A concern

[Hellblazer]

First of, this is not meant to be a critique, but more to raise a concern that I have. Over the last two years I have seen the submission require more and more in terms of justifications and trainings, even for the more simple classes. While I can understand and even agree that a richer submission, gives more ground and understanding of your own characters, I can't see to shake the feeling that sometimes, some things are not necessary.

Some submissions have been approved even recently without a shred of training out in them, while others have been asked to write up how they were trained.

So I was wondering for the newer players that may come here, if a list of "most standard" class should be made to make it easier for them to prepare their submissions and speed up the process for them? As if we refer to the character submissions and approvals policies, it may be beneficial for them to know which class are intended to go with the paragraph below.


Classes  –
The mechanical classes of Layonara have several wide interpretations and some have very specific needs. Most standard character classes do not require anything in the way of justifying the choice of class over some other in the character submission. As such, a detailed justification for a particular class is an optional thing, and we will not overly scrutinize them, excepting for very obvious glaring issues (I.E. a submission where a sorcerer studies his magic rather then innately acquires it or a level one fighter is taking on whole mobs of orcs on his own, etc).


With regards.
HB

p.s. I wasn't sure which part of the forum would be best suited for this, as it is more of a concern question than suggestion.

[Eeroas]

Thanks HB,

You put it out really nicely! I was wondering same things!

One little addition..
Is there possible to get short explanation in Character Submission and Approvals Policies what is expected to written in bio when submitting one of the races that must have substantial additional justification for choosing?

Maybe just a few pointers what they might be? That would save submitting time from both ends.

~Eeroas

[Chuckles819]

This has also been on my mind lately.

With Neverwinter Nights getting on in age, it is going to be harder and harder to find a good player pool to make the game rich.  For one, eventually, most retail game stores will stop carrying NWN altogether, if they haven't already.  That will dramatically drop down the amount of potential players to near 0 eventually.

So, making the character creation process easier on both the approver and approvee seems paramount.  Looking over the past years and the bios and submissions that met with sufficient approval has steadily gotten more and more stringent.  While I support having a stronger RPing base of players that can have the intelligence, for-sight, and just plain maturity required to create a vibrant and interesting character, there are some things that could be made more apparent to incoming players to make the process easier:

-Being rich, noble, or of any sort of importance in the world makes it infinitely harder to get approved, or at all.  It makes sense that you can't have the privileges of birth that would come to royalty and the amount of "nobility" running around could muddle a lot of story lines.

-Including childhood, family, and early friend relationships that compliment either (or both) class and alignment seems to be the staple of any fleshing out needed for approvers.  This could help out the new-coming player by including on the FAQ a list for each class that links to a page on general things that need to be addressed, such as training for fighters, study for wizards, and etc.

I'm sure I'll have more ideas later about this, but as a rather newcomer myself to this, I realize I haven't put the time and effort into this game that any (and I'm sure) all of the GMs and approvers have.  So .... I don't want to sound like I don't appreciate the amount of time that you put into this fabulous world.  This game seems like it entirely runs off of donations, which I plan on doing so once I get my next pay check, and I salute all of you guys for your hard work.

So, please don't kill/shun me for saying my 2 cents ....

And thanks for listening

[Dorganath]

I'll let the CA team speak for themselves here, but it is still very possible to get a "simple" character through the submission process pretty quickly.  This can and does happen.

The key is often in the length and complexity of the submission by the player, as well as things that just don't jibe with lore or any standard of reasonable. On the former, the more details that are given, the longer it takes to review them and the greater chance that there's something that doesn't work or which needs clarification.  More often than not, it is not the simple submissions that are hung up but the really rich, quirky and/or lengthy ones.

I understand the motivations for longer and more comprehensive bios, as well as the "mold-breaking" sort of ideas to have some sort of character that is unique in some way. My first character here had a short bio, because I knew nothing of the world.  My next two had more details and they had more complex personalities right from the beginning. Even so, they didn't try to push any boundaries or invent anything new. I personally enjoy writing a lengthy back-story for my characters, but I try to keep them reasonable as well.

I also understand why people write characters who are already "heroic" from the first moment.  But often times, this has to be reigned in a bit.  For instance, someone who is the sole survivor of an orc raid on their village taking up a sword for the first time (see also: Level 0 Fighter) and slaughtering the same tribe of orcs empowered by rage is not really all that possible. It's a good story, but not likely without training.

Anyway, my point here is not to point the finger solely at the players, but in my observation of the process over the last several years, there is just as much culpability on the part of the players as on the CAs, whose job is probably the most thankless one we have.

For complete honesty, I too have been critical of the CA process at many points over the last several years, though I do respect the difficult balance that they have to make. I myself would err a bit too much on the side of leniency (though sometimes too far to the opposite), which is why I don't actually do character approvals. *grins*

So my advice?  Keep it simple, or more simple at least.  Write up their basic background, the basics of their personalities and motivations, and keep all the deeds and the more complex parts of their personal development for in-game.

Also, if you are set on something quirky and unique, work with the CA team, which is more than happy to help you reach a reasonable compromise.

These are suggestions, of course, from a guy who has only submitted 3 characters since October 2004, so take it as you will.

Last comment.... there are changes coming, folks.  If you think that the GM Team in general and the CA Team in specific has not heard the semi-regular complaints, then you are mistaken. But even in this, everyone has to realize that players have just as much responsibility for the state of the process right now as the CA Team. This is supposed to be a cooperative process, not an adversarial one.  Please try and keep this in mind.

On that note, I will leave it to one of the CAs to comment further, if they so choose.

[stragen]

I would like to see the rule for the simple PrCs, which are not approved at creation, to only require an update Biography, as a minimum.

That is if a biography is sufficient for approval at creation.  An updated biography should be sufficient for approval at a later date.

The same should go for adding multi-classing (with a non-restricted base class) at a later date.

Requesting an additional two weeks of CDTs entries or a CDQ will make for a more detailed justification for a new class.  But is it necessary?

I love to see players in the game playing, and GMs running quests.  

These days when I log on, it is not uncommon for me to be the only player on the server, which usually means I log off after a few minutes.