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Author Topic: Druid submission rules  (Read 8743 times)

Frendh

Druid submission rules
« on: August 16, 2011, 05:28:18 am »
I kind of broke this one from day 1.
Quote
2.I understand and agree to the rules of achieving these objectives.


I used copper bullets for my sling. I thought, "I'll use these until I can find some stone bullets". But I have not found any so far. Then the sickle, are there any stone sickles?

Later on I will most likely just use a scimitar. But it is not something I want to use in the early stage of his adventuring life.
 

Shiokara

Re: Druid submission rules
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2011, 10:41:23 am »
Not sure what the official say on this is, but I can tell you that stone tools and weapons (for the most part) don't exist in-game. I think the one that I did see drop was a stone dagger that had a -1 modifier on it, so they're not very practical. As with some Wemic submissions I have seen (a race that doesn't use much beyond stone), though, I think most just RP that the weapon is made from stone. I can't comment more on the sickle, though, sorry.

Most druids I have seen go either the scimitar route or the short staff route for melee. Short staves work well because they are wood, and their bludgeoning damage type works well for slaying those unnatural undead aberrations. Additionally, silver enhancements work on a blunt weapon, but not for slashing weapons because the enhancement's damage bonus counts as slashing (the two don't seem to stack). Since you can use a wooden tower shield with either, it can provide you with some much-needed AC (especially if you're a sporting leathers to match lore instead of the mechanically given medium armors). A Walking Stick of the Hierophant is a great find for a starting druid since it's essentially a +1 modified short staff.

Copper bullets are, as far as I can tell, ok to use. Just RP that you're using stones. If you're not ok with that, you could make the argument that the bullets are a negligible interference. After all it's the wearing of metal that interferes with one's connection to nature.
 

miltonyorkcastle

Re: Druid submission rules
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2011, 10:56:14 am »
Thank you, Frendh, for coming forward with this. Shiokara is right on, and we have addressed the issues surrounding the lesser uses of metal (like for bullets) in past threads. They can be RP'd as stone, since we don't have any mechanical way to compensate.
 

IceDragonDuvessa

Re: Druid submission rules
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2011, 11:00:27 am »
There are also wooden clubs in game that you can use if you don't care for the sickle/scimitar options. Rhizome once explained it to me like this: a sickle was ok because you could use it to harvest and groom the land if that makes you feel better about things.
 

Dorganath

Re: Druid submission rules
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2011, 12:45:20 pm »
To add...

Sickle, dagger and Scimitar are traditionally ceremonial "weapons" for a druid. Ideally, we'd have Ironwood for the scimitar and obsidian for the dagger and sickles....but we don't. These are all OK to use as-is without worrying about oaths and connections and things.
 

Frendh

Re: Druid submission rules
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2011, 01:48:22 pm »
Okay. I think adding some kind of comment in druid information would help. "If any of the allowed weapons can't be found in a metal free form use the metal weapon mechanically but Roleplay as if it was made of a proper substitute." or some such.
 

miltonyorkcastle

Re: Druid submission rules
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2011, 03:10:57 pm »
I added a small note to help with the confusion.

Admins, please review and make sure the statement is accurate and adequate.

[LORE]Druid Information[/LORE]
 

Guardian 452

Re: Druid submission rules
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2011, 03:57:40 pm »
I'd reccomend playing around with the weapon appearance. I bet one will look more stone or wooden... I even saw you could turn some clubs into a fish LOL!

Like the team has said when you are limited by what is avail. just have to make do.
 

Hellblazer

Re: Druid submission rules
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2011, 04:45:46 pm »
Quote from: miltonyorkcastle
I added a small note to help with the confusion.

Admins, please review and make sure the statement is accurate and adequate.

[LORE]Druid Information[/LORE]


Should add scimitar in that, since you already said sickles and slings.

Dorganath

Re: Druid submission rules
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2011, 09:00:02 pm »
Quote from: Guardian 452
Like the team has said when you are limited by what is avail. just have to make do.

Correct, and this has always been the case.

