I'm sorry to hear you are dissatisfied. If I may take a few moments to respond to your comments and perhaps you can consider them as you consider whether or not to continue spending time here.
I'm not sure what is meant by the "forced" vs. "stressed". Without going into a deep semantic discussion or detailed specifics, let me just put forth that the rules we have regarding RP (and I assume that is what you mean by "forced") were not always as strict as they are now, but their current state in most cases is the result of a few players taking things way too far. Some of that is a symptom of a growing player base. Some of it is a lack of maturity. When numerous warnings, both public and private were not sufficient to curb certain things which were not in keeping with the spirit of this world, we had to clamp down. Perhaps we will relax things again, but the community has to keep certain things in mind as we do. Just as some people hide behind PvP rules, so too do some take to stretching the umbrella of RP to cover as much as possible, and sometimes that goes too far.
A) I need to say something to the whole group that is out of character to help someone new or solve another issue.Rather than typing a tell to each individual player i use the // and tell everyone in earshot and we all do this to communicate for a bit then go back to rp-ing..... Problem being... DM spawns hell on us killing some if not most... i believe everyone has seen this a time or two some not knowing what happened or why... some getting soul strands... to me... just unnecessaryand sucks the fun out of gaming... though lots of you will argue about immersion and things that i don't have problems with.
B) XP shouldn't really matter on an RP server so taking someone where they couldn't normally go shouldn't be an issue if the situation was RP'd out and they are willing to take the risk. (yes i see the room for abuse i'm not retarded, just my opinion) In real life i go places and do things i shouldn't NORMALLY do but re-read B) ... willing to take the risk
Please keep it RP and IC as much as possiblenot everyone has a way to communicate with each other than the words on the screen and they don't have irc icq msn aim yahoo xfire or any other program like that and even if they did trying to get a point across would still be hell to accomplish quickly. And being punished for such things is not my idea of fun.But there is always a time when everyone needs to talk ooc like it or not.
This is valid, and while I understand a system of permanent death is not as appreciated by everyone, it is something that has been a part of this world for years now and it's known up-front. Overall, the system works pretty well in the capacity for which it is intended. Having said that, it would be interesting to hear what other systems to "discourage stupidity" have been used successfully.
This cannot and should not be blamed on V3. There were plenty of avoidable and meaningless permanent deaths in V2 as well, many of which stemmed from a period of time where we suspended the current Soul Strand system. To be more specific, many players established a pattern of behavior that was reckless and dangerous knowing that there was no real risk. A week into the suspension of Soul Strand loss, I lost count of how many times people asked me to bring it all back.
Now, V3 has its warts and its growing pains surely, but it hasn't been in place even a month yet. I was not yet here at the start of V2, but I can say with complete certainty that how V2 was when I started and the V2 that was brought to a close at the end of February were two very, very different things. There were bugs, yes. The servers were far, far, far less stable than they are now. The point is, V3 will improve, and it will do so with constructive feedback from the community. That is very much a key element to Layonara's constantly evolving state. I don't think that can be stressed enough.
OK, as the guy who handles these requests, I have both stated and followed through with a degree of leniency due to losses that are the result of bugs in V3. For a time, I even considered suspending the loss of Soul Strands during this introductory period so that people would not be afraid to help us test, but the loss rate and reporting of such did not seem to warrant it. So please, do not make assumptions that we don't care about bugs or losses due to bugs. In fact, even in the standard policies, losses due to bugs are valid reasons for reimbursement.
I will, however, contribute one other piece of information. The policies for reimbursements used to be more relaxed, but again, because they were abused and their limits pushed by people, we had to tighten them down and establish some consistent standards which I do try very hard to maintain.
Yes, they are tested...and which Krandor crypts do you mean? Because they were just updated within the last week. The previous Krandor Crypts were still the same from V2. The V3 version was reviewed by our lead balancer and I tested them myself up until the point where my test character could not get past a door that required somone to pick the lock. The V2 version often had a "bring a cleric" stigma to it, but that was by design.
If it was V3, we would like to know specific things about it, rather than simply "seems untested". This is very vague and does not do much to improve things for anyone, which is ultimately the goal.
