Ask the Loremaster: Aragen

[EdTheKet]

LORE: Aragen is up.

Major change: Aragen is now neutral to all (but not all are neutral to Aragen).

[lonnarin]

Nice!  Keep up the good work!  The only thing that I personally would suggest is a medieval/reworded form of the classical Scientific Method that might be interesting to put into his section of the upcoming 200 pages of deity handbook.  Also, the Goranites should definitely be allied with him (on their end of things) as he is the king of science, and science leads to invention.

Steps of the Scientific Method as we modern folk know it
--------------------------------------------------------
1. Define the question
2. Gather information and resources (observe) -though they may also publish these initial findings for other observers
3. Form hypothesis
4. Perform experiment and collect data
5. Analyze data
6. Interpret data and draw conclusions that serve as a starting point for new hypothesis (this part may be omitted as he has no bias perhaps, this new view of his might mean that Aragenites make no conclusions, just show the data as it is gathered)
7. Publish results (typically this is left to step 7 for the modern scientific method, thoug I see Aragenites as publishing EVERY step on the way.  In fact, they should publish EVERY step, just so the knowledge is never lost)
8. Re-test (frequently done by other scientists/Aragenites. Some kind of creed as to how all knowledge, even that which is taken for granted, must always be retested so that it is confirmed to be valid)

Of course that's mainly because I'm a Clinical Psychology/Biology/Chemistry geek tainted by modern learning.

Loving the new changes so far!  In particular his new approach to not having any bias in data collection.  You rock Ed!

*eagerly awaits the next update*

[EdTheKet]

LORE: Aragen's Temples has been added.

[Shiokara]

Hello,

This is going to seem like a strange idea, perhaps, but what if clerics of Aragen were allowed to take the trickery domain?

I don't think Aragen is a trickster, mind you, but I think it makes a lot of sense for clerics who don't wish to influence events by being perceived to have access to spells that make them invisible. Similarly, it makes sense they might want to be better at hiding and moving silently as well.

Bonuses to skill checks like pick lock seem appropriate to me because they are merely trying to get into locked places in order to record events that usually go undocumented.

The way I see it is that, aside from the knowledge domain, Aragen's clerics may currently focus on either protection in order to safeguard the knowledge they keep, or travel in order to travel, observe as much as possible, and flee when their position is threatened. The trickery domain would provide a third option--a cleric who can seek knowledge out undetected and without influence on his world.

[EdTheKet]

Interesting suggestion.

I'll discuss with somebody that knows mechanics/builds/stuff (I don't) to see if any domain combination with Trickery is powerbuild prone.

[EdTheKet]

Hello again,

I've discussed this and we have a reason why no deity has both the Trickery and the Travel domain.
This is because then those clerics would get access to improved invisibility (from Trickery) and to haste (from Travel) which would make it perfect for a very strong cleric powerbuild.

Luckily for the Aragenites, all clerics have access to Sanctuary and Greater Sanctuary so they can be present at events and record things without interfering.

Bonuses to pick lock would then not be there of course, but that'd make them slide towards to rogue-like too much I think.

So while it was a good suggestion, we won't be implementing it because of the Haste/Imp Invis combo.

Thanks!

[Acacea]

I don't believe that Aragen is a good fit for the trickery domain, but that the reasons given are kind of soft. If domains fit a deity, then the potentially frightening powerbuild combination should be irrelevant, given that canny players can powerbuild most things while not-so-canny people can really bomb even a supposedly failproof combination (an age old argument, but still valid).

It is inaccurate to say that there are none possessing both - Kith has both, for example. So does Shadon. Deliar does not have trickery but would be a decent candidate for it if you're familiar with the themes behind "money" which is what most see at first glance.

I don't think that any domain should be granted for a single spell, though, or close to it. We're constantly judged by our class choices for the feats that we acquire, whether or not we plan on using them in that fashion. Should we not be looking to the writeups for domain additions, if they are our bibles? Anyway, adding an entire domain, not because there is a whole sect trained for it (like Lucinda used to have the Guardians), but because they can go invis, would be kind of meh, and counter to what we are always being told about mechanics.

