The World of Layonara

The NWN Persistent World => Server Rules => Topic started by: EdTheKet on January 16, 2009, 02:32:55 am

Title: Clarifying note on regeneration
Post by: EdTheKet on January 16, 2009, 02:32:55 am
Minerva raised a good point recently, and after talking to Leanthar, we've come up with some more, and came up with the following rules of thumb for everyone out there on how regeneration works on Layonara.

- f you lost a limb/body part, and you still have the wound, it regenerates if you have regeneration cast on you. You do not have to have the lost limb/body part in order for it to grow back.

 - A lost limb/body part cannot regenerate if the wound has healed normally (bandage or time), or by magic means (like a Cure Minor Wounds).

 (i.e. if somebody lost a leg last year, and a regeneration spell is cast a year later, the leg doesn't grow back, or Chanda who lost her finger years ago, will not get it back if she now has regeneration cast on her)

 - if you are raised or resurrected, you return to full health, all limbs/body parts attached.
 
 -if you are a person that already misses a limb/body part, and that limb/body part loss was healed by normal or magic means in the past, and you get raised/resurrected, you do not come back with that limb/body part.

- if you lose a limb/body part because of a disease, this is not cured by regeneration or after raising/resurrecting
 
- if you lose a limb/body part because of a curse, this is not cured by regeneration or after raising/resurrecting.

- lost limbs/body parts can only be restored/returned by major NPC (GM controlled), ritualistic healing magic involving several clerics (under GM supervision), CDQ or artefact under GM control. (We don't want players able to negate silly and stupid decisions or actions by simply casting a spell like regeneration.). Loss of a limb or body part is done by RP, so the return of a limb/body part will also involve RP.

- dismemberment/mutilation/torture is to be available to Evil PCs (within reason, and all players involved consenting OOCly). It cannot be forced on a player character without this consent, this is griefing and not allowed (regardless of the fact that it would indeed be possible, it is griefing, so do not do it)

Other points:
- Regeneration on an item is considered the same as regeneration from the spell.
- Vampiric regeneration is considered the same as regeneration from the spell, except it goes in bursts as this heals you for the damage you deal.
- Cure XXX Wounds and the Heal spell, or healing potions, do not discriminate between wounds. When used, as much damage as the spell/potion can heal is healed.

If there's any questions, please post them here.
Title: Re: Clarifying note on regeneration
Post by: Pibemanden on January 16, 2009, 02:49:28 am
What if you are regenerating as part of some item? Is that considered as magical regeneration or just minor healing?
Title: Re: Clarifying note on regeneration
Post by: Weeblie on January 16, 2009, 03:34:52 am
What about Greater Restoration?
Title: Re: Clarifying note on regeneration
Post by: Dorganath on January 16, 2009, 08:33:00 am
Greater Restoration (http://lore.layonara.com/Greater%20Restoration) does not do anything for lost limbs.  It heals, removes effects of diseases, level drain, etc.
Title: Re: Clarifying note on regeneration
Post by: Script Wrecked on January 16, 2009, 09:48:10 am
Quote from: EdTheKet
- A lost limb/body part cannot regenerate if the wound has healed normally (bandage or time)...


Is by time, mechanically, resting?

Quote from: EdTheKet
... or by magic means (like a Cure Minor Wounds).


Does the Cure Wounds/Heal spell or Cure Wounds/Heal potion or the healing kit (viz, the Heal skill (http://lore.layonara.com/Heal%20(Skill))) have to be "directed" explicitly to the wound site to affect the healing of it, or does having Cure Wounds/Heal cast upon you or drinking a Cure Wounds/Heal potion or applying the healing kit affect all wounds generally, and thus affect the wound of the missing limb/body part?

Regards,

Script Wrecked.
Title: Re: Clarifying note on regeneration
Post by: Chongo on January 16, 2009, 09:54:37 am
Quote from: Pibemanden
What if you are regenerating as part of some item? Is that considered as magical regeneration or just minor healing?

Question seconded.

