Next chapter

[jrizz]

Hi L,
The next chapter (running this Sunday) says a party limit of 16. You have 50+ people signed up (I am 24th on that list). How will slots be assigned? I am asking because this is the next big story line and everyone wants to get in on it but I also know that as a DM you want continuity in your party from session to session. But it does not seem fair to fully reserve spots since these are THE quests to be on. So perhaps it can be a rotation of PCs. What I mean is that there can be multiple sets of group that rotate sessions. So the PCs from the last chapter are the group for the odd sessions and a new (not including anyone from chapter one, or the odd sessions group) group of PCs can be the group for the even sessions. And of course due to drop offs there will always be some openings every session for new players to get in on it. What do you think?

[Dorganath]

Leanthar rarely shows any kind of preference for returning vs. new players for his plot quests.  There have been very few exceptions to this, and the only one I can think of is when the party was "stuck" and it was necessary.

Managing some kind of complex rotation will likely not happen, if I had to guess.

I would also guess that the party size and participants will be pared down appropriately in a fair and meaningful manner.

[Leanthar]

What Dorg stated is on the mark. I will need to see how many people actually show up. At that point I will go from there. A large part of the "trimming" will come from the players themselves but if/when I have to get down to getting the final participants I will handle it as fairly as possible.
 
 Sadly...with 50 people signed up (and who knows how many will show up) there will be sore/hurt feelings and once again I will have to deal with "favortism" calls....but hey...five years in to dealing with it so far and it never fails on the plot quests. Sad, but true.

[jrizz]

That is great to hear about how Leanthar runs his quests.

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

Having had a spot of minor importance on the last quest, I'll bow out if more than 30 show up. Other than that, though, I'll leave it to DM preference and dice - we need a solid group who can work together, and we need things fair.

[jrizz]

I am sure you will act with an even hand L. I did not want to put you on the spot I just wanted to offer a way for the most people to particpate. But once again it is really up to us as players to make that happen. Stephen just stepped up in a way that the whole community needs to see. If I make it to this chapter and get to be on the quest I will step aside the next time for someone else. Thanks you Stephen for showing me (and hopfully everyone) how to be a good community member and how we need to do these things and not put the weight on L and the GMs.

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

Oh, I'll be honest. I really want a spot on the quest. *Chuckles.* But if more than thirty show (which I'm sure they will), then I'll bow out. Ditto if we're one over the limit L's comfortable with, and noone else is willing to go.

I suppose if I were 30k XP away from some major level, I'd probably not be as cool about it, but that's life. One just tries to do what one can.

And there's always other quests.

[aragwen]

Stephen, I think it is a very unselfish act to offer to bow out of the quest.
 
 But what one needs to not forget is that people join a quest and get involved at a certain level, perhaps even so involved that they become a critical aspect of success on the quest. Furthermore information is usually learned in a progressive manner and people learn how to work together and get to know each other.
 
 Now what I am trying to say is that even though I appreciate people being unshelfish to bow out of a quest, this might well lead to information being lost or even a quest being failed. We all know everyone wants to be involved in plot quests and everyone cannot necesary be, but I think rotating positions on a plot quest could very well be detrimental to the overall outcome of the quest.
 
 With that in mind everyone need to make up their own mind if they are needed on a quest and will make a positive contribution. The plot quest is not about getting XP (and that is not a stab at anyone) but rather of doing something that will impact the world in a large way. And unfortunately not everyone can be part of the important event. But everyone can have an impact in other ways (and here I mean possible side quests that will be run which will impact the main quest).

[jrizz]

Stephen, I think it is a very unselfish act to offer to bow out of the quest.
 
 But what one needs to not forget is that people join a quest and get involved at a certain level, perhaps even so involved that they become a critical aspect of success on the quest. Furthermore information is usually learned in a progressive manner and people learn how to work together and get to know each other.

I dont want this to be taken as a attack, lets look at it as a debate.

What you stated above is true of most quests and I stated that in my first post in this thread. But for a plot quest what this equals is exclusion. Everyone who wants to be part of a plot quest should have a chance to do so. That is one of the great things about Layo, everyone gets to shape the world.
 