And on testing. As this is a volunteer effort, and as our player-base is extremely diverse with characters to match, it simply is not practical to test things out in the variety of combinations that we have to support in the time which we have available. We couldn't hope to test in a month what our players could test in less than a single week. You should understand this by your background. And so, we make our best efforts based on experience and whatever testing we can manage, then we observe how it works in a live setting. If things need to be changed, they are.
We cannot currently do any better than that.This is absolutely untrue. In fact, I'd like to hear more detail about what people do not think is quite right about this world. I hear about so many people who apparently hold back their opinons and valid observations. There's absolutely nothing wrong with constructive input from anyone, whether they are a brand new player or a long-time veteran. I see more possibilities in your message here, but it's pretty low on details. We need those details if things are to improve.
Having said that, we do not act on or implement all suggestions we receive, but that does not mean they are ignored, simply that they may not be a proper fit for Layonara or that we have not been able to make them happen yet. But we have suggestion and discussion forums here for a reason, and the list of community-suggested enhancements to the world is a very long list indeed.
OK, several things here:1) I hope you do keep the world in mind, and I don't mind saying that we are already working on a review of where CNR is, where it should be and what is between the CNR and characters. This is a work-in-progress and it is happening. Balance is a process.
2) On GM's "scolding" higher level players for helping lower-level players...what I think both parties need to understand here is that again, there is a very high potential (and yes, history) of abuse of the line between justifyable RP and XP dragging. This has happened way too much over the years and we've heard tons of excuses about why it was thought to be OK. Higher-level characters helping lower-level ones is OK if done responsibly and with a mind for the spirit of the server. If said lower-level characters hang way back or flit around invisibly contributing little to nothing to the group, then that's not helping, that's dragging, and it's obvious. It's a fuzzy grey line, I agree, but it needs to be handled responsibly by all involved. On the chance that the "scolding" was a bit more, read on. Well, read on anyway.
3) As I said, it was considered, and even approved, to shut off Soul Strand loss for a time while we test things out. So far, since V3 has been released, there have only been maybe 2 or 3 V3 bug-related requests of this nature and unless I am remembering incorrectly, they have been approved. Since the volume has been low, there has been no need to turn off the system, and I am continuing to handle them on a case-by-case basis and even being more lenient to the possiblity of bug-related losses during this time. We are not cruel, heartless or sadistic. We do understand the desire to not lose characters, and we have, in fact, resurrected at least one or more permanently dead characters who lost their 10th soul strand due to a situation that should not have occurred. And I am still willing to consider doing this in a controlled way if it seems logical to do so. So far, however, it does not based on what I am seeing.Though you seem to have made your decision, and I do respect that, I hope at least if you read this you'll consider what has been said and perhaps it will dispel some assumptions, rumors or other negative perceptions. If not for you, then perhaps for someone else.
I do want to address one other point specifically:This concerned me more than anything else you have said in this entire post. I'd like to know more about your perspective as to why people fear GMs. While I know that "us vs. them" idea is out there and has been out there, we do try to keep things as open and fair as possible, though we don't see everything, and if one or more GMs are acting inappropriately (as either their characters or as GMs) then such things need to be addressed. GMs have to maintain a higher adherence to the standards of this community, not a more relaxed one.
And to anyone else who may be reading this, if there are questions in your minds that perhaps lead to these fears, then I encourage you to use the "Ask a Gamemaster" forum, in case there are just unknowns that are leading to fears. Alright, well it's very late for me now, and so I need to end this. Do consider what I have written and feel free to ask for more clarification.I'd also encourage you, with your stated background, to consider applying for the Project Team when applications come back around. We can always use talented people who are willing to devote time and effort into making Layonara better.
Zergon: One of the painful lessens that I have learned in life is that ultimatums only enrage people and make them feel disrespected. Time and time again the DM staff has asked for our patients with the V3 release. They have made enormous efforts to not only build V3, but also resolve the bugs just as quickly as they can. Need I remind you that no one is getting paid to do this work? Leanthar has stated over and over again that if areas are not balanced, that we should report them as bug reports and they will be reviewed and changed.
