Frustrated

[ShiffDrgnhrt]

I agree with what twidget says.

I recently lost a whole ox full of CNR due to my NWN crashing and got denied reimbursment.  Sure, I knew the rules for requesting reimbursements and hoped NWN crashing was a viable reason.  But getting a "Nope, not acceptable, read the rules" sort of response didn't exactly cheer me up.  Now I understand why rules are there and I'm not whining about my request, but sometimes, maybe by accident or because Team Members are just being quick about it, or maybe thats just how they are, how they respond sometimes comes off the wrong way and erks people.

I love this server, this community, and this world, and I accept the fact V3 is still in its infancy.  I also believe giving ol' Soul Mum a vacation to the Bahamas would make for a happier (if more reckless) player base, but as Zerg pointed out their are other "Don't be Stupid, Stupid" systems out there.  I like everyone else want to see my PCs, especially my Favorite one Shiff (gee I wonder why) reach lvl 20 like the next guy, and I did play recklessly at first due underestimating the beasties of Layonara, but I also know that if upon dying twice in a row (lets say within a given amount of time) I was gonna lose 5% or even 10% of my TOTAL Experience, I'd run in circles screaming from beasties if I was gonna die.  That would be like "Hey! I just need 1k XP for lvl 20, Yay! *runs into a Umber Hulk Ambush*  GET ME THE **** OUTTA HERE!"  I want Zerg, and havoc, and any of the other people I enjoy RPing with so much to be able to get that CNR or go Slay giants with Friends and not have to worry about unfair spawns or impossible monsters guarding the CNR, but I also know it takes time for things to balance out, hence why its called "balancing"

I hate lossing an SS like the next guy, and I feel for Zerg because we started playing here around the same time and his #1 PC does have only 2 left (Why I donno but I do know each time sucked), but being that close to Perming would kill my love too.  Hell if you guys went "Hey guys!  Thanks for testing V3 for us.  Everything should be nice and balanced now and as a reward for helping us get here, all PCs made before the V3 release are gonna get their SS's back!"  I'd be like "OH YEAH!  GO TEAM!"  Now Don't even bother telling me its not gonna happen cause I know that (¤¤¤¤) But I gotta say, if I was in Zergs shoes I'd be loving you for giving me back all the SS's I lost due to bugs, bad spawns, and unbalanced CNR locals...  Now I know that leaves a big loop hole open for people to take advantage of things, but hell, I know Shiff isn't getting his back.  Both (although one I still kinda doubt) were my fault for attacking things he had no chance of killing.  But some kind of compensation for things that are truely unfair would be nice for those of us who do fall into those holes.

I just wanted tah say all that.  I hope it makes sense, and I hope I didn't offend any of the Team, L, or anyone else I could possilby insult/offend.  I just want Layo to stay on top of that lil mountain that is "Persistant-Worldom".  I don't like having to drag all the "King's Horses and All the Kings Men so lil ol Shiff can get his CNR Again" either, but I also love to Just RP...  

Zerg, I'll look forward to your visits, as I think yer PCs (even the ones I can't understand) are all fun and cool.

With much <3 to the Layonaranites out there in Internet-Land,
Shiff, Latherian, Yukimura, & Nemo, Respectively
(AKA Me :p)

This is a Post-Posting PS:  I like how da mn is censored but sucked isn't

[Zergon]

First off let me just say this...

1) I am not mad, disgruntled, or in any way upset about V3.
2) I am only stating things that I see or find true.
3) I am very to the point and abrasive to most with my opinions because of the words i choose, but that is not my intent.
4) Play as much as I do and you could write a 1000 page book on what you have seen on Layonara. This being why i try not to go into too much detail.

With that said

I'm sorry to hear you are dissatisfied.  If I may take a few moments to respond to your comments and perhaps you can consider them as you consider whether or not to continue spending time here.

I will alway spend time on Layo it's my favorite server.

I'm not sure what is meant by the "forced" vs. "stressed".  Without going into a deep semantic discussion or detailed specifics, let me just put forth that the rules we have regarding RP (and I assume that is what you mean by "forced") were not always as strict as they are now, but their current state in most cases is the result of a few players taking things way too far.  Some of that is a symptom of a growing player base.  Some of it is a lack of maturity.  When numerous warnings, both public and private were not sufficient to curb certain things which were not in keeping with the spirit of this world, we had to clamp down.  Perhaps we will relax things again, but the community has to keep certain things in mind as we do. Just as some people hide behind PvP rules, so too do some take to stretching the umbrella of RP to cover as much as possible, and sometimes that goes too far.

Forced vs. Stressed
My opinion, not fact, the way i see it (based on server jumping all hours of the night)

1) Forced:

A) I need to say something to the whole group that is out of character to help someone new or solve another issue.
Rather than typing a tell to each individual player i use the // and tell everyone in earshot and we all do this to communicate for a bit then go back to rp-ing..... Problem being... DM spawns hell on us killing some if not most... i believe everyone has seen this a time or two some not knowing what happened or why... some getting soul strands... to me... just unnecessary
and sucks the fun out of gaming... though lots of you will argue about immersion and things that i don't have problems with.

B) XP shouldn't really matter on an RP server so taking someone where they couldn't normally go shouldn't be an issue if the situation was RP'd out and they are willing to take the risk. (yes i see the room for abuse i'm not retarded, just my opinion) In real life i go places and do things i shouldn't NORMALLY do but re-read B) ... willing to take the risk

Personally if someone wants to be lame enough to soak xp then it's on their conscience and not ruining my world.
Although, it's much easier to role play with people if you can go places and do things with them... if you find someone you like why not protect them and take them adventuring with you for "experience" and i don't mean points.
Because that's what xp represents. (i've also seen a complex xp system that doesn't allow xp soaking and shows you what your xp is based on {very nice indeed})
That eliminates the need for a GM/DM to watch over people trying to power game as if your a level 20 taking out a level 1 neither of you gets much xp.

2) Stressed:

Please keep it RP and IC as much as possible
not everyone has a way to communicate with each other than the words on the screen and they don't have irc icq msn aim yahoo xfire or any other program like that and even if they did trying to get a point across would still be hell to accomplish quickly. And being punished for such things is not my idea of fun.
But there is always a time when everyone needs to talk ooc like it or not.

This is valid, and while I understand a system of permanent death is not as appreciated by everyone, it is something that has been a part of this world for years now and it's known up-front.  Overall, the system works pretty well in the capacity for which it is intended.  Having said that, it would be interesting to hear what other systems to "discourage stupidity" have been used successfully.