And do you want to clarify vampiric regeneration on an item while we're at it?
Title: Re: Clarifying note on regeneration
Post by: Weeblie on January 16, 2009, 10:03:02 am
The current description sounds a little bit harsh, as it seems to be more or less impossible to get one's limbs back. It's highly likely that you would lose a limb or two if you were to receive critical amounts of damage in combat (happens a little now and then), and in that case, it's also highly likely someone would cast heal or greater restoration on you (not any of the regeneration spells). Since none of the spells (not even ressurection) can give you your limbs back once a removal and healing cycle has been performed, it looks like most adventurers should be walking around without some body parts. ;)

Or is the "restoration won't work" part only (truly) appliable if you are using a restoration spell "too late"? Too late refering in this case to the "last year" example.
Title: Re: Clarifying note on regeneration
Post by: Leanthar on January 16, 2009, 10:11:44 am
I do not want, nor have I ever wanted, an "I win" button. Period. Regen, if not controlled is exactly that. Many DnD spells and combat skills are just that.
 
 As it is described above is how it was played in my PnP games and Layonara is based off of those games.
 
 Now, with that said. We will of course take things in to consideration and be fair where it applies.
 
 But if an adventurer gets a limb cut off then guess what...they SHOULD retire, at least in my books. *shrugs*
Title: Re: Clarifying note on regeneration
Post by: DMOE on January 16, 2009, 10:29:13 am
Oh I remember that!

I remember and I'm sure those who played with her will also making the Fort checks when she got damaged to a certain level or when common sense dictated she had overly exerted herself ....

Imagine how much fun it is when your party cleric suddenly STOPS casting and fighting cause one arm and one leg has effectively 'gone to sleep'

I lost track of how many parties that nearly killed!!!!

But then....when Toranites started ranting about sacrifice for the greater good....It tended to shut them up so not without it's benefits ;)

I also remember her being unplayable for a week RL time while the limbs grew back, painfully I might add.
Title: Re: Clarifying note on regeneration
Post by: miltonyorkcastle on January 16, 2009, 10:40:49 am
Quote
it looks like most adventurers should be walking around without some body parts.


Actually, that seems normal to me. Folks that enter combat as much as adventurers should be missing body-parts, or at least heavily scarred, unless they're wizards that never get into frontline combat.

Quote
But if an adventurer gets a limb cut off then guess what...they SHOULD retire, at least in my books. *shrugs*


But I love playing the one-armed, one-eyed, one-legged pirate! ;)
Title: Re: Clarifying note on regeneration
Post by: Hellblazer on January 16, 2009, 11:00:18 am
All of that means is.. best have a few friends in the druidic community or a good cleric! ;)
Title: Re: Clarifying note on regeneration
Post by: Drizzlin on January 16, 2009, 12:47:10 pm
Quote from: Weeblie
The current description sounds a little bit harsh, as it seems to be more or less impossible to get one's limbs back. It's highly likely that you would lose a limb or two if you were to receive critical amounts of damage in combat (happens a little now and then), and in that case, it's also highly likely someone would cast heal or greater restoration on you (not any of the regeneration spells). Since none of the spells (not even ressurection) can give you your limbs back once a removal and healing cycle has been performed, it looks like most adventurers should be walking around without some body parts. ;)

Or is the "restoration won't work" part only (truly) appliable if you are using a restoration spell "too late"? Too late refering in this case to the "last year" example.


If I loose a limb, I'll just have my friends finish me off and then raise me! j/king =P
Title: Re: Clarifying note on regeneration
Post by: Pibemanden on January 16, 2009, 02:59:17 pm
I have a further question after a bit of thought, is it possible to force heal someone? I know that it has been established a few times that you can't force raise, but what about magical healing?
Title: Re: Clarifying note on regeneration
Post by: Dorganath on January 16, 2009, 04:02:40 pm
What do you mean by "force heal"?  Isn't casting a healing spell on a person sort of forcing them to heal?
Title: Re: Clarifying note on regeneration
Post by: Pibemanden on January 16, 2009, 04:08:28 pm
I mean, can you heal someone magically against their will?
Title: Re: Clarifying note on regeneration
Post by: Hellblazer on January 16, 2009, 04:34:13 pm
That is what is being done already if you think about it. A normal pc can not normaly counter spell a mage or healer, unless he has the ability to, and even then that pc has to be aware of it being done. So unless you are conscious and in the position of counter spelling, you are activily being force healed. Think of a person that is in combat when he is being healed. He might not be aware that he is being heal, so he can not be for or against the act. And since the spell has no limits as to if the person is willing to be hurt or healed (thinking of magic missiles here, unless you have protection up or are counter spelling, you will get hurt), he will get the spell casted on him and the appropriate effects.
 
