The World of Layonara
The NWN Persistent World => Server Rules => Topic started by: Leanthar on November 15, 2004, 06:56:00 pm
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I would like to request that people do not go around polymorphed in town nor to buy and/or craft while polymorphed. Buffed is fine.
I can hear it now.. But why?
There are a number of reasons...
#1) Keep in mind that the towns are NOT just PC's or the small amount of NPC's that you see but rather many many other peasants. Seeing trolls and such running around would totally freak them out and you being a hero (for many of the alignments at least) you would not want to do that on such a large scale. For those that don't care (alignment) I ask that you respect this request as it needs to be the same rules across the board.
#2) In a PnP game I and/or the GM's can control things at the table but online we can not simply because we are not there all of the time so again I ask that you respect the request.
I could go on but hopefully this is enough.
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Take Hlint for example.... Say you are coming back from the East getting sand, clay, or perhaps a trip from Haven Mines...The Craft hall is just inside the gate so change back to your natural form before going thru the gates.
Want to get to the Smithy? Simple... stay in polymorphed form and go around town to the north. Then come in the North Gate or East gate switching back to normal form just before entering town. If your coming from the West ( red light mine, or seilwood mine) same thing... change back to regular form before entering the West gate.... and if you want to get to the craft house.... swing around town to the north and come in the East gate.
At one time one of my characters made a deal with Garrent that he would tie a red band on his arm when he was in town in polymorph form... it was nice roleplay... but if we all just do as Leanthar requested then you don't have to get upset if Garrent attacks that troll first and asks questions later. :)
G-452
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Always knew Garrent was prejudiced, ignores ogres and giants and drow but a poor innocent troll wanders into town and there's an uproar, HMPH! No wwonder I left town. Even if I always was polite enough to stay invis while in troll form.
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Its always a intresting sight to see a Troll running around town or a Umberhulk...
I get confused when I see them, and have to double check if they are a PC.
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Does this go for wildshape as well? I have RP reasons why I ask - ones that even make sense.
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This includes any shape that is not your natural shape.
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So what about running around the town with your familiar or summons? I have seen bear, panthars, dragonkin, skeletons with flaming swords ( I am guilty of this one once in awhile), ect... If the peasants are going to be frightened by us in polymorphed form wouldn't this apply to having the formentioned creatures?
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I would treat summons the same way as Polymorph. Release them or un-summon them once you enter town. Seeing a bear running down mainstreet or a Skelleton or a Slaad would all cause anywhere form mild concern to wide spread panic with the common folk of any given town.
We don't have the DM staff to enforce this so everyone is on their own to respect these things.
*waits for L's official response*
G-452
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I'm sure you're right guardian. There's also the components to consider as well, for summon spells. Simply put, if you know you're going to town shortly and don't want to waist components, don't use summon spells.
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When i return from a ore or sand run i walk into the town as a troll and i will continue to do so ( heh thought i was going to start flaming and arguing ) I am just invisible so it shouldn't be a problem....or is it?
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Just to throw my two cents in. I believe the polymorph thing is a good move except for several things. One, Some polymorph in town is consistent with roleplaying. if there is a reason to morph (a good one!) then it should be acceptable. (i.e. an attack occurs and you morph and fight). And two, If the Morph is something non harmful that is fun to R.P with people. Like a pixie. It is fun to flit about and talk in a high pitched voice. Doesn't hurt or scare anyone...simply makes more RP opportunities.
Finally, on the familiar issue. Everyone in Layonara understands some about wizards. They know wizards have familiars. As long as the familiars are not scary....i.e. hellhounds and such...then I think it should be okay. My familiar talks to other people in Roleplay. it is a faerie dragon and intelligent. it provides fun RP. Just my two cents.
-Trace
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I played on a server that wouldn't allow pets in towns and it took away from the role playing greatly. Turns your character pets basically into fighting machines with no real rp value. How do other characters really get to know your character and their pets if the only time they get to see them is outside town and lets face it if you are outside town then 99% of the time your gonna be killing something or getting crafting resources.
Polymorphing and shapechanging is pretty much the same way. I can understand if you don't want people using it for crafting...that's one thing I can understand and agree with, but to take away a great role playing tool like that...I mean come on. You really can't jump on shapechangers for being monsters in town when you've got orcs, half-orcs, goblins, tieflings, half-giants, ogres, drow, and dark dwarves as PCs running around these very same towns. They would scare the crap out these peasants just as much as a troll or pixie would.