I happen to be a big fan of the death system on Layonara...

The servers i've played handle stupidity by lengthening time between rests... 3 rests in 12 hour period was one such method along with if you respawn you will not gain xp for four hours. There are lots of ways to discourage doing dumb things.

This cannot and should not be blamed on V3.  There were plenty of avoidable and meaningless permanent deaths in V2 as well, many of which stemmed from a period of time where we suspended the current Soul Strand system.  To be more specific, many players established a pattern of behavior that was reckless and dangerous knowing that there was no real risk. A week into the suspension of Soul Strand loss, I lost count of how many times people asked me to bring it all back.

I am not blaming anything on V3... merely comparing my level of fun between the two versions as a player who knows too much about the game.

Now, V3 has its warts and its growing pains surely, but it hasn't been in place even a month yet.  I was not yet here at the start of V2, but I can say with complete certainty that how V2 was when I started and the V2 that was brought to a close at the end of February were two very, very different things.  There were bugs, yes.  The servers were far, far, far less stable than they are now. The point is, V3 will improve, and it will do so with constructive feedback from the community.  That is very much a key element to Layonara's constantly evolving state. I don't think that can be stressed enough.

Maybe it's the years of programming in my blood (19 years) but if you were selling layonara to someone your company would have flopped.
In my opinion:
Released too early

OK, as the guy who handles these requests, I have both stated and followed through with a degree of leniency due to losses that are the result of bugs in V3.  For a time, I even considered suspending the loss of Soul Strands during this introductory period so that people would not be afraid to help us test, but the loss rate and reporting of such did not seem to warrant it.  So please, do not make assumptions that we don't care about bugs or losses due to bugs. In fact, even in the standard policies, losses due to bugs are valid reasons for reimbursement.

I haven't personally lost a strand to a "bug" in V3, I have lost 2 strands to "bugs" in the game itself. Most recently zerg's #8 due to some wierd invisibility happening where i was still considered invisible even after death and resting, yet everyone could see me.

I will, however, contribute one other piece of information.  The policies for reimbursements used to be more relaxed, but again, because they were abused and their limits pushed by people, we had to tighten them down and establish some consistent standards which I do try very hard to maintain.

...

Yes, they are tested...and which Krandor crypts do you mean? Because they were just updated within the last week.  The previous Krandor Crypts were still the same from V2. The V3 version was reviewed by our lead balancer and I tested them myself up until the point where my test character could not get past a door that required somone to pick the lock.  The V2 version often had a "bring a cleric" stigma to it, but that was by design.  

Now I got you on this one for sure.
And many people that went with me can vouch for my honesty here.
We went into the new Krandor crypts 2 days after it was changed to see what was in there.
The spawns had obviously NOT been tested.
And yes you had to pick the lock... Pixie away!

You could walk around for hours in there and have a constant supply of skeletons to kill... sometimes even overwhelming numbers of them.
Down below you could do the same thing with zombies and that nearly cost me, just taking a look. (curiosity killed the cat)

Again I pose the question... are they tested... and how... and to what extent.
Cause in all my years of programming, that IS NOT TESTED.
Sorry but i'm a bit harsh on programmers/scripters in general.

The next day it was fixed... but my point, I think, has been made.

If it was V3, we would like to know specific things about it, rather than simply "seems untested".  This is very vague and does not do much to improve things for anyone, which is ultimately the goal.

I believe answered above.
I am also a firm believer that if not finished don't add it to the module... take yer time.

And on testing. As this is a volunteer effort, and as our player-base is extremely diverse with characters to match, it simply is not practical to test things out in the variety of combinations that we have to support in the time which we have available. We couldn't hope to test in a month what our players could test in less than a single week.  You should understand this by your background.  And so, we make our best efforts based on experience and whatever testing we can manage, then we observe how it works in a live setting.  If things need to be changed, they are.

And I do understand but my background in manufacturing/sales/programming/experimenting says you don't test something on mission critical equipment (in this case your server where people play, it causes chaos)

My advice... if someone is willing to help have them apply... why wait... find out what they can do... test them... and get em started.

I have volunteered to help.
What is stopping me.
Some Red Tape... I think... dunno... even on IRC i've voiced my willingness to help.

I have many many (15) computers here i could run tests on and i'm sure there would be many volunteer players to log on and test it without damaging their real characters, and wasting more of your time.

We cannot currently do any better than that.

This is absolutely untrue.  In fact, I'd like to hear more detail about what people do not think is quite right about this world.  I hear about so many people who apparently hold back their opinons and valid observations.  There's absolutely nothing wrong with constructive input from anyone, whether they are a brand new player or a long-time veteran.  I see more possibilities in your message here, but it's pretty low on details.  We need those details if things are to improve.

I believe everyone is voicing an opinion about now... I am.
 

Having said that, we do not act on or implement all suggestions we receive, but that does not mean they are ignored, simply that they may not be a proper fit for Layonara or that we have not been able to make them happen yet.  But we have suggestion and discussion forums here for a reason, and the list of community-suggested enhancements to the world is a very long list indeed.

I have issues with your website... new and old and I'm not the only one who has trouble figuring out how things work. and stickies are the devil.

OK, several things here:
1) I hope you do keep the world in mind, and I don't mind saying that we are already working on a review of where CNR is, where it should be and what is between the CNR and characters.  This is a work-in-progress and it is happening. Balance is a process.

Again, already talked about above (see releasing too early)

2) On GM's "scolding" higher level players for helping lower-level players...what I think both parties need to understand here is that again, there is a very high potential (and yes, history) of abuse of the line between justifyable RP and XP dragging.  This has happened way too much over the years and we've heard tons of excuses about why it was thought to be OK.  Higher-level characters helping lower-level ones is OK if done responsibly and with a mind for the spirit of the server.  If said lower-level characters hang way back or flit around invisibly contributing little to nothing to the group, then that's not helping, that's dragging, and it's obvious.  It's a fuzzy grey line, I agree, but it needs to be handled responsibly by all involved.  On the chance that the "scolding" was a bit more, read on.  Well, read on anyway.

Answered above with suggestion on fixing the xp distribution system.

3) As I said, it was considered, and even approved, to shut off Soul Strand loss for a time while we test things out. So far, since V3 has been released, there have only been maybe 2 or 3 V3 bug-related requests of this nature and unless I am remembering incorrectly, they have been approved.  Since the volume has been low, there has been no need to turn off the system, and I am continuing to handle them on a case-by-case basis and even being more lenient to the possiblity of bug-related losses during this time.  We are not cruel, heartless or sadistic.  We do understand the desire to not lose characters, and we have, in fact, resurrected at least one or more permanently dead characters who lost their 10th soul strand due to a situation that should not have occurred. And I am still willing to consider doing this in a controlled way if it seems logical to do so. So far, however, it does not based on what I am seeing.