As far as the "DM's scolding higher level characters" issue... well that is a complex issue. Perhaps it would have been better for you to bring this subject up in a constructive manner on the forums or IRC. I am more to blame then the character in question. I asked him to help my character, and a couple of others get into a dangerous area to harvest a CNR that my character needed as a spell component. What ended up happening, is between point A and point B we kept running into other adventures that wanted to join up with us in the interest of having fun. The end result is that a bunch of characters who were not quite high enough level to be in the area we were in, ended up tagging along. I didn't suggest we should exclude anyone because I didn't think anyone was so low in level, and still don't, that they should be excluded from an outing on the West server. Also every character was very active, doing everything they possibly could to help with the encounters we faced.
Obviously the DMs that peeked in on us, saw what they felt to be a bad RP situation in progress. The high level character was pulled out of the party, and talked to by one or more DMs. Another option the DMs could have used would be to spawn some crazy monsters on us, that wiped out the entire party and brought the soul mother howling and screaming left and right. I think that pulling the high level character out and having a OOC conversation was a healthy way to deal with this situation and maintain a good vibe of all the players that were involved.
Zergon, I encourage you to re think what you are saying here, and make an apology to the people that work so hard, so that we can have so much fun playing a game.AeonBlues
Now I got you on this one for sure.And many people that went with me can vouch for my honesty here.We went into the new Krandor crypts 2 days after it was changed to see what was in there.The spawns had obviously NOT been tested.And yes you had to pick the lock... Pixie away! You could walk around for hours in there and have a constant supply of skeletons to kill... sometimes even overwhelming numbers of them.Down below you could do the same thing with zombies and that nearly cost me, just taking a look. (curiosity killed the cat) Again I pose the question... are they tested... and how... and to what extent.Cause in all my years of programming, that IS NOT TESTED.Sorry but i'm a bit harsh on programmers/scripters in general. The next day it was fixed... but my point, I think, has been made.
This was due to a glitch caused by something that shouldn't have affected it at all. The playtesting of the areas was done immediately prior to the glitch being inserted.I'm far too familiar with Murphy's law, but with the size of the PW it is prohibitive to retest "everything" after every change.I don't think a small glitch being in for 1 day is.. really that bad at all. I've been around the servers and I don't think there is a single one I've been to that updates as regularly as Layo or fixes bugs as quickly.----As far as release time and "how done things are," With the volunteer staff that we have, the only way to have released a "polished" version of v3 in one chunk would have been to freeze all updates and attention to the v2 module for many months while we worked on the v3 release and leave the v2 module online. It was decided (and rightly so imho) that this particular path was quite undesirable, so an incremental rollout was decided upon.----Re: CNR locationsAs I understand it these are going to be re-jiggered (technical term) to once again appropriately match the CR of their areas. However, CNR placement matching encounter CR is not as critical as say... getting the haks working so people can log into the game, making sure all transitions connect properly or fixing possible ambush spawns. So it's a few rungs down the ladder from top priority.
I'm far too familiar with Murphy's law, but with the size of the PW it is prohibitive to retest "everything" after every change.I don't think a small glitch being in for 1 day is.. really that bad at all. I've been around the servers and I don't think there is a single one I've been to that updates as regularly as Layo or fixes bugs as quickly.
Players control your world.You may think it's yours but when the players leave, you control the empty server.
I think that the low volume of requests for SS reimbursements may stem from the "must have a GM/WL witness to even consider requesting" is twarting the requests. And then, that falls through at times. After seeing people get criticized for wasting the Team's time with requests that don't have a legitimate witness(es), people think several times before posting, if they ever do.
Second point, how do people know it is a reportable bug if it is a spawn? They may just think that it was ment to be and take their loss.
As far as fearing GM's...maybe fear is not the right word, but getting bashed in the forums publically tends to turn people off and have a sense of withdrawal and seperation from the GM's. When a GM comes across as "this is how it is and I don't care what people think" or the "don't like it, don't join" attitude, it makes people shy away from expressing their thoughts on it. And not just to the GM involved, but to all GM's. Some folks, I am sure, feel that if they dispute one GM, then they have just taken on the whole GM team.
Maybe it's the years of programming in my blood (19 years) but if you were selling layonara to someone your company would have flopped.In my opinion:Released too early
Now I got you on this one for sure.And many people that went with me can vouch for my honesty here.We went into the new Krandor crypts 2 days after it was changed to see what was in there.The spawns had obviously NOT been tested.And yes you had to pick the lock... Pixie away!You could walk around for hours in there and have a constant supply of skeletons to kill... sometimes even overwhelming numbers of them.Down below you could do the same thing with zombies and that nearly cost me, just taking a look. (curiosity killed the cat)Again I pose the question... are they tested... and how... and to what extent.Cause in all my years of programming, that IS NOT TESTED.Sorry but i'm a bit harsh on programmers/scripters in general.The next day it was fixed... but my point, I think, has been made.