 Some one that is dead doesn't have the ability to prevent someone from raising him all toghether. From what I know ( and I am in no way a final source here but this is observation I have seen) there is a way for very powerful people to prevent the bindstone from taking you back to it, but if you are dead, there is no way for you to stop someone from raising you (unless you respawn).
 
 So basically each time someone cast a healing spell, he is effectivaly force healing the other person. Only way to stop it would be to break the process.
Title: Re: Clarifying note on regeneration
Post by: Marswipp on January 16, 2009, 04:37:02 pm
You mean to force reattachment via a healing spell?
Title: Re: Clarifying note on regeneration
Post by: Gulnyr on January 16, 2009, 06:31:19 pm
Quote from: Hellblazer
Some one that is dead doesn't have the ability to prevent someone from raising him all toghether.

Mechanically, that's true.  It has been stated several times, though, that no one has to come back to life if they don't want to.  Just like that, with a full stop rather than an "unless" or a "but" or an "except."  So, if anyone "force raised" a character who didn't want to come back, everyone would probably need to pretend it never worked (even though it would happen in-game because of the mechanics).

The question of "forced healing" seems to be a possible way to prevent people from regrowing limbs, depending how the rules above are read.  These rules specifically:
Quote
- A lost limb/body part cannot regenerate if the wound has healed normally (bandage or time), or by magic means (like a Cure Minor Wounds).

-if you are a person that already misses a limb/body part, and that limb/body part loss was healed by normal or magic means in the past, and you get raised/resurrected, you do not come back with that limb/body part.

So, from a certain reading, it may be possible to chop off someone's arm, then heal them with a potion, thus "locking" their condition according to the second rule in the quote - they had been healed "in the past," meaning a subsequent raising or casting of regeneration would not return the limb.  If that is the way it is meant to happen, "force healing" would then be a possible tactic to cripple enemies.  And, by that reading, your own healer friend may permanently cripple you trying to save your life.  That's some crazy friendly fire accident, heh.
Title: Re: Clarifying note on regeneration
Post by: Hellblazer on January 16, 2009, 06:45:12 pm
Oh yes I totally understood that. I was simply refering that forced healing is already what is done in game.
 
 I always assumed that anyone being raised IG was by ''their will'' as you refer to it, because if the person didn't want to be raised, it would either be his final path and thus perming, or simply just a choice to prevent a loss of xp to the cleric, to be an ooc matter and dealt in tells or ooc party chat before the cleric casts the spell. In a realistic IC manner though, the char that still has strands left, would not be concient to be able to make that decision, thus he wouldn't be able to stop someone from raising him unless he had made that clear before even dying.
 
 But thanks for clarifying that point for me, so basically if a char decides to pass to the neverland, even the cleric wouldn't be able to bring his soul back. But then again, that is something conflicting with what I saw in game, where you have a Resurection period of time, where someone could be brought back to life..(this was brought up at one point in a quest i was on) I think there is even a math table on lore about it. Can't find it anymore but it was somthing alike the level of the cleric x something = the numbers of years maximum that someone could be brought back to life after his death.
Title: Re: Clarifying note on regeneration
Post by: Acacea on January 16, 2009, 07:22:28 pm
That sounds like the D&D rule on how far back a cleric can raise. It didn't, to my knowledge, have anything to do with being willing or unwilling, but rather the difficulty of bringing back someone who had fallen a long time ago. When active here, it was not intended to be taken with the addition of "against their will," just ... hard to do.

In Layonara it is now three days, regardless of cleric level.
Title: Re: Clarifying note on regeneration
Post by: Dorganath on January 16, 2009, 07:29:28 pm
Quote from: Hellblazer
Oh yes I totally understood that. I was simply refering that forced healing is already what is done in game.
 
