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Author Topic: Paladins  (Read 1240 times)

silverblades

Re: Paladins
« Reply #20 on: July 06, 2006, 11:29:45 am »
Meat shields why I take offence at that *slaps him with a glove*..Onguard!
There can be only One.
 

Fortnight

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    Re: Paladins
    « Reply #21 on: July 06, 2006, 01:52:25 pm »
    First, a disclaimer.

    I've never met a paladin being played on Layonara, so I don't know what they are like here, but...

    I think paladins are one of the most complex character types one can play, to devote oneself to the defense of ones faith through martial arms is not an easy task to do, or roleplay. THAT is why so many fall into the stereotypical 'Lawfull Stupid' mold. It is hard to justify some of the outright carnage vs. some of the more peachfull aspects normally asociated with people of faith. I think this is where the greater player base is to blame, they expect paladins to be without fault, honest, virtuous and pure as the driven snow. I on the other hand see them a bit differently.

    Lancelot, from the Arturian (or Arthurian if you want) was the greatest of Arthurs knights, devout and pious, yet he was duped into an affair by Elaine of Astolat, whereby Galahad is born, the bastard son of a paladin-esque figure. Lancelot rejects Elaine, due to his love of Guinevere, the beloved of his king. His love for Guinevere ultimately brings down the court of camelot. A paladin with definate flaws, but definately more interesting than Paul the generic Paladin.

    It's a lot more interesting to roleplay someone with exterior motivating factors other than the need to feed, shelter and upgrade thier equipment. And hey, if you are in a party with a paladin all you have to do to motivate them is say "I just hope that -Target X- stays away from those innocent (Y) at that place (z), it would be a bloodbath, and think of those poor children at orphanage (xyz) of (insert paladins diety here)."

    The zealot, who actively seeks out evil, like a holy ranger, patrolling the countryside.
    The crusader, who takes his faith into new lands, and attempts to convert the natives (sometimes by force)
    The protector/avenger, who takes on a specific cause and attempts to preserve or avenge it.
    The curator/scholar, who collects and catologues  holy relics for the chucrch (Think a more pious Indiana Jones)

    Anyhow, there is a lot of complexity to be found within the class, but it's HARD. The problem is paladins need to get down off thier high (war)horses and be PEOPLE too. If all they do is insert thier rod of holiness and strut around acting holier than thou, myeah :P


    Fortnight!

     

    Shadowblade225

    Re: Paladins
    « Reply #22 on: July 13, 2006, 09:27:00 am »
    Quote
    Fortnight - 7/6/2006 4:52 PM
      I think paladins are one of the most complex character types one can play,
     
     Yep
     
    Quote
     I think this is where the greater player base is to blame, they expect paladins to be without fault, honest, virtuous and pure as the driven snow.
     
     Hence their complexity. As "divinely focused" as paladins are, the imperfections they have are what make them truly deep characters. Case in point, it's important to realize that my paladin, Michaelis, is a man, with the same feelings, desires, wants, needs, as every man has. He's an imperfect human...who has fallen, then risen...he may fall again. Only time will tell.
     
    Quote
     Lancelot, from the Arturian (or Arthurian if you want) was the greatest of Arthurs knights, devout and pious, yet he was duped into an affair by Elaine of Astolat, whereby Galahad is born, the bastard son of a paladin-esque figure. Lancelot rejects Elaine, due to his love of Guinevere, the beloved of his king. His love for Guinevere ultimately brings down the court of camelot. A paladin with definate flaws, but definately more interesting than Paul the generic Paladin.
     
     If you only knew of some of the stories that have been woven on Layonara regarding a few of these paladins. Something I hope and trust you'lleventually find out.
     
    Quote
     Anyhow, there is a lot of complexity to be found within the class, but it's HARD. The problem is paladins need to get down off thier high (war)horses and be PEOPLE too. :P Fortnight!
     Ugh, how true. On the surface most paladins do a wonderful job here of being traditionally and stereotypically rigid and stern, unwavering in their faith. But there are a few, select few who know the deeper tale behind some of these men and women.
     

    Eight-Bit

    Re: Paladins
    « Reply #23 on: July 14, 2006, 06:32:31 pm »
    I feel that I keep away from the stereotype of a Paladin with Matilda. I keep her in a few layers. The first being her exterior, the next her thoughts, and then her final layer being whatever I would imagine the character would desire. Being that the character is basically myself, in a female form, with a little more crazy and less of my easy-going nature and sheer spite for the world. So she's a snap to play.