And I do understand but my background in manufacturing/sales/programming/experimenting says you don't test something on mission critical equipment (in this case your server where people play, it causes chaos)
My advice... if someone is willing to help have them apply... why wait... find out what they can do... test them... and get em started. I have volunteered to help.What is stopping me.Some Red Tape... I think... dunno... even on IRC i've voiced my willingness to help.
I have many many (15) computers here i could run tests on and i'm sure there would be many volunteer players to log on and test it without damaging their real characters, and wasting more of your time.
I believe everyone is voicing an opinion about now... I am.
Doesn't affect me..BRING BACK ERK!
Fearing GM/DM's:Just back to the issue with OOC and spawning hell on us for doing it.Also with the xp soaking issue.And perhaps spawning hell on people for bringing a low level to Dregar or other area's they "shouldn't be" when half the party (if any of the party) was too afraid to ask "// anyone here less than level 8?" or even by neglect... spawning hell on people with a permanent death system is by no means a good decision in my opinion. again opinion.Makes for angry players.
Again, I would love to help but am put on "hold" by red tape... (when applications come back around)
Again, Test Serveranother handy tool, CVS
Just a note from a few players.Do you have any characters? I see on your profile N/Afar too many times I don't think a small glitch being in for 1 day is....maybe if you were Erk you wouldn't agree with that
That is a very true statement. I'm not downplaying the people that pay the server fees, develop the world, etc at all. The true fact is it's the players that make the server. Have no players? Why pay the fees and develop for it? Your player base make or breaks the game. We are the ones that keep the server active. And it's arrogant to assume that no matter how much work goes into the world that there will always be people to play it.
That is a very true statement. I'm not downplaying the people that pay the server fees, develop the world, etc at all.
The true fact is it's the players that make the server.
Have no players? Why pay the fees and develop for it? Your player base make or breaks the game.
We are the ones that keep the server active. And it's arrogant to assume that no matter how much work goes into the world that there will always be people to play it.
No, the people who foot the bill every month for server fees are the ones who control the world. When they leave, the players uh, yeah...
Until people can feel safe about bringing their concerns about the server to these boards this fear will always be here.
Re: DMs Spawning stuff on parties to discourage inappropriate groupingsThis is not my policy and I don't do it. I believe ooc issues should be handled ooc and IC issues should be handled IC.If you happen to be talking about a recent ocurance where I talked to someone about this type of thing, I did not spawn any creatures the entire time I was with the party.I'm not sure if it was the same incident, but I think often it is assumed for some reason that if a party dies somewhere then it must be because the spawn was abnormal, or if the spawn is at all different from what you see every other time that a GM must be maliciously stalking you.That is usually not the case, and it certainly was not for the recent incident that I was involved in.
Originally Posted by Talan Va'lashThis was due to a glitch caused by something that shouldn't have affected it at all. The playtesting of the areas was done immediately prior to the glitch being inserted.I'm far too familiar with Murphy's law, but with the size of the PW it is prohibitive to retest "everything" after every change.I don't think a small glitch being in for 1 day is.. really that bad at all. I've been around the servers and I don't think there is a single one I've been to that updates as regularly as Layo or fixes bugs as quickly.----As far as release time and "how done things are," With the volunteer staff that we have, the only way to have released a "polished" version of v3 in one chunk would have been to freeze all updates and attention to the v2 module for many months while we worked on the v3 release and leave the v2 module online. It was decided (and rightly so imho) that this particular path was quite undesirable, so an incremental rollout was decided upon.
Quote: by ZergonAnd I do understand but my background in manufacturing/sales/programming/experimenting says you don't test something on mission critical equipment (in this case your server where people play, it causes chaos)
Quote: by DorganathTrue...but this is unfortunately not an endeavor where we have the resources to put things through the paces one would normally do for a commercial product. That may seem like a thin excuse, but if this were our "day job" we would in fact be doing things very, very different.But we only have so much time, manpower and equipment with which to work.