 I always assumed that anyone being raised IG was by ''their will'' as you refer to it, because if the person didn't want to be raised, it would either be his final path and thus perming, or simply just a choice to prevent a loss of xp to the cleric, to be an ooc matter and dealt in tells or ooc party chat before the cleric casts the spell. In a realistic IC manner though, the char that still has strands left, would not be concient to be able to make that decision, thus he wouldn't be able to stop someone from raising him unless he had made that clear before even dying.

Not conscious, no....but the disembodied awareness that is the person's soul would have decided to not return to the body.

Resurrection calls the soul back to the body, which drifts away after death. The soul can refuse the call.
 
Quote
But thanks for clarifying that point for me, so basically if a char decides to pass to the neverland, even the cleric wouldn't be able to bring his soul back. But then again, that is something conflicting with what I saw in game, where you have a Resurection period of time, where someone could be brought back to life..(this was brought up at one point in a quest i was on) I think there is even a math table on lore about it. Can't find it anymore but it was somthing alike the level of the cleric x something = the numbers of years maximum that someone could be brought back to life after his death.
 

That long time span for effective resurrection is D&D standard rules, but not ours any longer.  Before the three-day period was set in stone, I do believe there were instances where Resurrection was used in excess of this period, but after that point, the level of the cleric no longer matters.  It's 3 days at most, and if that passes without a resurrection or returning to a bindstone, then they're completely and permanently dead, with or without remaining soul strands.
Title: Re: Clarifying note on regeneration
Post by: Pseudonym on January 16, 2009, 07:33:54 pm
Quote from: Gulnyr

So, from a certain reading, it may be possible to chop off someone's arm, then heal them with a potion, thus "locking" their condition according to the second rule in the quote - they had been healed "in the past," meaning a subsequent raising or casting of regeneration would not return the limb.  If that is the way it is meant to happen, "force healing" would then be a possible tactic to cripple enemies.  And, by that reading, your own healer friend may permanently cripple you trying to save your life.  That's some crazy friendly fire accident, heh.


I too would like some clarification on this point as it has specifically come up for me in a quest situation .. yep, he was a pretty nasty bad guy who threatened a PC with some pretty nasty stuff. :)
Title: Re: Clarifying note on regeneration
Post by: Gulnyr on January 16, 2009, 07:34:38 pm
Quote from: Hellblazer
In a realistic IC manner though, the char that still has strands left, would not be concient to be able to make that decision, thus he wouldn't be able to stop someone from raising him unless he had made that clear before even dying.

Conscious or not, they couldn't be raised against their will.  The soul does all the willing and the body is just a container.  If the soul (which is apparently conscious whether in its body or not) doesn't want to come back, it doesn't, period, and the body has nothing to do with it or say about it.  If I were to guess, I'd say a raise or resurrection spell didn't return life so much as facilitate the soul's willing reoccupation of its body.  I mean, if it were just a point of following the soul strands back, we wouldn't need magic, would we?  Yeah, I kinda went off on a tangent. Edit: And Dorg beat me.

Anyway, also what Acacea said.
Title: Re: Clarifying note on regeneration
Post by: Cinnabar on January 16, 2009, 07:44:28 pm
Or, if someone were to cut out another's tongue (or force them to cut it out themselves) and then were to 'mercifully' heal them, would that render the victim permanently mute?

Quote from: Pseudonym
I too would like some clarification on this point as it has specifically come up for me in a quest situation .. yep, he was a pretty nasty bad guy who threatened a PC with some pretty nasty stuff. :)
Title: Re: Clarifying note on regeneration
Post by: Dorganath on January 16, 2009, 08:03:10 pm
Quote from: Leanthar
I do not want, nor have I ever wanted, an "I win" button. Period. Regen, if not controlled is exactly that. Many DnD spells and combat skills are just that.
 
 Now, with that said. We will of course take things in to consideration and be fair where it applies.