Though you seem to have made your decision, and I do respect that, I hope at least if you read this you'll consider what has been said and perhaps it will dispel some assumptions, rumors or other negative perceptions. If not for you, then perhaps for someone else.

Doesn't affect me..

BRING BACK ERK!

I do want to address one other point specifically:

This concerned me more than anything else you have said in this entire post.  I'd like to know more about your perspective as to why people fear GMs.  While I know that "us vs. them" idea is out there and has been out there, we do try to keep things as open and fair as possible, though we don't see everything, and if one or more GMs are acting inappropriately (as either their characters or as GMs) then such things need to be addressed.  GMs have to maintain a higher adherence to the standards of this community, not a more relaxed one.

Fearing GM/DM's:
Just back to the issue with OOC and spawning hell on us for doing it.
Also with the xp soaking issue.
And perhaps spawning hell on people for bringing a low level to Dregar or other area's they "shouldn't be" when half the party (if any of the party) was too afraid to ask "// anyone here less than level 8?" or even by neglect... spawning hell on people with a permanent death system is by no means a good decision in my opinion. again opinion.
Makes for angry players.

And to anyone else who may be reading this, if there are questions in your minds that perhaps lead to these fears, then I encourage you to use the "Ask a Gamemaster" forum, in case there are just unknowns that are leading to fears.  

Alright, well it's very late for me now, and so I need to end this.  Do consider what I have written and feel free to ask for more clarification.

I'd also encourage you, with your stated background, to consider applying for the Project Team when applications come back around.  We can always use talented people who are willing to devote time and effort into making Layonara better.

Again, I would love to help but am put on "hold" by red tape... (when applications come back around)

Again, I am not LEAVING.
I'm merely slowing down on Layonara, as some of the things happening here are against my principles (kinda picky about how things are tested as stated above)

You all have my support and I would love to help, I'm just tired of playing under such circumstances and choices that have been made.

Zergon

[Zergon]

Zergon: One of the painful lessens that I have learned in life is that ultimatums only enrage people and make them feel disrespected.  Time and time again the DM staff has asked for our patients with the V3 release.  They have made enormous efforts to not only build V3, but also resolve the bugs just as quickly as they can.  Need I remind you that no one is getting paid to do this work?  Leanthar has stated over and over again that if areas are not balanced, that we should report them as bug reports and they will be reviewed and changed.

I am not bashing the team i'm trying to join it.
I don't want to be paid i want to be a part of a successful team.
I of all people know what they have done here and how much time is involved from setting up the T1 lines to installing what ever operating system (hopefully not windows, but hopefully unix/linux/bsd) to running the servers to admining the databases to building the areas and scripting and rant rant rant

I'm merely at wits ends watching my friends get tired of playing and looking for other servers... then comming to find me to say hey, come check this one out and we'll go here... I DO NOT WANT THAT FOR LAYO!

As far as the "DM's scolding higher level characters" issue... well that is a complex issue.  Perhaps it would  have been better for you to bring this subject up in a constructive manner on the forums or IRC.  I am more to blame then the character in question.  I asked him to help my character, and a couple of others get into a dangerous  area to harvest a CNR that my character needed as a spell component.  What ended up happening, is between point A and point B we kept running into other adventures that wanted to join up  with us in the interest of having fun.  The end result is that a bunch of characters who were not quite high enough level to be in the area we were in, ended up tagging along.  I didn't suggest we should exclude anyone because I didn't think anyone was so low in level, and still don't, that they should be excluded from an outing on the West server.  Also every character was very active, doing everything they possibly could to help with the encounters we faced.

Here is where i feel that you think I am talking about an incident that happened durring a topaz gathering adventure... yes that is one case in point.
BUT hardly the big picture and not what I was referring to.
Me and my girl friend play in the same room and were both on that adventure and the whole time we knew exaclty what was going to happen... we'd seen it many many times before.

Read my reply to D for explanations of my feelings on that matter.

Obviously the DMs that peeked in on us, saw what they felt to be a bad RP situation in progress.  The high level character was pulled out of the party, and talked to by one or more DMs.  Another option the DMs could have used would be to spawn some crazy monsters on us, that wiped out the entire party and brought the soul mother howling and screaming left and right. I think that pulling the high level character out and having a OOC conversation was a healthy way to deal with this situation and maintain a good vibe of all the players that were involved.

You obviously missed the CRAZY monster they spawned on the character in question... he had just recovered from an encounter with one of them and had died from it... was it not for our cleric (name left out) he would have died again and us too.

If you doubt there was such a crazy monster ask the character we both know was there what he fought at the cave entrance and how many tells i sent to him saying that was not normal.
Also ask them how many times someone cast Heal on them to keep them alive.

You were stuck on the stairs so I understand how you missed it...
And, the DM's (two of them, names left out) did spawn more things than were normally there killing one of our party that i saved while bleeding inside the cave.
Then when we all took care of what they spawned on us... that's when they pulled out the character in question and talked to him.

I don't feel I have insulted anyone nor should I apologize for any of my "opinions".

Please read handling xp soaking in my post.

Zergon, I encourage you to re think what you are saying here, and make an apology to the people that work so hard, so that we can have so much fun playing a game.

AeonBlues

I re-read and re-thought what I wrote.
I still stand firmly on it.

Zergon

[Talan Va'lash]

Now I got you on this one for sure.
And many people that went with me can vouch for my honesty here.
We went into the new Krandor crypts 2 days after it was changed to see what was in there.
The spawns had obviously NOT been tested.
And yes you had to pick the lock... Pixie away!
 
You could walk around for hours in there and have a constant supply of skeletons to kill... sometimes even overwhelming numbers of them.
Down below you could do the same thing with zombies and that nearly cost me, just taking a look. (curiosity killed the cat)
 
Again I pose the question... are they tested... and how... and to what extent.
Cause in all my years of programming, that IS NOT TESTED.
Sorry but i'm a bit harsh on programmers/scripters in general.
 
The next day it was fixed... but my point, I think, has been made.

This was due to a glitch caused by something that shouldn't have affected it at all. The playtesting of the areas was done immediately prior to the glitch being inserted.

I'm far too familiar with Murphy's law, but with the size of the PW it is prohibitive to retest "everything" after every change.