I'd hope that if it were considered a good fit to the new theme of the deity, that potential powerbuilds would be irrelevant, especially since clerics are expected to stay out of messes (however that works as an adventurer ). The real issue for me is that it simply doesn't seem to fit that well, and if it can be made to fit Aragen then it can be made to fit most deities (though there is something to be said for that). As well, with the long years Lucinda spent using the Trickery domain as a ward of knowledge to itself, having it disappear and then pop up with Aragen so he can cast invisibility would kind of rub the wrong way, heh... but I admit to the possibility of bias there

So yeah, on the one hand I agree, on the other "haste invis" is a bad reason and it's inaccurate to say that no deities have access to that combination. This late in NWN's lifetime it's kind of sad to see the first response to a suggestion as "let's see if you can make a powerbuild out of any of these domains and that will provide the answer." \

Call me a broken record, I guess.

[EdTheKet]

Allright, so it wouldn't be the only deity with them both. My bad.

Let me rephrase it then.

Giving Aragen the Trickery domain wouldn't make enough sense lore wise and with the additional powerbuild option it won't be done.

[Shiokara]

Is it possible for Clerics of Aragen to take both the trickery and travel domains if it is required that they take Knowledge as one of their domains? Am I mistaken in thinking that only two domains can be chosen? If this is the case it is impossible for someone to have a travel/trickery build under Aragen.

While I understand that the inclusion of a domain based on the spells it grants seems like one that is mechanically based, it was not. It was an idea I had been mulling over for a time based on RP. I just thought it made a lot of sense for clerics who don't want to influence things to know those spells. I didn't think of the domains as being something that is IC knowledge (similar to alignments). Rather, the domains can be RPed more as the powers that the deity grants or something of that nature. This way one is not a "travel" cleric per se, but a cleric whose deity allows him/her the gift of free movement.

Nonetheless, thanks for looking into this Ed. I looked up Sanctuary and Greater Sanc. and I suppose that gets the point across so long as the player is RPed as being imperceptible. Though it's a shame Aragenites are missing out on all that info behind closed doors.

[EdTheKet]

All of LORE: Aragen is up.

Get to it via the Aragen page on LORE.

[ShiffDrgnhrt]

Hey, why is LORE: Aragen: Allies and Enemies lacking the information that's somewhat important there?

[Script Wrecked]

Because Aragen is only concerned with knowledge, he is neutral to most. However, most deities are not neutral toward him.

Hope this helps.

[ShiffDrgnhrt]

Right but most isn't all and which ones he's not neutral to should be known. I'm just asking why they aren't listed, unlike most of the other deities.

[Script Wrecked]

At a guess, and given that there isn't a chart, I would say "most" is "all".

However, the [LORE]DeityRelations[/LORE] page needs to be updated to reflect this.

[miltonyorkcastle]

Right but most isn't all and which ones he's not neutral to should be known.

Aragen remains neutral by mental choice (logic), but not necessarily by feeling (emotion). And before you ask for details, some stories are reserved for a different medium, at least for now. What is posted in LORE reflects how his clerics should interact with followers of other deities; they should be neutral, as that is what Aragen wishes for them to be.

As for the [LORE]DeityRelations[/LORE] page... we're working on that one, heh.

[ycleption]

Since its come up here, [LORE]DeityRelations[/LORE] has been updated. Thanks to OneSt8 for being patient with me and helping us implement the update.

[EdTheKet]

LORE: Aragen now has a picture of the Wise God.

Feedback on pictures is always appreciated, I'd like to hear what you  think.

[55060hacker]

While Trickery/Travel is a forbidden combination, for Aragenites it is not an issue since Knowledge is a required domain, thus eliminating the possibility of Trickery and Travel together.

[EdTheKet]

I think you may be confusing some deities, as Aragen has Knowledge, Travel and Protection as domains. Trickery/Travel is therefore never an option as Trickery is not one of his domains.