Emphasis added is mine.  I'm certain that a huge part of the initial post stems from high-level PC clerics tossing out Regeneration without GM supervision or adjudication to fix afflictions, dismemberments or other severe physical trauma that may have happened on a quest and had a GM-devised purpose.  My guess is that this was just simply taken too far and used as an "I win" button, so some reasonable limits need to be set.

I don't want to shut down the thread, but there is a whole lot mentioned above that Ed needs to address.  Debating at this point, and straying off into general topics of healing and resurrection, are taking this thread in directions it does not need to go, and it's dangerously close to going pretty far off-track.

I would simply suggest that people wait until appropriate responses to the raised issues have been addressed by Ed before getting too fussed about all the "what ifs".
Title: Re: Clarifying note on regeneration
Post by: lonnarin on January 16, 2009, 10:58:57 pm
There was this guy Ramanon who could perhaps make you a skeletal prosthesis.... ;)
Title: Re: Clarifying note on regeneration
Post by: EdTheKet on January 17, 2009, 04:49:08 am
Quote from: Dorganath
Emphasis added is mine.  I'm certain that a huge part of the initial post stems from high-level PC clerics tossing out Regeneration without GM supervision or adjudication to fix afflictions, dismemberments or other severe physical trauma that may have happened on a quest and had a GM-devised purpose.  My guess is that this was just simply taken too far and used as an "I win" button, so some reasonable limits need to be set.

I don't want to shut down the thread, but there is a whole lot mentioned above that Ed needs to address.  Debating at this point, and straying off into general topics of healing and resurrection, are taking this thread in directions it does not need to go, and it's dangerously close to going pretty far off-track.

I would simply suggest that people wait until appropriate responses to the raised issues have been addressed by Ed before getting too fussed about all the "what ifs".


Thank you Dorg, I will respond shortly after discussing some points with Leanthar as well.
I thought the rules of thumb were pretty good, but you guys have a way of coming up with all kinds of (sometimes wicked ;) !) examples.
Title: Re: Clarifying note on regeneration
Post by: EdTheKet on January 17, 2009, 11:35:27 am
My initial post has been updated.
Title: Re: Clarifying note on regeneration
Post by: Hellblazer on January 17, 2009, 12:45:38 pm
Quote from: EdTheKet

- dismemberment/mutilation/torture is to be available to Evil PCs (within reason, and all players involved consenting OOCly). It cannot be forced on a player character without this consent, this is griefing and not allowed (regardless of the fact that it would indeed be possible, it is griefing, so do not do it)

If there's any questions, please post them here.

You say that torture is only available to Evil pcs, but in the alignment threads other alignment (LN, TN, CN) says that Torture is available to them for different reasons. Is that still applicable or is it a steady fast rule that torture is only available to Evil aligned pcs now?

The act it self can be viewed as evil, but what makes other Alignment like TN is their ability to keep a balance by doing both sides of the coins between good and evil.
Title: Re: Clarifying note on regeneration
Post by: Dorganath on January 17, 2009, 01:02:24 pm
I'm pretty sure he's saying it's an available RP option with informed consent between players, but that such things are in fact evil acts regardless of character alignment.  Effectively, we're not limiting the RP of Evil (note capitalization) because of administrative rules.

TN characters do not have to commit "evil" actions to remain in balance.  That is one interpretation of TN, but not the only way to go.
Title: Re: Clarifying note on regeneration
Post by: lonnarin on January 18, 2009, 12:03:16 pm
Will we be using the chopping of kneecaps as an incentive for timely payment in the MMORPG?

"Dude, what happened to you?"
"My credit card bounced.  I have about 15 days left in shinless mode till they cut me off cold turkey.  It's ok, I'm still 12th level!  want to party?"
"Oh Alright, we better walk SLOWLY then...."

*heal check failure: only submission of valid credit card number and exp date will restore kneecaps. You have been pwned.*
Title: Re: Clarifying note on regeneration
Post by: Falonthas on March 07, 2009, 11:57:10 am
get your fingers bit off here badgers waiting for appointments, no finger to big to remove with a big chomp, no it wont grow back

please wash your hands before reporting for removal,chanda tasted awful that day
Title: Re: Clarifying note on regeneration
Post by: akata on October 15, 2009, 06:54:08 am
A thought crossed my mind the other day, does items with a permanent regeneration effect the aging process?