I don't think a small glitch being in for 1 day is.. really that bad at all. I've been around the servers and I don't think there is a single one I've been to that updates as regularly as Layo or fixes bugs as quickly.

----

As far as release time and "how done things are," With the volunteer staff that we have, the only way to have released a "polished" version of v3 in one chunk would have been to freeze all updates and attention to the v2 module for many months while we worked on the v3 release and leave the v2 module online. It was decided (and rightly so imho) that this particular path was quite undesirable, so an incremental rollout was decided upon.

----

Re: CNR locations

As I understand it these are going to be re-jiggered (technical term) to once again appropriately match the CR of their areas. However, CNR placement matching encounter CR is not as critical as say... getting the haks working so people can log into the game, making sure all transitions connect properly or fixing possible ambush spawns. So it's a few rungs down the ladder from top priority.

[Zergon]

Just a last thought before bedtime.

The example in the post above is a good example of why players fear DM's
The DM's may or may not have been around for the RP that got us to that cave but all of the lower level characters were warned by the higher level characters to "keep up" and "I can not save or protect all of you it could be your death"

I don't know one character that didn't help in some way, and I don't know one of them that did nothing... making clerics invisible is a good strategy... they take less hits and have a chance to get close enough to heal... after all that's their role. The young cleric that I saved thanked me and returned the favor as that was my last heal and i took hits healing her...

nothing was lost in that trip and every character (even the low levels) did an excellent job keeping each other alive.

Adding very little to the group is still doing something and makes a character feel important... even if only a little bit.
Having an experience with a higher level character at his or her higher level (places they shouldn't be) is a good learning experience and creates goals.
Not to mention, shows the younger characters how much work has gone into success.

Another of my friends has started playing recently and is very discouraged by the acts he's witnessed by the DM's, "blood thirsty" is what he uses to describe them... another one I get in tells a lot is
namehere:Tell: DM Sniper!

Truly there is a better way of dealing with xp issues in the spirit of Layonara than having the nickname Sniperville

If players can't resolve the issues then maybe a new xp distribution system is in order... that takes it out of the DM's hands and puts it into L's hands as he is the one in charge...
PM me for ideas on the scripting issue involved.

Zergon

zzzzzZZZZZZZzzzzzz

[Zergon]

This was due to a glitch caused by something that shouldn't have affected it at all. The playtesting of the areas was done immediately prior to the glitch being inserted.

I'm far too familiar with Murphy's law, but with the size of the PW it is prohibitive to retest "everything" after every change.

I don't think a small glitch being in for 1 day is.. really that bad at all. I've been around the servers and I don't think there is a single one I've been to that updates as regularly as Layo or fixes bugs as quickly.

----

As far as release time and "how done things are," With the volunteer staff that we have, the only way to have released a "polished" version of v3 in one chunk would have been to freeze all updates and attention to the v2 module for many months while we worked on the v3 release and leave the v2 module online. It was decided (and rightly so imho) that this particular path was quite undesirable, so an incremental rollout was decided upon.

----

Re: CNR locations

As I understand it these are going to be re-jiggered (technical term) to once again appropriately match the CR of their areas. However, CNR placement matching encounter CR is not as critical as say... getting the haks working so people can log into the game, making sure all transitions connect properly or fixing possible ambush spawns. So it's a few rungs down the ladder from top priority.

Again, Test Server
another handy tool, CVS

[Talan Va'lash]

Re: DMs Spawning stuff on parties to discourage inappropriate groupings

This is not my policy and I don't do it. I believe ooc issues should be handled ooc and IC issues should be handled IC.

If you happen to be talking about a recent ocurance where I talked to someone about this type of thing, I did not spawn any creatures the entire time I was with the party.

I'm not sure if it was the same incident, but I think often it is assumed for some reason that if a party dies somewhere then it must be because the spawn was abnormal, or if the spawn is at all different from what you see every other time that a GM must be maliciously stalking you.

That is usually not the case, and it certainly was not for the recent incident that I was involved in.

[Zergon]

I'm far too familiar with Murphy's law, but with the size of the PW it is prohibitive to retest "everything" after every change.

I don't think a small glitch being in for 1 day is.. really that bad at all. I've been around the servers and I don't think there is a single one I've been to that updates as regularly as Layo or fixes bugs as quickly.

Just a note from a few players.

Do you have any characters?
I see on your profile N/A
far too many times I don't think a small glitch being in for 1 day is....
maybe if you were Erk you wouldn't agree with that

[Zergon]

Good night all

[orth]

Players control your world.
You may think it's yours but when the players leave, you control the empty server.

 
 No, the people who foot the bill every month for server fees are the ones who control the world.  When they leave, the players uh, yeah...

[Dorganath]

A variety of responses...

I think that the low volume of requests for SS reimbursements may stem from the "must have a GM/WL witness to even consider requesting" is twarting the requests. And then, that falls through at times. After seeing people get criticized for wasting the Team's time with requests that don't have a legitimate witness(es), people think several times before posting, if they ever do.

Fair enough, but V3 notwithstanding, losses due to bugs in Layonara (different than in Bioware's engine) have always been a valid criteria for reimbursement.  Perhaps people have gotten confused by this, despite several efforts to clarify.  If that continues, I apologize.  It is very difficult to write a concise policy that is fair, enforceable and concise.

So let me state here as clearly as possible:  The GM/Project/Development teams are not out to kill off characters. The purpose of V3 was not to be more difficult so that characters would lose Soul Strands and die off permanently. It is intended to be different and represent a changing world, and change sometimes casuse mis-steps but again, permanently killing characters is not the goal.

So for cases of losses due to potential bugs in V3...YES!  Please make the request, or at least ask the question.
 

Second point, how do people know it is a reportable bug if it is a spawn? They may just think that it was ment to be and take their loss.

Ask.
 

As far as fearing GM's...maybe fear is not the right word, but getting bashed in the forums publically tends to turn people off and have a sense of withdrawal and seperation from the GM's. When a GM comes across as "this is how it is and I don't care what people think" or the "don't like it, don't join" attitude, it makes people shy away from expressing their thoughts on it. And not just to the GM involved, but to all GM's. Some folks, I am sure, feel that if they dispute one GM, then they have just taken on the whole GM team.

Understandable.  I can only suggest that if one does not feel comfortable speaking out against a GM (or GMs) to contact Leanthar directly.  He has in the past removed GMs from the team for acting inappropriately (including disbanding the entire team once several years ago), and if nothing else, he should know about unacceptable behavior on the part of GMs. He clearly cannot be online all the time watching everything, and if he doesn't know about something, he can't do anything about it.