Really, Bioware's implementation of the Druid class is much more permissive than 3rd Ed. rules, but we work with what we have.
 

Dorganath

Re: Druid submission rules
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2011, 09:02:22 pm »
Quote from: miltonyorkcastle
I added a small note to help with the confusion.

Admins, please review and make sure the statement is accurate and adequate.

[lore]Druid Information[/lore]

Looks fine, milt.  Thanks.
 

Frendh

Re: Druid submission rules
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2011, 01:53:12 pm »
Not counting armor, shields and weapons am I allowed to fudge with the other items? Like, making a adamantium helm look like a hood or saying my rings are made of carved bone?

edit: I can pretty much guess the answer to my next question, but I want to make sure. Of the craftable shields are the wooden shields the only allowed ones for druids? They are crummy and barely worth using for me. AC bonus only for certain type of damages is no good and fire vulnerability(!!!).

I have only been wearing the spell component necklace so far. But I am thinking about buying some rings. Then there is the helmet of armor quest.
 

miltonyorkcastle

Re: Druid submission rules
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2011, 02:32:03 pm »
Non-metal headgear exists IG, and as a druid, that's what should be used, if anything. The same goes for the shields, again because it is available IG, and a druid would not use the refined metal shields.

We don't really have non-metal ring options, so I'd fit that in the same category as the non-metal bullets- you can RP the rings are made of enchanted grass braids or some such if you'd like.

Completing the helm of armor quest really doesn't make sense for druids. For one thing, the helm(s) grants mage armor and barkskin, and the druid can already cast barskskin, and ultimately get a better AC bonus from his/her casting as opposed to the helm's. Second, a druid would find it to be utter ridiculousness to go around collecting (and don't even talk about making) fabricated weapons to support the protection of civilization.

Much like choosing to play the other divine classes, or playing one of the 'evil' races, you sacrifice some things (such as the ability to complete certain static quests) to gain the other benefits of the class/race.
 

Aerimor

Re: Druid submission rules
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2011, 05:28:24 pm »
I always role played that my druid's jewelry was made from wrought metals.  Metal after all is found naturally.  It's the unnatural firing and working of the metal that 'removes' it from its natural state, in my opinion.  After all a lot of working of metal is to remove its impurities.  Those "impurities" are natural and instead of being culled, should be embraced.

The crude more natural look of wrought jewelry to me seemed rather fitting for a druid.

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Frendh

Re: Druid submission rules
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2011, 06:03:31 pm »
Quote from: miltonyorkcastle
Completing the helm of armor quest really doesn't make sense for druids. .
Knowing the reward is meta gaming I think, I do not remember them telling you before what you will get. I could be wrong it was a really long time ago since I did the quest.

It makes sense to me if you have a character who likes to help out.

Quote
Second, a druid would find it to be utter ridiculousness to go around collecting (and don't even talk about making) fabricated weapons to support the protection of civilization.

Maybe your and many other druids have beliefs like that, but I reread the lore on druids and I could not find any mention of it. I agree it would be ridiculous to collect said weapons for druids.

Until that changes my druid will not be conservative like your druid. He realizes that kicking people back into the stone ages will not be helpful. He is allowed to use a scimitar for a reason.

What are the general ways for druids to cook food? Roasting on sticks and in leaves. But do they use stone pots for boiling?
 

Rowana

Re: Druid submission rules
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2011, 03:27:09 am »
Hey there,
 
 I try not to dive into these too often because I can get rather wordy and I don't usually have a lot of time to do the posts justice, but here goes.
 
 
Quote from: Frendh
Knowing the reward is meta gaming I think, I do not remember them telling you before what you will get. I could be wrong it was a really long time ago since I did the quest.

 Knowing the reward that's been handed out countless times to people around you is not metagaming. Perhaps you don't know anyone who's done the quest, fine. I don't think doing the quest itself for any reason whatsoever has any bearing on metagaming. If you have a character who's a jerk and never helps people out, well he can still do the quest because he wants that cool helm reward that's rumored to be given out. Metagaming really doesn't come into the factor at all. It might be different if there were not a billion (exaggerated for dramatic purposes) copies of the helm floating around and even getting sold from time to time. Now how this relates to druids, read on...