Apply...PM Leanthar...or me...or anyone on the team. I might be wrong, but I don't personally remember you stating your interest explicitly before now. IRC, as good of a communication tool as it is for real-time communication is not very good in terms of things we need to remember. PMs or e-mails work far better.Again, maybe you have, but I'm not remembering it.
This kind of offer is appreciated, but for very valid reasons it is something we will most likely not do. The most significant and hard-line reason for this is that the Layonara modules have been "stolen" at least once in the past when access to the module source was more freely available to those who could contribute (i.e. GM and Project teams). As a result, direct access to the modules is restricted to a select few. This probably will not change.Quoteexactly what i expected to hear... no less...another example of why some don't post.QuoteYes, but then many people also wait until things get to a point of frustration before even uttering a single word. I'm suggesting comments before that point.....My comments are just getting excuses... no real work getting done.Quote from: DorganathI believe "control" is the wrong word to use here. Control is firmly in Leanthar's hands as the guy who owns the name, the intellectual property and so forth. If he pulls the plug, that's it, and no amount of player input can bring that back if he is done. That does not mean, however, that players are not important. In fact, they're critical. Do not think to presume we do not understand that.Putting down a statement like that only serves to perpetuate an "us vs. them" attitude, when we should all be thinking about just "us". We're a community, players and GMs alike. All GMs are players, and we have as much time, energy and emotion invested in this as anyone. As individuals, GMs have the same quirks and failings as anyone else; as a group, we strive to be better than that. Nobody here wants to see the server crumble.But I will point out that while we try to accommodate as much as possible and as many opinions and suggestions and playing styles as possible, it simply is not possible to accommodate them all.I think control is the right word.. L wouldn't do this if no one played it.And since players CONTROL the game market... well.. yep right wordQuote from: orthIt's also frustrating to have this argument thrown into your face every time a particular individual is upset.It happens over and over and over. As if people think we aren't listening and we aren't trying our best to make it enjoyable for everyone or like we don't care if we have a community. It's a threat, plain and simple. Do this or you're going to meet an empty community. We hear this a lot.Look at the most recent poll, there are around 80 people who visit this forum at least a few times a day. I bet the majority of them aren't happy with everything in the world but understand we do our best. Are they all going to mass exodus because things aren't going so well? What about the other individuals who don't even visit these forums. What's their voice? I'm not disagreeing with the notion that players are critical to a game world, but when's the last time you heard Leanthar say "I am the one that makes this world for you to enjoy, I am the one who pays for it, do as I say or else I'll just ban you. This is my world, these are my desires, if you don't like it then leave." How often do you hear this threat?By all means keep telling us how important each of you are to the world, as if we don't already know, but why it seems to only come out when someone is upset leaves me with a bad feeling. I just keep wondering why you folks seem to believe that this sort of threat really matters when YOU are the one enjoying the privilege to play here. We are not paying customers, we are guests in our world. You know how much we've made from advertising since we moved over to the new forum - $2 (Thanks to those people who downloaded Firefox with Google). This is not a business, if evreyone decides to leave then okay it's just a small group of close friends left paying less server fees? We do this because we want everyone to enjoy the world the way we have, to find the friends and magic and be able to escape just like the way we could. It is certainly not because we are trying to horde in a bunch of cash, because you know what I've learned. This community, for the most part, is not willing to pay for anything despite how much they enjoy it, because they know nothing will change either way, pay or not. We'll just keep doing our best, keep acquiescing to your suggestions and demands and keep building for you, keep trying to respond to these sorts of threads in diplomatic, unwavering monotone.These are my strong opinions, because I think I read we're all supposed to be able to have them and be able to discuss them. So there's mine. In my capacity as administrator I've held it back, most of the time we do, to remain professional and considerate, but there are so many issues in this thread that have me pretty upset. So many misconceptions. Supposed easy fixes to complex problems. Misunderstandings on processes. I don't have the poise Dorganath does.Good day,-orthDid I forget to mention that i'm abrasive?Did I forget to mention evil?oh wait... no i covered that a few posts back..this is not throwing anything in anyones face... It's my signature.and i'm not