*friendly bump*
Title: Re: Clarifying note on regeneration
Post by: EdTheKet on December 06, 2009, 02:11:08 pm
Quote from: akata
A thought crossed my mind the other day, does items with a permanent regeneration effect the aging process?

*friendly bump*


My initial thought would be no. As would be my secondary thought.
Title: Re: Clarifying note on regeneration
Post by: EdTheKet on December 09, 2009, 01:34:10 pm
After consideration and discussion, the answer remains no.
Items with permanent regeneration do not affect the aging process.
Title: Re: Clarifying note on regeneration
Post by: Acacea on December 09, 2009, 01:59:05 pm
Would they not indirectly do so by virtue of applying a continuous stream of healing, which is basically the same as one of the reasons you gave for blurry adventurer ages in the other thread?

Not as a "you cease aging!" or "live past your max lifespan!" but rather just the same "kept going at good condition for much longer than most due to exposure" type of affecting? In other words, not keeping you from aging, but stemming the tide of decrepitude, heh. Constant positive energy exposure was given as one of several reasonable explanations for adventurers continuing to fight the good fight well into and past middle age ;)
Title: Re: Clarifying note on regeneration
Post by: EdTheKet on December 09, 2009, 02:34:32 pm
Quote from: Acacea
Would they not indirectly do so by virtue of applying a continuous stream of healing, which is basically the same as one of the reasons you gave for blurry adventurer ages in the other thread?


Where is this thread?
Title: Re: Clarifying note on regeneration
Post by: jrizz on December 09, 2009, 06:22:28 pm
From this thread: http://forums.layonara.com/roleplaying/109403-ageing.html#post434993

Quote from: EdTheKet
Characters are not outside of time. If you started out at 18 in let's say 1387 when the dark cloud circled the world, and you were also there when Drezneb and Eon were defeated in 1399, you will have aged 12 years. There is no way around that.

Of course it would be nice (or at least I think it would be nice :) ), if age gave rise to a deterioration of your stats, but we can't do that. However, as time goes by your character does age. As there's nothing we can do really to physically affect your char, it remains as he was created at age 18. However, your character has probably been healed (by potions, magic, whatever) so often, that it may have slowed it down or something. And there's of course the bindstone thing, which I can easily argue for that it would hasten the ageing process :) so I'm more in favor of the healing magic/potion thing.

So, even when playing a human, you have a couple of RL years to play your character, and wouldn't it be fun to evolve him into an old man? Teach those young upstarts some respect for the elderly (who can swing a mace quite hard and well, thank you :) ).
Title: Re: Clarifying note on regeneration
Post by: Drizzlin on December 09, 2009, 09:11:19 pm
Now why would any pc want to torture another pc and go as far as removing body parts? = )
Title: Re: Clarifying note on regeneration
Post by: EdTheKet on December 10, 2009, 02:59:33 am
Quote from: myself
As there's nothing we can do really to physically affect your char, it remains as he was created at age 18. However, your character has probably been healed (by potions, magic, whatever) so often, that it may have slowed it down or something. And there's of course the bindstone thing, which I can easily argue for that it would hasten the ageing process  so I'm more in favor of the healing magic/potion thing

Ah right, I didn't recall me saying "it's like this", certainly not in the recent past. Reading my own words from 3 years ago, I see I also left it not completely defined at that time. I left it intentionally vague, because we don't want to sacrifice gameplay on the altar of realism all the time (meaning, we are not going to say "Your human character is technically over the age limit of humans, is therefore technically dead and cannot be played anymore." While a small minority of you may like that, the vast majority will not. So we're not doing that.

Steering this back on track, regeneration is the re-growth of something that was damaged or lost or damaged, like a limb for example. It is not the continuously keeping your body and organs in prime condition and preventing the effects of ageing.

And as a side note, over time people have come to realize that people who've bound to a bindstone seem to live longer than people of the same race who have not. Unless they perm of course.
Title: Re: Clarifying note on regeneration
Post by: akata on December 10, 2009, 06:49:21 am
Quote from: EdTheKet
.