I honestly don't see why all the sudden you need to change the rules and I honestly don't care about the imaginary peasants...I care more about the interaction between players, the role playing, and taking away these things just hinders roleplaying in general. I say leave things the way they were and just set up a rule that says you can't use polymorphed/shapechanged forms for crafting purposes. A simple rule like that puts everyone on the same playing field as far as crafting goes and let’s face that’s what this is really about.
Sorry if I sound harsh in anyway that not my intention, but I am passionate about this and really do feel that it makes more problems then it fixes and takes away from certain classes and characters roleplaying.
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Alright... I have thought about it some more. Not quite sure why I said "in town" before but *shrugs* I did so lets fix it.
I don't want people polymorphed while crafting. I suppose it is okay to go around town polymorphed and/or with pets. Though personally I think it is bad RP in certain towns/cities in some cases (undead, trolls etc.) but to each their own. I am tired of being the big bad police and I am certainly not here to take the fun away from the game (although it seems some people think that is my sole wish), but I am here to keep things balanced and in RP (as best we can).
Hope this helps in some small way.
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Leanthar! *smiles* You are NEVER the big bad police! haha You are the glue that holds this most wonderful place together. Sorry you feel like a gripe magnet sometimes, and I hope that changes. People will always be unhappy about something and every decision will make someone mad. Just the way it goes. I think you do an awesome job balancing all of this. Thanks for your time! -Trace
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Thanks, Leanthar.
I hope I didn't come off as sounding sassy or nasty in my question, for I just wanted clarity on the situation and added the rest to stop myself from telling the whole community what my RP reasonings were. Actually I was pretty happy with the timing of the declaration, as the one it pertained to is actually... well, suffice to say, it was good timing. I'm still not going to broadcast my entire RP to the community. :)
I always thought that a bear dipping its paws into the tanning tubs was quite an amusing image; not to mention a badger! But not a realistic one.
EDIT: I agree, we should respect others when RPing. Expect comments or bad reaction to it if you decide to do this. As Maedhras I've had all kinds of comments, good and bad, when running through Hlint as a panther, or a bear. But as I've said I had an RP reasoning for that, and it was actually something that the character needed to slowly become aware of over time, though it made this player cringe at how cheesy it might look to others. It would take people running away from her and RPing out the consequences of a bear/panther/wolf running unattended through the town for Maedhras to get a clue.
This was a rare circumstance I'm describing; I wouldn't recommend that everyone start doing that, or else the GMs would be perfectly in their rights to send in polymorphed bad guys that the townspeople wouldn't react to but would stomp everyone in Hlint flat before we could blink. Or having a mass of "real" bears bashing down the gates, etc.
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The problem lies when we have situations where people are actually forced not to play their character....
Example... a Paladin sees some witless wizard strolling down main street with a summoned skeleton following him...
Because of PvP the Paladin cannot act as they should ..... smiting the undead creature.
Because of this and other similar situations... I think it is fair to ask that summons and polymorph etc.... not be used in towns.
But of course this is impossible to enforce.... so it falls into the hands of each player to respect each others characters and the world as a whole.
G-452
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I don’t see why the wizard has to be witless. I mean he could be a necromancer and that undead could be his personal assistant and or bodyguard to protect him from the overly righteous paladin…I think you see the point I’m trying to make there.
Each character is unique and just as that witless wizard should respect the paladins views that very same overly righteous paladin needs to respect that wizard and his view. Saying that there are situations where people are forced to not play their characters is wrong. In my opinion they choose not to and complain because it is easier then role playing an argument they might not win with said witless wizard. If both sides role play and respect each other then their really won’t be any problems and lets face it there were no problems before this and there really is no need for rules like no pets and no shape changing in towns.
I think Leanthar has made the right decision. People shouldn’t be using polymorphed forms while crafting and that is where all this came from. As far as bad rp to be shape-changed or polymorphed in town. I don’t think it is at all. Let the player decide what his character would or wouldn’t do with such abilities.
Besides pets and shape-changing make for some interesting and fun roleplaying for a lot of people out there. Talking it out of the towns where people meet up just takes away from the fun and weird stuff that happens.
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Highway Man - 11/18/2004 4:01 PM
Besides pets and shape-changing make for some interesting and fun roleplaying for a lot of people out there. Talking it out of the towns where people meet up just takes away from the fun and weird stuff that happens.