upset.Did i think for one minute before making my signature?Why yes I did.... Did i think that it would make someone upset?Why yes I did.... Did I post it here for that reason?WHY YES I DID(OneST8 begins to vent...) <-------- thank you OneST8 very well put(referring to your post)Quote from: Witch HunterZergon, good luck trying to find a server that is as good as Layo or make one yourself. I've played enough servers to know there is no other that can match Layo... *cough* Once you go Layo you can't go back!there are many servers with a rating higher than layo'sAnd i've found one where people take their time and RP just as well as on layo, granted the land is way bigger than layonara, less laggy and has the same amount of users online... the world is quite boring... but the players are very experienced RP'ers and very nice.I expected more from you mr. arguement. where is your aguemetative spirit today you send me more arguement in tells than this....i'm let down...(letters from Zergons inbox)QuoteDude, I've been staying up reading your posts on th Frustrated Thread, and I must say I hope you get added tot he team, you would ROCK the house.I hope you can open the doors for some serious improvements to Layo.Keeping going man, I got yer back. (not that you need my help but hey! Go Zergon!)(name omitted)PS, Seeing as how you are the first friend I really made on Layo, its cool to see you opening up the door on these issues. Keep it upQuoteWell its nice someone knows what the hell is going on. I just get all upset when things like this happen. I dont want you or (name omitted) to leave Layo. You guys are fun. I hope I see you in game tonight, and I hope (name omitted) can still join me for my lil mining trip tomorrow. TtylThanks, I'm tryingQuoteyou could aswell use the example of when (name omitted) me you and (name omitted) went down to the cave of mist and fought all the way down then i started to invis myself to go up out of the cave as and being brought by 4 gms saying i hadn't fought at all which turn to 5 once an other one joined the party. That because i was a mage i could not act as a healer, hum didnt i save you at least twice from dying except once where you died, and Didnt I save (name omitted) once?? Healing you guys while invis and that was when we were hitting the boss at the end of the cave. At that time (name omitted) was level 17 or 18 I was 15 (name omitted) 11 and you I dont know. Well within level limits and over the limites of the server.Just a few letters from my box...Again I am not pointing fingers, blah blah blah...If you want me to say something for you PM me.the last letter is just ANOTHER example of players complaining about the GM's here...I am only doing this as I think it's out of hand... but my hands are tied... it's not my world my server or my say... all i can do is use my pen..... keyboardThe pe... keyboard is mightier than the sword.just a small quote that's been around for a whileIf everyone tells you that you have a tail... maybe you should turn around and look.
exactly what i expected to hear... no less...another example of why some don't post.QuoteYes, but then many people also wait until things get to a point of frustration before even uttering a single word. I'm suggesting comments before that point.....My comments are just getting excuses... no real work getting done.Quote from: DorganathI believe "control" is the wrong word to use here. Control is firmly in Leanthar's hands as the guy who owns the name, the intellectual property and so forth. If he pulls the plug, that's it, and no amount of player input can bring that back if he is done. That does not mean, however, that players are not important. In fact, they're critical. Do not think to presume we do not understand that.Putting down a statement like that only serves to perpetuate an "us vs. them" attitude, when we should all be thinking about just "us". We're a community, players and GMs alike. All GMs are players, and we have as much time, energy and emotion invested in this as anyone. As individuals, GMs have the same quirks and failings as anyone else; as a group, we strive to be better than that. Nobody here wants to see the server crumble.But I will point out that while we try to accommodate as much as possible and as many opinions and suggestions and playing styles as possible, it simply is not possible to accommodate them all.I think control is the right word.. L wouldn't do this if no one played it.And since players CONTROL the game market... well.. yep right wordQuote from: orthIt's also frustrating to have this argument thrown into your face every time a particular individual is upset.It happens over and over and over. As if people think we aren't listening and we aren't trying our best to make it enjoyable for everyone or like we don't care if we have a community. It's a threat, plain and simple. Do this or you're going to meet an empty community. We hear this a lot.Look at the most recent poll, there are around 80 people who visit this forum at least a few times a day. I bet the majority of them aren't happy with everything in the world but understand we do our best. Are they all going to mass exodus because things aren't going so well? What about the other individuals who don't even visit these forums. What's their voice? I'm not disagreeing with the notion that players are critical to a game world, but when's the last time