Steering this back on track, regeneration is the re-growth of something that was damaged or lost or damaged, like a limb for example. It is not the continuously keeping your body and organs in prime condition[/u] and preventing the effects of ageing.


Actually that is precisely what regeneration does.
Regeneration from items are always active (as long as the item is on) its not waiting for cut, but it is constantly pumping healing energy into the characters body regardless of wounds.
Title: Re: Clarifying note on regeneration
Post by: jrizz on December 10, 2009, 06:53:47 am
@akata Do you get the healed 0 points message every round when wearing regen items while you are at full hit points?
Title: Re: Clarifying note on regeneration
Post by: jrizz on December 10, 2009, 07:06:25 am
I tried it with some pipeweed and did indeed get the "heald 0 points" :)
 
 So since herbal pipeweed gives a x points of regeneration for x duration, depending on the pipe and weed, does smoking on layo make you live longer :P
Title: Re: Clarifying note on regeneration
Post by: akata on December 10, 2009, 08:45:54 am
Quote from: EdTheKet

However, your character has probably been healed (by potions, magic, whatever) so often, that it may have slowed it down or something. And there's of course the bindstone thing, which I can easily argue for that it would hasten the ageing process :) so I'm more in favor of the healing magic/potion thing.

Since it seems our loremaster is in favor of healing energy prolonging lifespan then yes in Layo smoking does indeed make you live longer ;)
Quote from: jrizz
I tried it with some pipeweed and did indeed get the "heald 0 points" :)
 
 So since herbal pipeweed gives a x points of regeneration for x duration, depending on the pipe and weed, does smoking on layo make you live longer :P


My point is; if hearling in any rate slows the ageing process (and from Ed's own post it seems its so) then regeneration which is 24/7 constant pumping healing energy into your body would make your character live longer

however if healing don't, then nor regeneration or smoking effects your ageing
Title: Re: Clarifying note on regeneration
Post by: EdTheKet on December 10, 2009, 09:17:15 am
Quote from: EdTheKet
Ah right, I didn't recall me saying "it's like this", certainly not in the recent past. Reading my own words from 3 years ago, I see I also left it not completely defined at that time. I left it intentionally vague, because we don't want to sacrifice gameplay on the altar of realism all the time (meaning, we are not going to say "Your human character is technically over the age limit of humans, is therefore technically dead and cannot be played anymore." While a small minority of you may like that, the vast majority will not. So we're not doing that.

Steering this back on track, regeneration is the re-growth of something that was damaged or lost or damaged, like a limb for example. It is not the continuously keeping your body and organs in prime condition and preventing the effects of ageing.

And as a side note, over time people have come to realize that people who've bound to a bindstone seem to live longer than people of the same race who have not. Unless they perm of course.


In case it was not clear (and it looks like it wasn't), I was saying that it is in fact the bindstones that seem the cause of that bit of longer life, not the healing magic.

My post that you've been quoting was from 2006, prior to the release of the new cosmology and therefore when we still actually had D&D's positive and negative energy.
Since D&D cosmology went out the window, and the negative/positive energy with it, the quoted post is no longer valid.

Should that have been clarified? Sure. Did I miss it? You betcha. Would I have clarified it earlier if anyone noticed it before this week? Most definitely!

So, I've explained what regeneration does with regards to the aging process (nothing):

Regeneration is the re-growth of something that was damaged or lost or damaged, like a limb for example. It is not the continuously keeping your body and organs in prime condition and preventing the effects of ageing.

The fact that due to something quirky there's a message "healed 0 points" every now and then does not change that definition.

So there you go :)
Title: Re: Clarifying note on regeneration
Post by: Drizzlin on December 11, 2009, 05:06:04 pm
Quote from: akata
Actually that is precisely what regeneration does.
Regeneration from items are always active (as long as the item is on) its not waiting for cut, but it is constantly pumping healing energy into the characters body regardless of wounds.


However, I believe all items, even a ring, have to be activated to work. Simple commands or even conditions can activate them, such as being wounded, a ring of regeneration would then activate.