I still remember the day the half giant met the Umber Hulk that then changed into a pixie. That was quite amusing to watch.
I said in another thread and believe it holds here that the majority of Laayonara players are mature enough to conduct their own RP how they see fit. That being said, I wholeheartedly agree with the thought that you shouldn't craft while wildshaped/polymorphed. It's a realism question - a troll might have the dexterity to do it a panther doesn't (and who would fish out the badger or pixie from, say, the curing tubs?), but people are going to run and/or go for their weapons when they see them amble into the craft areas.
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Let me just start by stating compliance. I'll abide by Leanthar's decision. Bottom line. I understand the difficulty of running a server and keeping everyone entertained (let's face it, that's what the place is for - and doing *very* well at it, too). You are the cop, but I think you're doing well. Not the "big, bad" cop at all. Heck, I'm addicted to the server already.
Then my 2 cents (or 3 coppers, whatever) -
If the ruling is in place to balance the crafting, then the druids that would wildshape need some ability to harvest trees, or collect gems. Katia's followers unable to harvest her bounty? As do bards, for that matter, and wizards/sorcerers should have some way to collect gems/metals. Spending a valuable feat just to harvest the trees to make instruments is unbalancing. Using the characters' abilities (bull's strength, cat's grace, wildshape, polymorph, whatever) to even the odds with other characters' (fighters, half-giants, etc) natural abilities is role-playing.
If it is for realism (RP purposes), we need to keep in mind that a bear with his paw in the tubs is only unrealistic because we can't really wildshape to do menial tasks in our everyday world. Let's face it - if we could do that, we'd see it everywhere. Construction sites would have people that could shift into a minotaur form as supervisors. Disney would hire druids that could shift into dolphin form to perform and/or train every animal they had at SeaWorld. Those that could take a bird form would be the only messengers/delivery service people you'd see anymore. It would be commonplace. Could you picture a better lifeguard? Not to mention military.
As far as releasing familiars and/or companions at the gate - that's a bit unbalancing, too. With the rule of not resting more often than every 10 minutes real time (a rule I whole-heartedly agree with), if you're just coming back into town to deposit your loot you end up having to wait entirely too long before you can resummon and go back out into the world.
Please understand that I'm not trying to get Leanthar to change his mind, only describing the difficulty I've found in the crafting system. I do understand the reasons behind the RP rules, and appreciate the effort put into keeping Layonara a role-play server. Shapeshifters are notoriously hard to balance back into the game.
Oh, and to get the amplification question answered: does the restriction also apply to hauling 150 logs, or a ton of ore back to town?
(by the way, this references my question http://www.layonaraonline.com/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=7800 posted before being directed to this thread)
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My comment about the bear with its paws in the tubs came about because I didn't think they'd have the dexterity in their paws to work the leather properly. All the strength in the world isn't going to help if you can't work your hands to doing it.
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actually, this is an old rule thats been in place since V1, just people forgot about it, this ruling is the reason most crafts require you to hold something in your hand to craft (if your polymorphed you can't equip anything)
you can still have summons in town i would suppose and while yes running through town while as a troll may be easier on you since your carrying so much stuff, don't be surprise when people run away when they see you coming, or if you get followed by some angry warriors there to find out why there is a troll in the town
if a person has an undead summon with them, and you are a paladin, don't think you absolutly have to attack the undead and smite the necromancer, as for most paladins in layonara the codes state violence is a last resort, if you want to yell at the necromancer about how his companion is an abomination to all lifeforms and that he shouldn't pull some poor soul from their eternal slumber just so he can have a body gaurd, go ahead, but expect a witty and snide comment back
honestly with all the rangers, druids, mages around seeing animals and tiny dragons is fairly common place and while some tailors might look at a bear and wonder what he'd look like as a rug, doesn't mean that they would look out of place, although any commoners in some small towns (not counting Hlint here, lets face it is there anything that could happen in hlint that would shock people?) might find the companions/familars a little odd and children would probobly gather around in awe
anyway i'm just rambling now anyway so i'm done, no crafting while polymophed simple as that and it's not a hard rule to follow really
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As to this question... "Oh, and to get the amplification question answered: does the restriction also apply to hauling 150 logs, or a ton of ore back to town?"