For as much as we all love this place, this game world is his baby, and he has a lot of time, effort, love and mental energy invested in Layonara that goes far beyond any of the rest of us.
 

Maybe it's the years of programming in my blood (19 years) but if you were selling layonara to someone your company would have flopped.
In my opinion:
Released too early

A fair comment, but again, if we could sell it and we were selling it, we would be doing things far, far differently.

Now I got you on this one for sure.
And many people that went with me can vouch for my honesty here.
We went into the new Krandor crypts 2 days after it was changed to see what was in there.
The spawns had obviously NOT been tested.
And yes you had to pick the lock... Pixie away!

You could walk around for hours in there and have a constant supply of skeletons to kill... sometimes even overwhelming numbers of them.
Down below you could do the same thing with zombies and that nearly cost me, just taking a look. (curiosity killed the cat)

Again I pose the question... are they tested... and how... and to what extent.
Cause in all my years of programming, that IS NOT TESTED.
Sorry but i'm a bit harsh on programmers/scripters in general.

The next day it was fixed... but my point, I think, has been made.

That's why I asked.

The bug was introduced during a final stage of preparation, one, I might add, that affected a total of 13 areas across the hundreds on all 3 servers. These areas were, in fact, tested and by our lead balancer of all people.  But then after they were tested, I introduced the error inadvertently in a batch-processing step.  So yes, I take responsibility for that, and yes, I fixed it as soon as I could.

But let me just note that this particular problem was reported by no more than one player.  One.  

And I do understand but my background in manufacturing/sales/programming/experimenting says you don't test something on mission critical equipment (in this case your server where people play, it causes chaos)

True...but this is unfortunately not an endeavor where we have the resources to put things through the paces one would normally do for a commercial product.  That may seem like a thin excuse, but if this were our "day job" we would in fact be doing things very, very different.

But we only have so much time, manpower and equipment with which to work.

My advice... if someone is willing to help have them apply... why wait... find out what they can do... test them... and get em started.

I have volunteered to help.
What is stopping me.
Some Red Tape... I think... dunno... even on IRC i've voiced my willingness to help.

Apply...PM Leanthar...or me...or anyone on the team. I might be wrong, but I don't personally remember you stating your interest explicitly before now. IRC, as good of a communication tool as it is for real-time communication is not very good in terms of things we need to remember.  PMs or e-mails work far better.

Again, maybe you have, but I'm not remembering it.

I have many many (15) computers here i could run tests on and i'm sure there would be many volunteer players to log on and test it without damaging their real characters, and wasting more of your time.

This kind of offer is appreciated, but for very valid reasons it is something we will most likely not do.  The most significant and hard-line reason for this is that the Layonara modules have been "stolen" at least once in the past when access to the module source was more freely available to those who could contribute (i.e. GM and Project teams).  As a result, direct access to the modules is restricted to a select few.  This probably will not change.

I believe everyone is voicing an opinion about now... I am.

Yes, but then many people also wait until things get to a point of frustration before even uttering a single word.  I'm suggesting comments before that point.
 

Doesn't affect me..

BRING BACK ERK!

That case is under review, and I'm terribly sorry, but I am going through things as best I can with the time I have.  

Fearing GM/DM's:
Just back to the issue with OOC and spawning hell on us for doing it.
Also with the xp soaking issue.
And perhaps spawning hell on people for bringing a low level to Dregar or other area's they "shouldn't be" when half the party (if any of the party) was too afraid to ask "// anyone here less than level 8?" or even by neglect... spawning hell on people with a permanent death system is by no means a good decision in my opinion. again opinion.
Makes for angry players.

OK, fair enough. In my opinion, "punishment by spawn" is not necessarily the best way to accomplish things, though increasing difficulty and injecting some RP into the mix as a result can get the effect across.  I don't want to get into a "GM X did this wrong" discussion, but GMs should not be trying to kill characters as punishment for rules infractions by their players.

Again...things need to be reported.

On a side note (because it was mentioned by...someone...somewhere)...

The rules about OOC conversations "in the clear" are there because some people have taken to having entire OOC conversations out in the open, which is not good for the immersion of others who may be nearby.

Things like "//gotta go" or "//anyone below level 8?" or similar things are fine.  Things like "// so what kind of music does everyone like?" (and yeah, I've seen that) just have no place in RP.

Again, I would love to help but am put on "hold" by red tape... (when applications come back around)

I believe I addressed this above.  To add, we've taken people onto the Project Team outside of the normal application process.  Take a chance. *shrugs*

Again, Test Server
another handy tool, CVS

Addressed above.

Just a note from a few players.

Do you have any characters?
I see on your profile N/A
far too many times I don't think a small glitch being in for 1 day is....
maybe if you were Erk you wouldn't agree with that

He has several, in fact, one of which has been in-play for 2.5 RL years.

[Ioskeha]

Players control your world.
You may think it's yours but when the players leave, you control the empty server.

That is a very true statement.  I'm not downplaying the people that pay the server fees, develop the world, etc at all.  The true fact is it's the players that make the server.  Have no players?  Why pay the fees and develop for it?  Your player base make or breaks the game.  We are the ones that keep the server active.  And it's arrogant to assume that no matter how much work goes into the world that there will always be people to play it.

[Dorganath]

I believe "control" is the wrong word to use here.  

Control is firmly in Leanthar's hands as the guy who owns the name, the intellectual property and so forth. If he pulls the plug, that's it, and no amount of player input can bring that back if he is done. That does not mean, however, that players are not important.  In fact, they're critical.  Do not think to presume we do not understand that.

Putting down a statement like that only serves to perpetuate an "us vs. them" attitude, when we should all be thinking about just "us".  We're a community, players and GMs alike.  All GMs are players, and we have as much time, energy and emotion invested in this as anyone. As individuals, GMs have the same quirks and failings as anyone else; as a group, we strive to be better than that. Nobody here wants to see the server crumble.

But I will point out that while we try to accommodate as much as possible and as many opinions and suggestions and playing styles as possible, it simply is not possible to accommodate them all.

[orth]

That is a very true statement. I'm not downplaying the people that pay the server fees, develop the world, etc at all. The true fact is it's the players that make the server. Have no players? Why pay the fees and develop for it? Your player base make or breaks the game. We are the ones that keep the server active. And it's arrogant to assume that no matter how much work goes into the world that there will always be people to play it.

It's also frustrating to have this argument thrown into your face every time a particular individual is upset.