Quote from: Frendh
It makes sense to me if you have a character who likes to help out.

 What doesn't make sense about this isn't that someone might want to help out the good ol' trooper, it's that a -druid- would even be remotely interested in:
 
 1) touching worked metal who's mere presence on their person can disrupt their connection with nature,  
 2) assist those individuals/groups that harvest and use Nature without giving back,  
 3) assist those individuals/groups who harvest and use Nature for the purpose of making war (which disrupts the balance),
 4) assist those individuals/groups who think druids and all their ilk are a bizarre and eccentric at best and a danger to the population at worst,  
 5) assisting individuals/groups who are spreading out into the wilds, cutting them out and gutting them for their own selfish and frivolous needs.  

 All of these are common opinions of druids toward civilization (Though not a complete list). Not every druid holds all of those perspectives, but most of them usually hold one or two of them. If someone doesn't hold at least a little of these opinions as a druid, they probably aren't -actually- a druid and Nature doesn't -actually- want to grant them any powers for it's protection and theirs.

Quote from: Frendh
Maybe your and many other druids have beliefs like that, but I reread the lore on druids and I could not find any mention of it. I agree it would be ridiculous to collect said weapons for druids.

 For the above reasons, the druids would seriously frown on and perhaps penalize a member of theirs who was working with the town for completely frivolous or disruptive needs. It has been long on this server held that druids would have nothing to do with this item anyway.

Quote from: Frendh
Until that changes my druid will not be conservative like your druid. He realizes that kicking people back into the stone ages will not be helpful. He is allowed to use a scimitar for a reason.

 I'm not sure where you get your assumption that other druids think they should be kicking people back into the stone ages, but you are wrong about the conservative nature of druids. Druids are literally conservative by nature. (That could be a trippy little poem with a little work.) There are a good number of druids who wish to work with civilizations and want to find a happy balance between the ever expanding Humans, the digging ever deeper Dwarves, etc, etc, etc. Not all druids feel that way. Some teach animals tactics to kill humanoids on site. Others will actually go head to head with those civilized places when given half a chance. Others stay out of  it all together unless the 'civilized' people try to come in and encroach on their protected areas. However one aspect remains utterly true. Druids, by nature, are there to protect and nurture Nature. Nature is an entity that is alive and grants people with certain inclinations toward 'It' miraculous abilities like changing into natural shapes, covering one's  self in bark, camouflaging one's self in most surroundings and heck, even being able to nearly universally understand an animal's mind through reading it's body language and such. Anything that separates a druid from those given abilities and extra sensories is probably beyond 'taboo' for them. It is possibly as drastic as a little death. It is certainly the same as cutting the divinely inspired off from their deity.

Quote from: Frendh
What are the general ways for druids to cook food? Roasting on sticks and in leaves. But do they use stone pots for boiling?

Ah, now this question is always fun to answer. Usually we don't like to draw in too much real life examples because this is a fantasy world that is drastically different from our own in the larger ways. However, visual help may be assistive here so I'm going to throw in some links for the interested. (Forward apologies for any pop-ups. I have a good blocker so it's hard to tell sometimes if there is any.)  
 
 Stone pots would be rather heavy given the nomadic nature of druids. But what about it's cousin, the clay pot? What about pit cooking? Hawai'ian Luau's are pretty famous for the central feasting prep even today. This wiki entry on the Comanche people has a great walk through on their food prep. I'm sure if the Comanche's magic came from the land itself, the trade with the Spanish for metal tools wouldn't have changed their ways. What about other tools then? What do they clean with? Well the cleaning whisk can be used for everything from baking stone to a clay pot and even teeth! (It's typically used for woks, but that doesn't help us much in this dialog, just mentioning for full disclosure) Wooden spoons and forks aren't to big a deal, chopping blocks either. All of these and other useful tools could be made in spades from a storm felled tree. I really could go on and on about tools like this (okay one more, the mortar and pestle is pretty classic tool made of natural materials) but I won't.... Native/Nature oriented people use all sorts of things to make cool stuff even today, without using metal at all. Some people dig in and do it traditional ways and others just find new ways of doing the same thing. (And no, the 'drill' mentioned here is not the power tools sort, which you'll see if you dig deeper in.)  
 