No it does not apply to that. However rest assured that if a GM sees you online crawling (ie slow walking) back to town after harvesting you will most assurely be ambushed (after all you are an easy targer for the bad guys). We have oxen in place so that you do not have to slow walk like that. Now IF we ever get rid of the oxen system then obviosly we will lossen up the rule on slow walking--but until then be forewarned. Oh and if you get killed when slow walking don't get mad at a GM, because after all it is your character that made themself the easy target (can't move fast, can't esacpe, can't run etc.).
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Completely fair. I'm not trying to cause any dissent, just play within the framework. Thanks for the place to play and the great people to play with!
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Bumping so it is not deleted.
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I read the first post in this thread and thought that it was a good idea, sounded logical and on other servers I play on similar guide lines are taken.
That pc's would not wander into town using their polymorphed shapes since the npc's which are not represented would not accept them.
This of course would not be a blanket ooc rule but represented by ic laws. Settlement A, a good human settlement would have its guards shoot on site a zombie form or a troll form. Settlement B, a half orc settlement might not shoot the troll onsight and might let it through. Familiars would be not allowed to go around in public in many FR enviroments thus it would be accounted for in ic laws that they are requested by local authorities not to be summoned.
That a polymorphed character can not take part in tradeskills is also ic'ly logical. An iron golem with hands the size of ale barrels will not be able to tinker around and make a magical ring the size of which is intended to fit a halfling.
But as I read down the list I became a bit more skeptical of the other opinions posted. Most particularly after Highwaymans response, not only with the curious opinion that 99% of the time outside of town is combat/crafting but that it should be a ooc balance issue.
It is totally ic for a mage to polymorph into another form in order to do something. The last server I played on, still do play on, had a crafters guild which would hire out mages to carry ore for them in their enchanced magical forms. The dwarfs would crack the rocks, put them in bags then the umber hulks would drag them. Even more fitting with iron golems or giants.
The polymorph spells are better used in a rp fashion than a combat one, using umber hulks to dig through walls, undead to sneak into a crypt, flying capable creatures to fly and so on. Isnt much point in turning into a giant for combat but is a pretty darn useful one in turning into one to carry a sack of granite rocks, or step over a wall which is curiously blocking the way to all in game avatars.
Granted, a polymorphed creature should not enter town in such a fashion as to be detectable by the npc population but there is no ic reason why they should not be able to do so if none detected. An iron golem could enter under invisibility or greater sanctuary.
Note that this isnt the opinion of someone who crafts, nor even of someone who has a character on this server yet ;) Just an opinion of a nwn player who see's many different servers and ways of dealing with things. After all the core aspect of a rp server is that things are done ic, with ic motivation, action and result. Saying that you cant carry object X when polymorphed because you can carry too much of it doesnt have much of a rp basis.
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I was highly impressed the last time I saw a town guard stroll over and arrest an errant hero for vagrancy and indecent behavior. Apparently, being tired from fighting ogres is no excuse for sleeping in the street and changing clothes in public. The fellow was fined and quickly sentenced. Now opinions may vary from town to town, but I expect law enforcement to be extremely intolerant of people who instill terror in the local population. They might also feel compeled to cage dangerous wild animals. Players who insist on ignoring local conventions should expect repercussions when visiting orderly cities.
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How about badgers?
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I'm interested to know if the following is allowed or not.
My character a LN sorceress has a familiar a pseudo dragon that sometimes does things for her, Like deliver a note to someone they both know or get help for something. This often requires the familiar to got into town alone and without my sorceress pc. WOuld this be allowed or is this not excepted and can I get the familiar killed by merly showing his face in town?
I know it's know use telling he won't attack people ore creatures unless he has no other option. and most of the time he only attacks if his mistress (my pc) is in trouble because she has gotten her self in a situation she cant get out of. (like being serrouded by to many hostile creatures.
so is it allowed to have draconia do small things for Sonya(my pc) or not? I never had problems before with this.but with all the rulles changing i'd like to know before Draconia(familiar) gets killed and sonya does something that could get her killed. Sonya loves draconia like she loves her husband. both a different kind of love but could result in the same action if they get killed.
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I just want to make sure I understand the rules... Bear with me because I'm new here...
I was reprimanded for being in animal shape and having my companion with me in Hlint-- I didn't know of this rule so that's my fault... Though as I understand it now by reading these messages as long as you don't craft, shop, etc. animal shape is okay so I'm not sure if I broke the rules at all.