    A paladin, despite what everyone thinks, does not take a lot of effort to play. It takes time to adjust to it, and to learn that you will eventually HAVE to be a stick in the mud, while the same time you need to earn the respect of those around you. My best suggestion is to wait until the time arises, instead of being the constant martyr. Break the mold; Paladins are people too, and a dead Paladin, despite popular belief, is a useless Paladin. And nobody give me that "Use in death" junk. Matilda will throw her life away for very few people, and being a martyr is not something a Paladin of the new generation should do. There is a 'safe' way out of everything, even if it means running ten feet behind the party.
     

    silverblades

    Re: Paladins
    « Reply #24 on: July 17, 2006, 04:19:41 pm »
    I think if your not constantly refering to your dietys writeups for code of ethics your not playing a paladin properly. i mean we did state we would play a paladin as per the rules when we submitted a paladin didnt we..?  as forthe stick in the mud .. i dont have that problem..I get many compliments about my bahavior that is atypical of toranite paladins...firstoff charging into battle.. ! ..I tell everyone that the toranite council had decreed it unwise to charge into battle they were loosing too many paladins that way.. and if your not having fun...dont play one..leave it to those that can and enjoy doing so. Dont be a stick in the mud or or the fly in  the ointment or everyone will shun you and want you out of their party and continue bad mouthing paladins because you caused the death of someone charging after monsters like an obtuse dolt..


    There can be only One.
     

    Weeblie

    RE: Paladins
    « Reply #25 on: July 18, 2006, 02:31:00 am »
    Paladins are, as all other classes, as complex or simple as one wants to make them. One just have to read up a little more about the deity in question than what's necessary for all non "divine" classes, and keep in mind that some actions might have even more dire consequences than usual.

    Also notice that there are an extremly big difference between different types of paladins. This might sound harsh, but Lucindite paladins are only required to care about the weave. Everything else comes second. The paladinity (read: oath) itself in this case doesn't say anything about helping others or sacrificing themselves for others (unless it's a Lucindite, of course!). So, technically, they don't have to do that. Though... Because of their "Lawful Good"-iness, they tend to do that anyway...

    In my opinion, Toranite paladins are (tries to be) the closest ones to the general stereotype paladin. But if one reads the oaths word for word, one notices that nothing in their Code actually says anything about "Thou art stupid and shalt always charge into hopeless battles.". Even a Toranite paladin would probably stay far away/run if he saw an Ancient Red Dragon shewing on the bones of some poor village people (to quote Eight-Bit: Paladins are people too, and a dead Paladin, despite popular belief, is a useless Paladin). On the other hand... Staying inactive if seeing "an innocent girl screaming for help while being chased by two drunk sailors" would clearly go against the spirit of the code (a no-no!).

    As with everything else, different characters (and players) have different ways to handle it. To give another example (I love those!): My own character is a cleric of Aeridin and like a lot of other Aeridinites, she would rush into the middle of a battle to heal someone dying without any thought about her own life. Result? Heh, 75% of the time, she died (and reached the person too late anyway). And usually when that happens, the party is doomed too (losing cleric = bad!). So, after "unpurposefully" dying a couple of times and bringing her party with her, she finally came to the conclusion that she might be more useful alive than dead, even though she would have to leave a dying person. Might be a little bit unaeridinitish and pains her everytime she does that, but she knows that's the right thing to do.

    The same would work for a Toranite paladin, I guess. Rushing into battles and getting killed 20-30 times will -even- make Toranites think "Uh... This -might- be a bad idea!". :)

    Most of the time, no path is more "correct" than others. Common sense is the main key here (as usual). ;)
     

    Timmy0420

    Re: Paladins
    « Reply #26 on: April 15, 2007, 12:26:57 am »
    so you can only have a paladin who's god is mentioned as having them in the hand book? if so i think this is a bit narrow and that any NG or LG god should have them *wants to make a paladin of shindaleria heh*
     

    Weeblie

    Re: Paladins
    « Reply #27 on: April 15, 2007, 05:36:53 am »
    Yes, you can only have a paladin of who's god is mentioned in the handbook (Rofirein, Aeridin, Toran and Lucinda).

    The reason is rather simple: The other gods do not have paladins. ;)

    Sidenote: Rofirein is LN.
     