It happens over and over and over. As if people think we aren't listening and we aren't trying our best to make it enjoyable for everyone or like we don't care if we have a community. It's a threat, plain and simple. Do this or you're going to meet an empty community. We hear this a lot.

Look at the most recent poll, there are around 80 people who visit this forum at least a few times a day. I bet the majority of them aren't happy with everything in the world but understand we do our best. Are they all going to mass exodus because things aren't going so well? What about the other individuals who don't even visit these forums. What's their voice?

I'm not disagreeing with the notion that players are critical to a game world, but when's the last time you heard Leanthar say "I am the one that makes this world for you to enjoy, I am the one who pays for it, do as I say or else I'll just ban you. This is my world, these are my desires, if you don't like it then leave." How often do you hear this threat?

By all means keep telling us how important each of you are to the world, as if we don't already know, but why it seems to only come out when someone is upset leaves me with a bad feeling. I just keep wondering why you folks seem to believe that this sort of threat really matters when YOU are the one enjoying the privilege to play here.

We are not paying customers, we are guests in our world. You know how much we've made from advertising since we moved over to the new forum - $2 (Thanks to those people who downloaded Firefox with Google).

This is not a business, if evreyone decides to leave then okay it's just a small group of close friends left paying less server fees? We do this because we want everyone to enjoy the world the way we have, to find the friends and magic and be able to escape just like the way we could. It is certainly not because we are trying to horde in a bunch of cash, because you know what I've learned. This community, for the most part, is not willing to pay for anything despite how much they enjoy it, because they know nothing will change either way, pay or not. We'll just keep doing our best, keep acquiescing to your suggestions and demands and keep building for you, keep trying to respond to these sorts of threads in diplomatic, unwavering monotone.

These are my strong opinions, because I think I read we're all supposed to be able to have them and be able to discuss them. So there's mine. In my capacity as administrator I've held it back, most of the time we do, to remain professional and considerate, but there are so many issues in this thread that have me pretty upset. So many misconceptions. Supposed easy fixes to complex problems. Misunderstandings on processes. I don't have the poise Dorganath does.

Good day,
-orth

[OneST8]

(OneST8 begins to vent...)

That is a very true statement.  I'm not downplaying the people that pay the server fees, develop the world, etc at all.

You aren't?

The true fact is it's the players that make the server.

Eh? Did I hear you correctly? Did you just negate your first statement?

Have no players?  Why pay the fees and develop for it?  Your player base make or breaks the game.

I'm very sorry but it's not the players that makes or breaks the game... it's the entire community that makes or breaks the game.

We are the ones that keep the server active.  And it's arrogant to assume that no matter how much work goes into the world that there will always be people to play it.

NwN1 is dying if not already dead. Pure and simple fact. "You" are not the ones that keep the server active. Everyone in this community keeps the server active.

By perpetuating an "us vs them" attitude (as Dorganath so eloquently pointed out) is what will tear this community to shreds and to be quite frank, this "us vs them" attitude repels me and everyone else that has poured their soul into making this world a better place for everyone.

Perhaps we should charge a per month fee for forum access so people can make their "suggestions" (aka: outright demands and threats). This will most likely never happen but I'm just trying to make a point here. If you think for a second that threatening the teams with abandonment is a constructive method of critism and a positive proponent for useful change; you're sadly mistaken. (Had this been a paying subscription community, that's a different story but then again, would we be pouring our hearts into such an enterprise? Perhaps, but perhaps not.)

Leanthar made $40 in donations last month. As orth pointed out, we've made $2 from Google+Firefox downloads. That's $42. Wow. I'm very grateful for those that have donated in the past and I'm grateful for those few that still do.

The actual NwN servers run about $200+ per month US. The server that these forums and LORE run on cost about $130 per month CD [out of my own pocket]. Why oh why did I just authorize another three servers on my credit card, running me approximately $150 each, just to provide a more stable and far more robust web presence for the Layonara community?

Why did orth just spend over 400 hours (a modest estimate) setting up and migrating the old forums to these new ones? Setting up nifty hybrid BBCode tables... tweaking just about every facet of these forums...

Why did Pankoki spend just as much (if not more) time putting V3 together...

Why has Dorganath been pouring himself into this world filling in the cracks and helping out both Pankoki and orth wherever possible...

Why did Leanthar fork out more cash for the licenses of this fantastically advanced forum with all of it's crazy plugins and features...

Why does the GM team slave to put on the countless quality quests...

Why does the writing team even write a single word at all!!!

Why don't I even have the slightest urge to play in this community anymore? Pure and simple. I feel disconnected. The reality has set in. The community of positive reinforcement and genuine appreciation for our team efforts seemingly no longer exists due to the over saturation of this vocalised "us vs them" attitude.

These are all rhetorical questions and warrant no response. Pardon my words but note the sentiment so that the next world you "help to keep alive" is not innundated with such negativity and disrespect for the entire community.

(...OneST8 finishes his ranting.)

I'm sorry. Please ignore my ramblings. I'm just an inconsequential aspect of background noise within this community. Typically I just ignore threads like this and keep doing my job to the best of my ability. Sorry for raising my voice amidst this crowd.

To those of you who genuinely appreciate this community in all of it's entirety, I appologize profusely for allowing myself to voice my personal opinion and rantings on threads like this. Sometimes, I'm absolutely compelled; as in this case.

[Zergon]

No, the people who foot the bill every month for server fees are the ones who control the world.  When they leave, the players uh, yeah...

move to a different server... start their own... servers can be free.

[Witch Hunter]

Zergon, good luck trying to find a server that is as good as Layo or make one yourself.
 
 I've played enough servers to know there is no other that can match Layo...
 
 
 *cough*
 
 Once you go Layo you can't go back!

[jan]

Until people can feel safe about bringing their concerns about the server to these boards this fear will always be here.

You will see in all posts that are criticizing things the same reactions from the same players*shrugs*

I addressed it once in an old post and it didn't help a bit.

Fact remains that putting people down is much easier then picking up on the things they formulated wrong .
I mean, if you can point out it is formulated wrong and that what was meant should be put in other words,then i guess you know what was meant else you wouldn't react to it .
Still people rather burn the hide off the one complaining then help them out putting the things in the right words*shrugs*

Of course everyone ( no matter who) is more interested to protect their friends then to help a complete stranger.
Specially if this complete stranger is in any way asking things that could be seen as an attack on that same friends.

We have seen many rants in the past and will probably see more in the future,some with legitimate questions and others with non-legitimate or even disrespectful question.