My druid was conceived as being more comfortable in animal shapes (like the small cat or bird or wolf) than as a human, and she tries to make friends by seeing how people interact with animals (as opposed to walking up to them and saying hey I'm a druid, let's go kill some orcs.) So it's a big part of the role-playing for me if I can take cat shape, etc. when socializing in town (but not buying or crafting.) As I understand the rules this is okay (and I sure hope it is) but if I'm wrong please let me know
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It's pretty much common sense. Don't walk through towns and cities as Bears, Panthers, Dire Boars ect. Birds, cats n' such wouldn't be payed much mind by the towns folk though. And no crafting in animal form. Just don't make sense. That pretty much goes for all Polymorph and Shifter Shapes as well. Use common sense and you'll do fine. (People break the rule all the time by dragging in their Hellhounds, Pseudodragons (guilty) or shifting in Hlint. Just try and catch yourself when you do it. You'll slip up at least once though, we all do it, don't sweat it though.) :)
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What ZV stated is correct. Other than those situations you can freely shapeshift/polymorph etc.
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So I can't get my pseudodragon familiar to go in town and get messages to friends? To bad. Oh whell there goes that RP.
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Consider that should the world be accuratly portrade..your pseudo dragon would have been shot down by the archers on the wall long before it got close enough to distinguish between a wyrmling or familiar
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Or chased out of Hlint with pitchfork weilding peasants because you MIGHT have something to do with the haunted crypt because of that skeleton you have with you
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And certaintly fired up because your in a deadly beast form... wild and dangerous animals.. or exotic forms such at umberhulk would have the town compltelty in war mode to keep you from killing off people.
And consider how angry the mayor and council would be after finding out that you were just a mage... consider that they might punish you or request payment for putting their guards on alert
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thanks for putting it that way doc. It makes it alot clear. I kinda forgot about the idea of the towns having more poeple in them then we players can see. and all the things that would go around them.
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i am told pixies are humanoid and friendly and hence OK to use in town. I RP my pixie familar as my charecters Best Friend and also as a entirely diff being in and of and unto herself a seperate and unique being. Ive been told me many a PC that they think the Pixie is just plain cute ect not scary ( pixies are very small and harmless looking fey ! )
if theres anything wrong with me RPing my pixie in town i need to know :) till then i shall continue using my pixie in a RP fashion ( it is alot of work to keep changeing from pixie to char for back and forth converstaions i will have ya know !! but its fun !! )
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The above rules do not apply to familiars, if I am reading them right.
Also atip, so you don't have to continue to change back and forth, and to allow for smoother and cleaner looking Rp. Type "/dm ; Blah, blah. I'm a cute pixie." Or is it :? Who knows a semicolon or colon on the GM channel before what you want the bug to say.
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/o f
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just ocnfirming, are Faerie dragons ok to haaveo ut in town since they are cute and not scary looking?
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Pretty sure things like ravens, bats e.t.c. are alright. any form of Abberation, Fey, monsterous beast (Dire wolf or badger for example) would be considered a threat Im sure.
The guards arnt going to be dancing about saying: "Ahhhh, a killer raven!"
Common sense as ZeroVega said :p
Edit: 'Would be interesting to see if they can see the difference between a normal common~or~garden raven and an epic raven though :D'
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Pretty sure things like ravens, bats e.t.c. are alright. any form of Abberation, Fey, monsterous beast (Dire wolf or badger for example) would be considered a threat Im sure.
The guards arnt going to be dancing about saying: "Ahhhh, a killer raven!"
Common sense as ZeroVega said :p
Edit: 'Would be interesting to see if they can see the difference between a normal common~or~garden raven and an epic raven though :D'
No, but Emwonk might throw a few lightning bolts at it and yell, "Bird! Bird! Bird!," repeatedly, assuming he isn't too busy hiding, that is.
*winks*
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The Cats are okay though... Just Tell them you fed him too many Accelerated Growth Potions
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No, but Emwonk might throw a few lightning bolts at it and yell, "Bird! Bird! Bird!," repeatedly, assuming he isn't too busy hiding, that is.
*winks*
Just not in front of Plenarius or within his smiting range. Bjorn sweats a little just eating a bucket of chicken nearby!
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first time i ever ran into Plen as Drogo in cheetah form he batted the feathers on his wings in storans
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This thread is now obsolete.
Please refer to: http://forums.layonara.com/layonara-server-rules/227442-polymorph-shapechange-wildshape-forms-towns.html