you heard Leanthar say "I am the one that makes this world for you to enjoy, I am the one who pays for it, do as I say or else I'll just ban you. This is my world, these are my desires, if you don't like it then leave." How often do you hear this threat?By all means keep telling us how important each of you are to the world, as if we don't already know, but why it seems to only come out when someone is upset leaves me with a bad feeling. I just keep wondering why you folks seem to believe that this sort of threat really matters when YOU are the one enjoying the privilege to play here. We are not paying customers, we are guests in our world. You know how much we've made from advertising since we moved over to the new forum - $2 (Thanks to those people who downloaded Firefox with Google). This is not a business, if evreyone decides to leave then okay it's just a small group of close friends left paying less server fees? We do this because we want everyone to enjoy the world the way we have, to find the friends and magic and be able to escape just like the way we could. It is certainly not because we are trying to horde in a bunch of cash, because you know what I've learned. This community, for the most part, is not willing to pay for anything despite how much they enjoy it, because they know nothing will change either way, pay or not. We'll just keep doing our best, keep acquiescing to your suggestions and demands and keep building for you, keep trying to respond to these sorts of threads in diplomatic, unwavering monotone.These are my strong opinions, because I think I read we're all supposed to be able to have them and be able to discuss them. So there's mine. In my capacity as administrator I've held it back, most of the time we do, to remain professional and considerate, but there are so many issues in this thread that have me pretty upset. So many misconceptions. Supposed easy fixes to complex problems. Misunderstandings on processes. I don't have the poise Dorganath does.Good day,-orthDid I forget to mention that i'm abrasive?Did I forget to mention evil?oh wait... no i covered that a few posts back..this is not throwing anything in anyones face... It's my signature.and i'm not upset.Did i think for one minute before making my signature?Why yes I did.... Did i think that it would make someone upset?Why yes I did.... Did I post it here for that reason?WHY YES I DID(OneST8 begins to vent...) <-------- thank you OneST8 very well put(referring to your post)Quote from: Witch HunterZergon, good luck trying to find a server that is as good as Layo or make one yourself. I've played enough servers to know there is no other that can match Layo... *cough* Once you go Layo you can't go back!there are many servers with a rating higher than layo'sAnd i've found one where people take their time and RP just as well as on layo, granted the land is way bigger than layonara, less laggy and has the same amount of users online... the world is quite boring... but the players are very experienced RP'ers and very nice.I expected more from you mr. arguement. where is your aguemetative spirit today you send me more arguement in tells than this....i'm let down...(letters from Zergons inbox)QuoteDude, I've been staying up reading your posts on th Frustrated Thread, and I must say I hope you get added tot he team, you would ROCK the house.I hope you can open the doors for some serious improvements to Layo.Keeping going man, I got yer back. (not that you need my help but hey! Go Zergon!)(name omitted)PS, Seeing as how you are the first friend I really made on Layo, its cool to see you opening up the door on these issues. Keep it upQuoteWell its nice someone knows what the hell is going on. I just get all upset when things like this happen. I dont want you or (name omitted) to leave Layo. You guys are fun. I hope I see you in game tonight, and I hope (name omitted) can still join me for my lil mining trip tomorrow. TtylThanks, I'm tryingQuoteyou could aswell use the example of when (name omitted) me you and (name omitted) went down to the cave of mist and fought all the way down then i started to invis myself to go up out of the cave as and being brought by 4 gms saying i hadn't fought at all which turn to 5 once an other one joined the party. That because i was a mage i could not act as a healer, hum didnt i save you at least twice from dying except once where you died, and Didnt I save (name omitted) once?? Healing you guys while invis and that was when we were hitting the boss at the end of the cave. At that time (name omitted) was level 17 or 18 I was 15 (name omitted) 11 and you I dont know. Well within level limits and over the limites of the server.Just a few letters from my box...Again I am not pointing fingers, blah blah blah...If you want me to say something for you PM me.the last letter is just ANOTHER example of players complaining about the GM's here...I am only doing this as I think it's out of hand... but my hands are tied... it's not my world my server or my say... all i can do is use my pen..... keyboardThe pe... keyboard is mightier than the sword.just a small quote that's been around for a whileIf everyone tells you that you have a tail... maybe you should turn around and look.
Yes, but then many people also wait until things get to a point of frustration before even uttering a single word. I'm suggesting comments before that point.