    Timmy0420

    Re: Paladins
    « Reply #28 on: April 15, 2007, 09:31:48 am »
    well what if some righteous warrior wanted to start an order of paladins for his particular (NG or LG)god? *sheepish smile*
     

    Weeblie

    Re: Paladins
    « Reply #29 on: April 15, 2007, 09:58:30 am »
    Quote from: Timmy0420
    well what if some righteous warrior wanted to start an order of paladins for his particular (NG or LG)god? *sheepish smile*


    That would actually be of no problem at all... Except that the righteous warriors in question would not be granted any power from the god/goddess (i.e. they would not be allowed to pick the Paladin class, but rather be forced to use the Fighter class instead).

    You see... Paladins are a little bit more than simply warrior-followers: They are favoured by the diety himself/herself which is shown in game mechanics by the extra abilities Paladins are receiving. Now, the deities' not having Paladins for the moment obviously have no intention on picking those "chosen knights".

    So, technically speaking, it is not possible for the mortals to suddenly create such an order AND receive the benefits like all other Paladin orders, as they would have no support from their "master"...
     

    Timmy0420

    Re: Paladins
    « Reply #30 on: April 15, 2007, 10:06:25 am »
    so how does one petition ones god for powers that paladins have? and btw, is there a new hand book in the works for v3?
     

    Weeblie

    Re: Paladins
    « Reply #31 on: April 15, 2007, 11:32:47 am »
    Quote from: Timmy0420
    so how does one petition ones god for powers that paladins have? and btw, is there a new hand book in the works for v3?


    There is a very easy answer to that: You cannot.

    And, yes, there is a handbook in work for V3 which is... um... being released anyday soon (hopefully). :)
     

    Timmy0420

    Re: Paladins
    « Reply #32 on: April 15, 2007, 01:21:50 pm »
    : ( why do so few gods have paladins?
     

    darkstorme

    Re: Paladins
    « Reply #33 on: April 15, 2007, 01:47:15 pm »
    Paladins are the pinnacle of good and righteousness under the law.

    And even going by the one-step rule, only the following deities could have paladins:
    • Aeridin - has them already
    • Beryl - gnomish god of gems.  A paladin might look a bit odd - and can it be justified?
    • Folian Sp'ae - I can't imagine a paladin of Folian wearing anything but leathers or light chain, which would greatly reduce the effectiveness of said paladin.
    • Grannoch - Generally only followed by giants, and possibly half-giants.. who cannot be LG, which is the required alignment for Paladins.
    • Lucinda - Has 'em already.
    • Rorfirein - Has 'em already.
    • Shindaleria - Worshippers almost exclusively sea-elves - who can almost never be lawful.
    • Toran - Has 'em already.
    • Vorax - Has 'em already.


    So, of the deities, 9 qualify, five of which already have paladins, and the other four don't exactly fit the role of patron deity for pillars of righteousness.  In a word, that's why.
     

    Lord Dark

    Re: Paladins
    « Reply #34 on: April 30, 2007, 02:57:54 am »
    I play a Paladin of Toran, they are not the strongest fighters and cannot cast to many spells. Anyway, if you want a evil paladin that can smite good or cause diseases, I believe a Blackguard (prestige class) will be your best bet. Just a suggestion!
     

    Faldred

    Re: Paladins
    « Reply #35 on: April 30, 2007, 09:31:34 am »
    Quote from: Lord Dark
    I play a Paladin of Toran, they are not the strongest fighters and cannot cast to many spells. Anyway, if you want a evil paladin that can smite good or cause diseases, I believe a Blackguard (prestige class) will be your best bet. Just a suggestion!

    Layonara does not use the Blackguard PrC.
     

    miltonyorkcastle

    Re: Paladins
    « Reply #36 on: April 30, 2007, 12:55:01 pm »
    For  listing and descriptions of the PrC's Layo does use, visit the [LORE]Classes[/LORE] page in LORE.
     

    Lord Dark

    Re: Paladins
    « Reply #37 on: April 30, 2007, 01:26:16 pm »
    Oh I see, nevermind then.
     

    Faldred

    Re: Paladins
    « Reply #38 on: April 30, 2007, 02:51:43 pm »
    Quote from: Lord Dark
    Oh I see, nevermind then.

    To be fair, the class does exist, renamed to Unholy Champion (Corath/Pyrtechon only), but since they require a Chaotic Evil alignment, they are impossible for PCs to qualify for.