In the D&D setting, which layo could change that however they deem, a regeneration ring only heals when damaged. A ring of Regen is not an everlasting, never aging, never dying.
Title: Re: Clarifying note on regeneration
Post by: Acacea on December 11, 2009, 06:37:12 pm
While I still believe that constant healing and exposure to the energies involved in healing are as much a factor as anything (my first choice was the bindstones which was at the time advised to be more likely to do the opposite), I agree items with permanent regeneration are not ceaselessly functioning.

Even if the usual terms still applied, that much positive energy (as I said, if the usual terms applied), over a constant period of time working beyond capacity would eventually be dangerous, going beyond the realm of temporary hit points and into the exploding you for fun range... Using a Heal spell on a minor wound still only applies just what is needed, not every point available.
Title: Re: Clarifying note on regeneration
Post by: akata on December 12, 2009, 08:29:03 am
As Ed have already cleared up regeneration and ageing then it hardly matters, but I'll comment on Drizzlin and Aceaca's posts regardless.  Just bear in mind that this is my opinion if healing had any effect on ageing as it (seemed to have) prior to the release of the new cosmology.



Quote from: Drizzlin
However, I believe all items, even a ring, have to be activated to work. Simple commands or even conditions can activate them, such as being wounded, a ring of regeneration would then activate.

In the D&D setting, which layo could change that however they deem, a regeneration ring only heals when damaged. A ring of Regen is not an everlasting, never aging, never dying.


Sure I'll agree to all of that, but in order for healing energy to have had any effect in regards to ageing then ageing would have to be considered damage to the body, If so then activating of a regeneration ring when on full health would slow down a characters ageing, if you want to use the trigger effect then again the ring would be working constantly in an effect to overcome the damage ageing was doing to your body.
 
I can't really find where I or anyone else for that matter claimed that regeneration was never aging never dying?  I claimed and still do even under the new rules that regeneration keeps a characters body in prime condition, what else would you call being constant at 100% health?  Yes of course you can still die from age it would just be later than other people of the same race, and yes you could still be killed from massive damage (read anything that drops you below -10 hp)

Quote from: Acacea
While I still believe that constant healing and exposure to the energies involved in healing are as much a factor as anything (my first choice was the bindstones which was at the time advised to be more likely to do the opposite), I agree items with permanent regeneration are not ceaselessly functioning.

Even if the usual terms still applied, that much positive energy (as I said, if the usual terms applied), over a constant period of time working beyond capacity would eventually be dangerous, going beyond the realm of temporary hit points and into the exploding you for fun range... Using a Heal spell on a minor wound still only applies just what is needed, not every point available.


My view on healing on a character;

Imagine our character being a bucket full of water (yes yes laugh it up :P ) when you take damage some of the water pours out, a healing spell is simply adding water and the power of the spell determine how much water you add. That can't make the bucket blow up, the left over water/healing are simply wasted. Now again if healing had any effect on age, then the left over healing would instead of being wasted undo some of the damage your body had taken from age.

This is my opinion/understanding of healing, you're free to believe otherwise.
 
*grins slightly* as a little side note, it's actually just as easy to claim that regeneration would accelerate the age process as slow it down
Title: Re: Clarifying note on regeneration
Post by: Drizzlin on December 12, 2009, 12:49:10 pm
@akata

I see your points, but no where in D&D or Layo is an item with Regeneration ever healed aging cells. Aging cells are not the same as being wounded. By your rational, you wouldn't even grow hair while wearing a regen item, because it would revert your hair cells back to their original state when the item was first put on. The growing of a hair cell, is in fact the aging of that cell as it multiplies.

In fact, your last statement actually makes more sense. The growing and splitting of cells would be excellerated, causing your hair to grow at an increased rate and your cells to replicate over and over to the point that you would never stop growing.

I don't want to break down an entire cell biology course here, it would bring up great debates between fantasy items of regen vs the natural aging process!! Would be fun, but pointless. My point is, if a regen item prevented the aging process, it would also prevent the growing of any cell, preventing any change in it, which would prevent the growing of a person body, hair ect. Infact, it would by that rational prevent the regeneration of a limb, because a cell couldn't grow and multiple into other cells and the die.