 The point is, humans of the real world lived for ages without worked metal. Now add in a healthy dose of magic, both the Al'Noth sort and the Natury sort and you have yourself a plethora of ways to circumvent the need for this worked metal stuff. Layo is first and for most about the RP of things. We give a pretty good leeway on items because we are bound by a limited space for customized items and limited expression of what we can represent mechanically. What we are not limited by is the ways in which we can RP a character within the bounds of the lore. What the responses above were saying, “Yeah, you can fudge things a little to make your character reasonably playable but don't get too lost in the mechanics.” We don't run this world to make the biggest, baddest druid with the best AC and range of abilities. We do this for the RP of it all and getting drown in the mechanics really takes away from the amazing parts of what makes Layonara.
 
 One last note, as was mentioned in one of the posts linked above. Ed doesn't care for scimitar wielding druids but he allows it because of mechanics issues.  

 
Quote from: EdTheKet
And as for scimitars, the folks in DnD should never have allowed druids to use those if you ask me J The same argument I used for metal weapons applies to scimitars as well, but then we’d be a bit too restrictive, so we didn’t.

I wouldn't go around flaunting the use of the weapon as some kind of proof that it's alright to use metal. This team has been known to clear up those kinds of misconceptions by simply removing the source all together.

~row
 

Dorganath

Re: Druid submission rules
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2011, 08:13:45 am »
Quote from: Rowana
One last note, as was mentioned in one of the posts linked above. Ed doesn't care for scimitar wielding druids but he allows it because of mechanics issues.

I feel the same way about elven druids being able to use bows, but alas...
 

Frendh

Re: Druid submission rules
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2011, 09:08:36 am »
Thanks Rowana. It was informative. Cooking part was good.

Quote from: Rowana
I wouldn't go around flaunting the use of the weapon as some kind of proof that it's alright to use metal. This team has been known to clear up those kinds of misconceptions by simply removing the source all together.

~row

I did not mean that it is okay for druids to use any metals. But according to the current lore the Druid society is aware of that metal is needed because it is superior in some ways for combat.

Quote
For the above reasons, the druids would seriously frown on and perhaps penalize a member of theirs who was working with the town for completely frivolous or disruptive needs. It has been long on this server held that druids would have nothing to do with this item anyway.

What town? Llast? Haven? Is either town known as an enemy of nature? I have not heard of it so my druid cannot act as being aware of it. As far as in game is concerned, whether the weapons go to help a town who tries to have a balance with nature or a town that is a complete enemy of nature it is all speculation on my part.

Unless I have a list to check against I am going to assume that towns are generally not complete exploiters of nature.


Quote

I'm not sure where you get your assumption that other druids think they should be kicking people back into the stone ages, but you are wrong about the conservative nature of druids. Druids are literally conservative by nature.
I was trying to say that taking away people's metal would be like kicking them back to the stone ages.

You also misunderstand the quote. I differentiate between "conservative" and "conservative like that". In this case, "Conservative like your druid is about metal and weapons".

Change is a big part of nature. Nature changes all the time without the involvement of sentient beings. Is it wrong for my druid to have accepted this? Accepting change is the opposite of being conservative.

Here is the quote I commented on:
Quote
Second, a druid would find it to be utter ridiculousness to go around collecting (and don't even talk about making) fabricated weapons to support the protection of civilization.

Civilization needs the metal weapons and tools. Nature needs part of civilization to help fend off the other parts of civilization who wants to exploit nature to the extremes or even burn it to the ground.  I do not find it "utterly ridiculous" to help out allies or at least the enemy of my enemy.


