reaction that is carried in to RP via the natural minds concept of interaction.. fictional or not.. there are some aspects of humanity that just cannot be divorced from ourselves.
So long as humans are involved.. nothing will ever be Fair, Pure, or True... but it can still be Fun!
-
Im impresed Doc
-
This thread has been superseded by an updated thread (http://forums.layonara.com/layonara-server-rules/227432-reminder-abuse-npc-ai-temples-stores-other-such-locations.html) and is no longer valid.