I'm sure those off the team that take time to read and answer the rants grew tired after a few, as have most players.

A very nice rant was from someone i wont name , but he asked questions in a respectful manner and formulated it very well.
Every aspect that could be answered by game mechanics,time trouble from the voluntary team and that could be branded as "you don't understand correctly"were answered.
Every other point he made was put under the carpet and over-screamed by reactions from old time players and team members and gm's.
There were numerous replies to this rant , agreeing ones and disagreeing ones
and it simply bled out due to the fact the original poster never reacted to his own post and left the server for a few months.

I myself have been looking around for other servers and came to a very simple conclusion really:
RP on Layo is the best you will find , even those that in my eyes rp wrong are consistent in it so-much that it seems natural and therefor good rp:)

Having a great time playing lately due to a simple change in things.
I only do what i am certain is right, that way avoiding the contact with most team members and gm's on things that views differ and i can truly say that it has brought the fun back in playing.

I no-longer get upset if others play a good char with a god they follow and go out with their gods enemy simply because that one can help them get exp and cnrs they 'normaly couldnt get.
I just focus on my own char and play him as good as i can and if all would do that i think-and i really mean that- the world off Layonara would be a far better place again.

Just my two cents on a discussion i wasn't planning on wasting a word on:)

Jan A.K.A. Barion

[Zergon]

Grrrr.

Ok now I am getting frustrated.

Re: DMs Spawning stuff on parties to discourage inappropriate groupings

This is not my policy and I don't do it. I believe ooc issues should be handled ooc and IC issues should be handled IC.

If you happen to be talking about a recent ocurance where I talked to someone about this type of thing, I did not spawn any creatures the entire time I was with the party.

I'm not sure if it was the same incident, but I think often it is assumed for some reason that if a party dies somewhere then it must be because the spawn was abnormal, or if the spawn is at all different from what you see every other time that a GM must be maliciously stalking you.

That is usually not the case, and it certainly was not for the recent incident that I was involved in.

I am not talking about any particular ocurance. I'm not trying to say anyone is doing a horrible job, point fingers, or anything else negative.

I am merely offering advice, suggestions, and venting for people who aren't doing it themselves. If I have to be the voice then so be it.

If anyone has a suggestion, comment, or something useful to say, and doesn't want to post it themselves feel free to PM it to me and i'll do it.

Originally Posted by Talan Va'lash
This was due to a glitch caused by something that shouldn't have affected it at all. The playtesting of the areas was done immediately prior to the glitch being inserted.

I'm far too familiar with Murphy's law, but with the size of the PW it is prohibitive to retest "everything" after every change.

I don't think a small glitch being in for 1 day is.. really that bad at all. I've been around the servers and I don't think there is a single one I've been to that updates as regularly as Layo or fixes bugs as quickly.

----

As far as release time and "how done things are," With the volunteer staff that we have, the only way to have released a "polished" version of v3 in one chunk would have been to freeze all updates and attention to the v2 module for many months while we worked on the v3 release and leave the v2 module online. It was decided (and rightly so imho) that this particular path was quite undesirable, so an incremental rollout was decided upon.

This is a good example of how to discourage people from taking the time to post anything... if I was someone else and had gotten that as a reply i would not ever suggest anything again...

another note... had you actually read my post the but was there for 3 days... I believe 2 +1 = 3

Quote: by Zergon
And I do understand but my background in manufacturing/sales/programming/experimenting says you don't test something on mission critical equipment (in this case your server where people play, it causes chaos)

Quote: by Dorganath
True...but this is unfortunately not an endeavor where we have the resources to put things through the paces one would normally do for a commercial product. That may seem like a thin excuse, but if this were our "day job" we would in fact be doing things very, very different.

But we only have so much time, manpower and equipment with which to work.

I understand only so many resources, and time....
But I also understand that players have the same thing and if i'm not mistaken... the players are why you do this.
So you have X amount of resources, and X amount of time (each day) to work on this project. You have 3 servers at least... though your webpage used to boast you were spread across more than that. There are very few people ever on some of these servers (planes for example) and any of them would be well suited as a test server to see how things will be.

Apply...PM Leanthar...or me...or anyone on the team. I might be wrong, but I don't personally remember you stating your interest explicitly before now. IRC, as good of a communication tool as it is for real-time communication is not very good in terms of things we need to remember. PMs or e-mails work far better.

Again, maybe you have, but I'm not remembering it.

I'm MetaPhaze on IRC and you probably don't remember it as it wasn't directed at you... It was more of a question of "how do i join this team"
and the response was about as great as some of these i'm getting now.

This kind of offer is appreciated, but for very valid reasons it is something we will most likely not do. The most significant and hard-line reason for this is that the Layonara modules have been "stolen" at least once in the past when access to the module source was more freely available to those who could contribute (i.e. GM and Project teams). As a result, direct access to the modules is restricted to a select few. This probably will not change.

exactly what i expected to hear... no less...
another example of why some don't post.

Yes, but then many people also wait until things get to a point of frustration before even uttering a single word. I'm suggesting comments before that point.

....
My comments are just getting excuses... no real work getting done.

I believe "control" is the wrong word to use here.  

Control is firmly in Leanthar's hands as the guy who owns the name, the intellectual property and so forth. If he pulls the plug, that's it, and no amount of player input can bring that back if he is done. That does not mean, however, that players are not important.  In fact, they're critical.  Do not think to presume we do not understand that.

Putting down a statement like that only serves to perpetuate an "us vs. them" attitude, when we should all be thinking about just "us".  We're a community, players and GMs alike.  All GMs are players, and we have as much time, energy and emotion invested in this as anyone. As individuals, GMs have the same quirks and failings as anyone else; as a group, we strive to be better than that. Nobody here wants to see the server crumble.

But I will point out that while we try to accommodate as much as possible and as many opinions and suggestions and playing styles as possible, it simply is not possible to accommodate them all.

I think control is the right word.. L wouldn't do this if no one played it.
And since players CONTROL the game market... well.. yep right word

It's also frustrating to have this argument thrown into your face every time a particular individual is upset.

It happens over and over and over. As if people think we aren't listening and we aren't trying our best to make it enjoyable for everyone or like we don't care if we have a community. It's a threat, plain and simple. Do this or you're going to meet an empty community. We hear this a lot.

Look at the most recent poll, there are around 80 people who visit this forum at least a few times a day. I bet the majority of them aren't happy with everything in the world but understand we do our best. Are they all going to mass exodus because things aren't going so well? What about the other individuals who don't even visit these forums. What's their voice?