Quote
1) touching worked metal who's mere presence on their person can disrupt their connection with nature,

I handle coins on a daily basis and ICly buy and sell things using coins. I assumed carrying metal weapons for a few minutes would not matter that much. You have to breath to live, but you can hold your breath for a minute or two if you want to dive under water.

Now this leads to loot, are no druids looting metal things to sell/trade or carry for companions?
 

miltonyorkcastle

Re: Druid submission rules
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2011, 09:34:34 am »
Quote
What town? Llast? Haven? Is either town known as an enemy of nature? I have not heard of it so my druid cannot act as being aware of it. As far as in game is concerned, whether the weapons go to help a town who tries to have a balance with nature or a town that is a complete enemy of nature it is all speculation on my part.

Unless I have a list to check against I am going to assume that towns are generally not complete exploiters of nature.


A small farming village (read: a couple hundred people at most) is not likely to take much from nature, but a city like Fort Llast (and pretty much any town with a population in the thousands) is going to, by default, take what it needs from nature at will. So a druid's assumption should be the other way around: If a city exists, it should be assumed that the city is exploiting nature in some way, unless it is known that the city makes a special effort to work with nature (such as Sadinia of Voltrex).

Quote
I handle coins on a daily basis and ICly buy and sell things using coins. I assumed carrying metal weapons for a few minutes would not matter that much. You have to breath to live, but you can hold your breath for a minute or two if you want to dive under water.

Now this leads to loot, are no druids looting metal things to sell/trade or carry for companions?


A druid would have little use for coins. Aside from the 'metal' aspect, a druid doesn't need anything a coin can buy. Nature provides everything a druid needs. Druids have no use for looting because they don't need loot. They don't need (or want, for that matter) houses, fancy gear, or lots of money. I don't know why a druid would even bother with a bank account. Banks are functions of civilization, and you only need a bank if you plan to hoard metal (in the form of coins). That isn't very druidic. Still, a druid might hoard metal and collect things that civilization appreciates to be used as a means to convince the 'civilized' people to respect nature (using it to buy land reserves, etc.)- paying them off, essentially. That is a much more liberal approach, of course, and for the most part, as Row points out, a druid is just about the most conservative type of creature you will ever meet. A great many druids would just as soon put the literal boot to civilized society rather than cut a deal with it.
 

lonnarin

Re: Druid submission rules
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2011, 09:39:17 am »
Quote from: Dorganath
I feel the same way about elven druids being able to use bows, but alas...


I don't know what reason bows would even remotely be an issue.  A stick with a silk string is NOT metal or processed in any form.  If we're going according to the dogma and reasoning given for the restrictions then the only reason to disallow bows is because D&D Pen and Paper didn't see fit to give it to them as a weapon proficiency.

And nature provides everything a druid needs to loot because all of those monsters and people and beasties out there are part of nature.  Even the humans are nature.  The little coins in their bags are like the honey gathered by bees and the dung rolled by beetles, the acorns hoarded by squirrels.  Sure little balls of rolled dung aren't useful to any of us, but when bartering with the dung beetle, they are like gold; Useless to them on a personal level, but useful to trade in order to manipulate the silly civilized people who hoarde shiny things like greedy ravens.  

My druid Grovel likes to jingle the bags at little peasants, make them dance, get on all fours and bark like a dog before tossing it to them and watching them bite and claw for it.  But to say that gold is totally usefless to a druid in the great scheme of things is silly.  Druids may be conservative, but they are not blindingly ignorant enough to totally turn their backs on the concepts of barter/trade.  If their intelligence is above a 3, they will trade gold to attain their ends.  Even if they hate the nasty processed metals, better to stick it back in the pockets of the defilers in exchange for items of REAL worth than to let it sit around in the forrest, rusting and getting stuck in the throats of badgers.  If only to get rid of the processed metals, coins and weapons littering the woos, they will trade them back to the cities.  Loot is like litter, cities are like junk yards.  Toss that trash where it belongs.
 

 

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