 

Now what I am trying to say is that even though I appreciate people being unshelfish to bow out of a quest, this might well lead to information being lost or even a quest being failed. We all know everyone wants to be involved in plot quests and everyone cannot necesary be, but I think rotating positions on a plot quest could very well be detrimental to the overall outcome of the quest.

Everyond should have the opportuniy to be a part of it if they wish to be.
 

With that in mind everyone need to make up their own mind if they are needed on a quest and will make a positive contribution. The plot quest is not about getting XP (and that is not a stab at anyone) but rather of doing something that will impact the world in a large way. And unfortunately not everyone can be part of the important event. But everyone can have an impact in other ways (and here I mean possible side quests that will be run which will impact the main quest).

Most of us understand that plot quests are not about XP but about being part of the changing force that shapes the world. But I feel that everyone can and has something to contribute to the main quest.

As a parting thought:
If it comes down to a who's hands should this be in (and I know I will get slammed hard for saying this) I hope it is new group of PCs (majority new) that leads this and not just the same PCs that led the last one. I am sure there will be plenty of side quests that will need them.

[Dorganath]

I'm not sure how you can say everyone should have a chance, and then say that it should be the new PCs who lead this one and not the same ones as were in the last.  That just doesn't make sense.

In my honest opinion, it cannot be about who leads the plot quest.  The last campaign was not won by a given leader. The only successes in the last campagin came when those involved worked together.

Now, I do understand completely the desire to be included.  I really do.  Myself, I literally stumbled upon my first plot quest....had no idea it was going on...had no idea what was happening while I was on it, etc.  

Now, I am sure that, for the most part, those who were prominent in the last campaign will be happy to sit back and support the efforts in this one without necessarily being the driving force. I can guarantee you that there will be lore, events and NPCs in this campaign that have their roots in the previous. And guess who has the background on those things?

Leanthar has said this a million and a half times, and I will summarize: work together or we fail.  That goes for individual quests as much as it does for
the campaign as a whole.

I would suggest that worrying too much about who is the "leader" is really the wrong approach, and in doing so, you'll probably start down the road to failure. There really should be no singular "leader" for the campaign.  Often there are one or more for plot quests and that is mainly during those where the group is huge and Leanthar needs some way to control the chaos.

For individual quests, the party generally gets decided by who among those gathered will make the most sense to have along.  That is usually determined by several factors, including the danger involved.

So which is it? Inclusion or exclusion.  In my mind, the focus should be on success, not on who is in charge.

[jrizz]

yep working together is the key to the success of any quest and has been since chainmail rules. But that point is way off what I was saying, true none the less and one that we all need to keep up front and center.
Also my points had nothing to do with who is in charge but to address that tangent, Yes you are right it is not about who leads.

My only point was about whom gets to be in the group that sets the pace of the new plot line. When I say everyone should have a chance I mean that if you already had your run let others have a chance. There will be lots of side quests that need good groups so no one will be left out I am sure.

And again to keep this debate on track it has nothing at all to do with:
1. Who is the leader
2. Working or not working together (this is a given)

[jrizz]

Now, I am sure that, for the most part, those who were prominent in the last campaign will be happy to sit back and support the efforts in this one without necessarily being the driving force. I can guarantee you that there will be lore, events and NPCs in this campaign that have their roots in the previous. And guess who has the background on those things?

This paragraph is a great thing to hear. Your paragraph pretty much says exactly what I had hoped to hear.

yep working together is the key to the success of any quest and has been since chainmail rules. But that point is way off what I was saying, true none the less and one that we all need to keep up front and center.
Also my points had nothing to do with who is in charge, you are right it is not about who leads.

[Talan Va'lash]

The fact of the matter is that not every player on the server can even log into the server at the same time (max 64 players.)

Like it or not there is a limit to "everyone should get to be involved."

That's just a bluntly stated fact. The technological limitations of what the server and NWN can handle were certainly not designed by the layo team to exclude certain players.

[jrizz]

that is understood that is why in the original post had a rotational suggestion. That was said to be to complex to manage.

[jrizz]

having now been a part of one of L's plot quest chapters I would have to say that how the group was chosen was about the best way it could have been done. The group was chosen for the best chances of success. The self proclaimed leader was fair in his picking of members and listened to those around him. It was a tough thing to do but he did it as well as it could be done. I think leaving it up to the players is a good way to do it.