I'm not disagreeing with the notion that players are critical to a game world, but when's the last time you heard Leanthar say "I am the one that makes this world for you to enjoy, I am the one who pays for it, do as I say or else I'll just ban you. This is my world, these are my desires, if you don't like it then leave." How often do you hear this threat?

By all means keep telling us how important each of you are to the world, as if we don't already know, but why it seems to only come out when someone is upset leaves me with a bad feeling. I just keep wondering why you folks seem to believe that this sort of threat really matters when YOU are the one enjoying the privilege to play here.

We are not paying customers, we are guests in our world. You know how much we've made from advertising since we moved over to the new forum - $2 (Thanks to those people who downloaded Firefox with Google).

This is not a business, if evreyone decides to leave then okay it's just a small group of close friends left paying less server fees? We do this because we want everyone to enjoy the world the way we have, to find the friends and magic and be able to escape just like the way we could. It is certainly not because we are trying to horde in a bunch of cash, because you know what I've learned. This community, for the most part, is not willing to pay for anything despite how much they enjoy it, because they know nothing will change either way, pay or not. We'll just keep doing our best, keep acquiescing to your suggestions and demands and keep building for you, keep trying to respond to these sorts of threads in diplomatic, unwavering monotone.

These are my strong opinions, because I think I read we're all supposed to be able to have them and be able to discuss them. So there's mine. In my capacity as administrator I've held it back, most of the time we do, to remain professional and considerate, but there are so many issues in this thread that have me pretty upset. So many misconceptions. Supposed easy fixes to complex problems. Misunderstandings on processes. I don't have the poise Dorganath does.

Good day,
-orth

Did I forget to mention that i'm abrasive?
Did I forget to mention evil?
oh wait... no i covered that a few posts back..
this is not throwing anything in anyones face... It's my signature.
and i'm not upset.
Did i think for one minute before making my signature?
Why yes I did.... Did i think that it would make someone upset?
Why yes I did.... Did I post it here for that reason?
WHY YES I DID

(OneST8 begins to vent...) <-------- thank you OneST8 very well put

(referring to your post)

Zergon, good luck trying to find a server that is as good as Layo or make one yourself.
 
 I've played enough servers to know there is no other that can match Layo...
 
 
 *cough*
 
 Once you go Layo you can't go back!

there are many servers with a rating higher than layo's
And i've found one where people take their time and RP just as well as on layo, granted the land is way bigger than layonara, less laggy and has the same amount of users online... the world is quite boring... but the players are very experienced RP'ers and very nice.
I expected more from you mr. arguement. where is your aguemetative spirit today you send me more arguement in tells than this....
i'm let down...

(letters from Zergons inbox)

Dude, I've been staying up reading your posts on th Frustrated Thread, and I must say I hope you get added tot he team, you would ROCK the house.

I hope you can open the doors for some serious improvements to Layo.

Keeping going man, I got yer back. (not that you need my help but hey! Go Zergon!)

(name omitted)

PS, Seeing as how you are the first friend I really made on Layo, its cool to see you opening up the door on these issues. Keep it up

Well its nice someone knows what the hell is going on. I just get all upset when things like this happen. I dont want you or (name omitted) to leave Layo. You guys are fun. I hope I see you in game tonight, and I hope (name omitted) can still join me for my lil mining trip tomorrow. Ttyl

Thanks, I'm trying

you could aswell use the example of when (name omitted) me you and (name omitted) went down to the cave of mist and fought all the way down then i started to invis myself to go up out of the cave as and being brought by 4 gms saying i hadn't fought at all which turn to 5 once an other one joined the party. That because i was a mage i could not act as a healer, hum didnt i save you at least twice from dying except once where you died, and Didnt I save (name omitted) once?? Healing you guys while invis and that was when we were hitting the boss at the end of the cave. At that time (name omitted) was level 17 or 18 I was 15 (name omitted) 11 and you I dont know. Well within level limits and over the limites of the server.

Just a few letters from my box...
Again I am not pointing fingers, blah blah blah...
If you want me to say something for you PM me.
the last letter is just ANOTHER example of players complaining about the GM's here...
I am only doing this as I think it's out of hand... but my hands are tied... it's not my world my server or my say... all i can do is use my pen..... keyboard
The pe... keyboard is mightier than the sword.

just a small quote that's been around for a while

If everyone tells you that you have a tail... maybe you should turn around and look.

[AeonBlues]

Zergon, you failed your diplomacy check.  It is not that you point are not valid, it is how they are being presented.  You started off with what sounded to me like an ultimatum, and that is why I was asking you to apologize.

V3 is hardly buggy.  A few kinks, but I am loving layo more now then ever.  If you want see what a buggy server looks like, then try playing on a NWN2 server.  Let me tell you, when it comes to persistent worlds, that program is a  buggy piece of ox dung.  Leanthar made the right decision when he chose to not take us to NWN2.  Now, that might happen some day, but NWN2 is not ready for layonara.

On fear of DMs.  It starts with bad RP.  It starts with players going places they should not, or using a lot of OOC chatter, or trying to exploit the server in some way to their characters advantage.  I started out here on the wrong foot.  I started  out with bad RP and being fearful of DMs.  As a more experienced player, I know now that some of the times I thought a DM was picking on me, it was not the case.  The unexpected event that I was facing was the result of another player doing something like dragging a spawn near a transition and leaving it there.

That being said, there has been definite times when my character was killed by a DM, lets just say punitive spawn.  In my opinion, when ever a  DM makes a punitive spawn, there should be follow up.  PMs and messages on the forum to explain what happened and  why.  I have heard players sending me tells worried about bored DMs.  I love bored DMs.  Some times your character will die because a DM added a critter you were not expecting.  I have heard about a character being killed by a DM, and thought, well if that guy was not just running as fast as he could from one encounter to the next, maybe he would have formulated a strategy.  But that paladin runs around like berserker on cat nip.

Another thing that happens, is that a very high level character comes through an area while invisible.  Then your character walks through and gets greased.  An inexperienced player, will suspect that a DM killed them, and become fearful of DMs.  

As far as our topaz expedition goes...

The only fatality that we experienced was from a friendly fire death magic spell.  So, nothing too off balanced was thrown at us.

Nope, some invisible yahoo was blocking me from getting started on the stair ramp.  I never saw that mysterious spawn.  I have never seen a level 20 character there either, so I am still not convinced that what ever it was, was a DM spawn.  It could have just been a level 20 spawn, hmm.

AeonBlues