I believe "control" is the wrong word to use here. Control is firmly in Leanthar's hands as the guy who owns the name, the intellectual property and so forth. If he pulls the plug, that's it, and no amount of player input can bring that back if he is done. That does not mean, however, that players are not important. In fact, they're critical. Do not think to presume we do not understand that.Putting down a statement like that only serves to perpetuate an "us vs. them" attitude, when we should all be thinking about just "us". We're a community, players and GMs alike. All GMs are players, and we have as much time, energy and emotion invested in this as anyone. As individuals, GMs have the same quirks and failings as anyone else; as a group, we strive to be better than that. Nobody here wants to see the server crumble.But I will point out that while we try to accommodate as much as possible and as many opinions and suggestions and playing styles as possible, it simply is not possible to accommodate them all.
It's also frustrating to have this argument thrown into your face every time a particular individual is upset.It happens over and over and over. As if people think we aren't listening and we aren't trying our best to make it enjoyable for everyone or like we don't care if we have a community. It's a threat, plain and simple. Do this or you're going to meet an empty community. We hear this a lot.Look at the most recent poll, there are around 80 people who visit this forum at least a few times a day. I bet the majority of them aren't happy with everything in the world but understand we do our best. Are they all going to mass exodus because things aren't going so well? What about the other individuals who don't even visit these forums. What's their voice? I'm not disagreeing with the notion that players are critical to a game world, but when's the last time you heard Leanthar say "I am the one that makes this world for you to enjoy, I am the one who pays for it, do as I say or else I'll just ban you. This is my world, these are my desires, if you don't like it then leave." How often do you hear this threat?By all means keep telling us how important each of you are to the world, as if we don't already know, but why it seems to only come out when someone is upset leaves me with a bad feeling. I just keep wondering why you folks seem to believe that this sort of threat really matters when YOU are the one enjoying the privilege to play here. We are not paying customers, we are guests in our world. You know how much we've made from advertising since we moved over to the new forum - $2 (Thanks to those people who downloaded Firefox with Google). This is not a business, if evreyone decides to leave then okay it's just a small group of close friends left paying less server fees? We do this because we want everyone to enjoy the world the way we have, to find the friends and magic and be able to escape just like the way we could. It is certainly not because we are trying to horde in a bunch of cash, because you know what I've learned. This community, for the most part, is not willing to pay for anything despite how much they enjoy it, because they know nothing will change either way, pay or not. We'll just keep doing our best, keep acquiescing to your suggestions and demands and keep building for you, keep trying to respond to these sorts of threads in diplomatic, unwavering monotone.These are my strong opinions, because I think I read we're all supposed to be able to have them and be able to discuss them. So there's mine. In my capacity as administrator I've held it back, most of the time we do, to remain professional and considerate, but there are so many issues in this thread that have me pretty upset. So many misconceptions. Supposed easy fixes to complex problems. Misunderstandings on processes. I don't have the poise Dorganath does.Good day,-orth
Zergon, good luck trying to find a server that is as good as Layo or make one yourself. I've played enough servers to know there is no other that can match Layo... *cough* Once you go Layo you can't go back!
Dude, I've been staying up reading your posts on th Frustrated Thread, and I must say I hope you get added tot he team, you would ROCK the house.I hope you can open the doors for some serious improvements to Layo.Keeping going man, I got yer back. (not that you need my help but hey! Go Zergon!)(name omitted)PS, Seeing as how you are the first friend I really made on Layo, its cool to see you opening up the door on these issues. Keep it up
Well its nice someone knows what the hell is going on. I just get all upset when things like this happen. I dont want you or (name omitted) to leave Layo. You guys are fun. I hope I see you in game tonight, and I hope (name omitted) can still join me for my lil mining trip tomorrow. Ttyl
you could aswell use the example of when (name omitted) me you and (name omitted) went down to the cave of mist and fought all the way down then i started to invis myself to go up out of the cave as and being brought by 4 gms saying i hadn't fought at all which turn to 5 once an other one joined the party. That because i was a mage i could not act as a healer, hum didnt i save you at least twice from dying except once where you died, and Didnt I save (name omitted) once?? Healing you guys while invis and that was when we were hitting the boss at the end of the cave. At that time (name omitted) was level 17 or 18 I was 15 (name omitted) 11 and you I dont know. Well within level limits and over the limites of the server.